Green Lantern (Hal) & Martian Manhunter Vs. Quasar & Nova Prime

Started by Warlord8 pages

Originally posted by Desaad
"Not a character trait"? What?

Dr. Light has demonstrated the ability to control things that lie outside the electromagnetic spectrum. That immediately means that he can control more types of energy than can Quasar. If you're trying to argue that the meaning of the electromagnetic spectrum changes between universes --- absurd, since they are using a real world concept.

Unless you've got examples of Dr. Light specifically saying he can only control energies within the electromagnetic spectrum while he simultaneously controls GL energies. Because earlier in his career he COULDN'T control GL energies, despite desperately trying to/wanting to.

Are you not understanding what I'm saying, or being purposefully obtuse here?

Dr Light has SPECIFICALLY stated that controls THE LIGHT aspect of other energies. ON PANEL, STATED how else can I make it clear to you. The light aspect. If by controlling the LIGHT he can control other types of energies too then other light manipulators can do it too. Simple as that.

We are not disagreeing in the GL energy definition. Both we are saying it varies by the writer

Originally posted by Warlord
Dr Light has SPECIFICALLY stated that controls THE LIGHT aspect of other energies. ON PANEL, STATED how else can I make it clear to you. The light aspect. If by controlling the LIGHT he can control other types of energies too then other light manipulators can do it too. Simple as that.

We are not disagreeing in the GL energy definition. Both we are saying it varies by the writer

So basically he controls mid frequency photons?

yes light particles. unless retconed an I don't know it

The last time Light controlled GL energy was before the Johns retcon, iirc. Could be wrong, though.

Originally posted by Warlord
yes light particles. unless retconed an I don't know it
Well if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

Hell Nova could probably do it as well since he can absorb/manipulate photons.

Pretty much.

Ok then I'm almost comfortable saying team 2 wins something like 6/10. The only hang up I have is I don't know exactly how fire affect MM. Is it heat in general I.e. Superman heat vision or does it specifically have to be flames/fire?

Originally posted by dmills
Ok then I'm almost comfortable saying team 2 wins something like 6/10. The only hang up I have is I don't know exactly how fire affect MM. Is it heat in general I.e. Superman heat vision or does it specifically have to be flames/fire?

it's inconsistent. last i heard, it was flames of intent or passion that could only hurt him. he could stroll through napalm for example, but an pyrokinetic's fire could hurt him.

Yeah.. I remember a napalm weapon used on him

Originally posted by dmills
Well if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

Hell Nova could probably do it as well since he can absorb/manipulate photons.

Haha, 'it's game set match' because you desperately need it to be.

Dr. Light's abilities allow him to control energies outside of the electromagnetic spectrum. The fact that he has, in the past, controlled Green Lantern energy is in no way evidence that Quasar could do the same. The fact that he has, in the past, been UNABLE to control Green Lantern energies as well, despite having a DEMONSTRABLY wider and more expansive control of energy types than does Quasar, is likewise not indicative of Quasar's ability to control GL energy.

With that in mind, Quasar's main trick, and only hope, is very likely to be ineffective. Maybe not, maybe so, depends on the writer...but generally speaking, no.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's inconsistent. last i heard, it was flames of intent or passion that could only hurt him. he could stroll through napalm for example, but an pyrokinetic's fire could hurt him.

That was only ever true for, like, an issue of Joe Kelly's JLA run.

Immediately forgotten about and ignored. He's just got his normal fire weakness.

Originally posted by Desaad
Haha, 'it's game set match' because you desperately need it to be.

Dr. Light's abilities allow him to control energies outside of the electromagnetic spectrum. The fact that he has, in the past, controlled Green Lantern energy is in no way evidence that Quasar could do the same. The fact that he has, in the past, been UNABLE to control Green Lantern energies as well, despite having a DEMONSTRABLY wider and more expansive control of energy types than does Quasar, is likewise not indicative of Quasar's ability to control GL energy.

With that in mind, Quasar's main trick, and only hope, is very likely to be ineffective. Maybe not, maybe so, depends on the writer...but generally speaking, no.

Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

Now regarding your larger point. I made the point about photons since it was mentioned that Dr. Light controlled the 'light aspect' of seemingly exotic energies so yes, Quasar could mimic that feat. And since you've offered absolutely nothing but bold proclamations to refute that point, it still stands. Offer something in the way of real proof, I.e. scans, and maybe you'll begin to make a good point. But as it stands now you've added nothing more then mere conjecture to the issue.

P.S. No disrespect to you Desaad. You're a damn good poster, but you annoyed the hell out of me with that desperation comment.

Originally posted by dmills
Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

Now regarding your larger point. I made the point about photons since it was mentioned that Dr. Light controlled the 'light aspect' of seemingly exotic energies so yes, Quasar could mimic that feat. And since you've offered absolutely nothing but bold proclamations to refute that point, it still stands. Offer something in the way of real proof, I.e. scans, and maybe you'll begin to make a good point. But as it stands now you've added nothing more then mere conjecture to the issue.

P.S. No disrespect to you Desaad. You're a damn good poster, but you annoyed the hell out of me with that desperation comment.

he's been saying that a lot lately.
😉

wait.. aint that a sign of desperation?
nahh.. j/k

🙄

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
he's been saying that a lot lately.
😉

wait.. aint that a sign of desperation?
nahh.. j/k

🙄

He's prolly annoyed that we dont/won't drink the Koolaid unless we know what's in it. And we all know what happened to the ones that refused it. (Do any of you young fellas even know about Jones town or am I showing my age here lol!)

But seriously, Desaad is a good poster and is usually very respectful.

