Originally posted by dadudemon
PLEASE tell me you don't LARP as Sauron. At least have some balls to LARP as Aragorn! (I could easily pass as a hobbit with my hairy ass feet. 😆 Makes me think...I might go as one for halloween, now. 😄)
This is an epic film on LARPing. These fools get into it like nobodies business.
If you want a laugh, check it out. I'm sure it can be rented somewhere. If not, PM me, I can hook your ass up.
The hobbit idea isnt a bad one, i can say that much XD
In the books, he was far more badass. And I never said he was the most powerful Maia left. He was in the top 20 i think, but nowhere near as powerful as the top ones. Olorin was just a random Maia who was picked.
Also, Legends really didnt show Chief in much action. He was spraying the whole time, probably about half of those rounds didnt hit, and where the hell was he reloading, now that i think about it.......
Its only 10 feet? I think its a bit higher, but i might be mistaken.
Also, keep in mind the adrenaline is a huge factor in him being able to do that.
He wasnt the only spartan on that ship, however, and im pretty sure that Legends didnt say Chief was an Uber-Spartan........
Also, tomatoes are legally vegetables, and the first day of Black History Month, the place where i live, the ground was covered in snow, which is white.....
Kind of ironic.......
Originally posted by Pwned
Its only 10 feet? I think its a bit higher, but i might be mistaken.
You're mistaken. 😄
Originally posted by Pwned
Also, keep in mind the adrenaline is a huge factor in him being able to do that.
Thanks for the tip. Next time I want to jump 5 meters in the air, upside down, while doing a front flip, and make the jump 20-30 meters long, I'll just make sure to have my adrenaline going. I'll break the high jump and long jump world records, but, hey, I JUST NEEDS ADRENALZ DEWD! 😆
Originally posted by Pwned
He wasnt the only spartan on that ship, however, and im pretty sure that Legends didnt say Chief was an Uber-Spartan........
You are only aware of one video that John-117 was in? Come on, dude, watch the whole series.
Originally posted by Pwned
Also, tomatoes are legally vegetables, and the first day of Black History Month, the place where i live, the ground was covered in snow, which is white.....
Kind of ironic.......
Tomatoes are fruits, actually.
Originally posted by dadudemonActually in 1939 the US Supreme Court ruled that tomatoes were vegetables for legal and tax purposes.
Tomatoes are fruits, actually.
Its the only multi-group food, without combining them.
Also, a soldier whos athletic ability had been enhanced could only jump like that with arenaline, unless they replaced his legs with hydraulic robot legs.
Originally posted by Pwned
Also, a soldier whos athletic ability had been enhanced could only jump like that with arenaline, unless they replaced his legs with hydraulic robot legs.
Or we can say it's science-fiction and he can do that while he's relaxed as a napping car.
But as you've been told before, the suit greatly amplifies his already enhanced strength. So in a way he does have "robot legs".
Originally posted by Pwned
Actually in 1939 the US Supreme Court ruled that tomatoes were vegetables for legal and tax purposes.Its the only multi-group food, without combining them.
Also, a soldier whos athletic ability had been enhanced could only jump like that with arenaline, unless they replaced his legs with hydraulic robot legs.
As you get older, you'll find out rather quickly that the government can be quite wrong.
As fact