Desaad is one of the most knowledgeable posters I have seen for quite some time. Knows his Marvel and DC. With a sprinkle of Wildstorm. 😛

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Desaad is one of the most knowledgeable posters I have seen for quite some time. Knows his Marvel and DC. With a sprinkle of Wildstorm. 😛
Of that I have no doubt, but he is still subject to the same forum etiquette as we all are. All I'm asking for is either issue numbers and/or scans, to back up his proclamations. That's all. It doesn't make him a bad guy or anything. It's up to him how he decides to play it.

Originally posted by dmills
Let me set you straight about something, I don't "desperately need it" to be anything. Relax, its a forum debate about fictional characters.

I'm perfectly relaxed. But your actions -- the way you immediately jump on anything that supports the characters that make up your sig and avatar, make it obvious that you're not willing to listen to reason, and that you're coming in here with a closed mind.

Now regarding your larger point. I made the point about photons since it was mentioned that Dr. Light controlled the 'light aspect' of seemingly exotic energies so yes, Quasar could mimic that feat. And since you've offered absolutely nothing but bold proclamations to refute that point, it still stands. Offer something in the way of real proof, I.e. scans, and maybe you'll begin to make a good point. But as it stands now you've added nothing more then mere conjecture to the issue.

Why is it that all I have is bold proclamation and need specific issue numbers -- to follow the etiquiette -- when the person you continually support and take at face value has done nothing of the kind? All anyone in this thread has done has said "Well, his name is light, that's how DC physics works, it doesn't apply to Marvel physics, etc!".

The basis of my claim is seen throughout their character histories -- we KNOW that Quasar is limited by the electromagnetic spectrum. That much is clear.

We DON'T know if the Green Lantern energy is rooted in the electromagnetic spectrum. There is some evidence that supports the idea, but far more that refutes it.

The only counter-evidence being used here is that Dr. Light, a being who controls magical god lightning (outside of the electromagnetic spectrum) just as easily as sunlight, was once able to control Kyle's constructs. But, of course, he was also UNABLE to control or absorb Hal's energy on one occasion, in v3.

The majority of evidence points towards one way, but the smallest sliver of doubt or ambiguity in the subject gets the response, from you, of " game set match".

Surely you see how poorly supported the conclusion you (guys) are drawing is? Surely you must realize that you're seeing what you want to see?

P.S. No disrespect to you Desaad. You're a damn good poster, but you annoyed the hell out of me with that desperation comment.

No disrespect taken. I'm far from unbiased as well -- I created a Hal respect thread.

But in this case, while I'll admit that there IS some small amount of ambiguity, I think the majority of the evidence points to Quasar being unable to directly manipulate GL energies, and I think your proclivity to believe the 'other side' of this debate stems more from your enjoyment of that group of cosmic characters than from an honest estimation of the facts being brought to the table.

Originally posted by Desaad
The basis of my claim is seen throughout their character histories -- we KNOW that Quasar is limited by the electromagnetic spectrum. That much is clear.

For those who missed it :

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Q-bands have NO control over non EM energies.

Originally posted by Desaad
I'm perfectly relaxed. But your actions -- the way you immediately jump on anything that supports the characters that make up your sig and avatar, make it obvious that you're not willing to listen to reason, and that you're coming in here with a closed mind.

Dmills

Well if that's the case, and indeed it hasn't been retconned, then that's game, set, match. If Dr. Light controls photons and can effect a GL energy ring, Quasar should be able to do the same since photons are basic units within the EM spectrum. So draining the ring is possible, or at the very least, manipulating its energy is.

See the Caveat?

Why is it that all I have is bold proclamation and need specific issue numbers -- to follow the etiquiette -- when the person you continually support and take at face value has done nothing of the kind? All anyone in this thread has done has said "Well, his name is light, that's how DC physics works, it doesn't apply to Marvel physics, etc!".

Again see the above caveat. But point taken nonetheless.

The only counter-evidence being used here is that Dr. Light, a being who controls magical god lightning (outside of the electromagnetic spectrum) just as easily as sunlight, was once able to control Kyle's constructs. But, of course, he was also UNABLE to control or absorb Hal's energy on one occasion, in v3.

The majority of evidence points towards one way, but the smallest sliver of doubt or ambiguity in the subject gets the response, from you, of " game set match".

Not just me. Iirc there are at least 3 others that shared that opinion and 1 that was open to the idea. So far you're the only one arguing against it. Or at least the most the most vigorous.

And again, the argument was that Dr. Light controls the "Light aspect" of the energies, not nessecarily the energies themselves per se. So if that's the case, then it doesn't matter if it's a magical lightning bolt, or any other energy for that matter, if it gives off light then he can manipulate it. And since light (photons) is apart of the EM spectrum, and Dr. Light supposedly in the past has manipulated GL energy, then it's at least fair to conclude Quasar has a reasonable chance of replicating that feat. Frankly I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Obviously there's some ambiguity there, but I just don't see this "majority of evidence" that you speak of. You're the GL expert so surely you can provide it no?

No disrespect taken. I'm far from unbiased as well -- I created a Hal respect thread.

But in this case, while I'll admit that there IS some small amount of ambiguity, I think the majority of the evidence points to Quasar being unable to directly manipulate GL energies, and I think your proclivity to believe the 'other side' of this debate stems more from your enjoyment of that group of cosmic characters than from an honest estimation of the facts being brought to the table.

Hey I'm open to change. But I'm a gen X'er and you know how notoriously hard headed we are. The generation of "You have to show me better then you can tell me" lol.

Originally posted by Desaad
That was only ever true for, like, an issue of Joe Kelly's JLA run.

Immediately forgotten about and ignored. He's just got his normal fire weakness.

i was talking about his mini too.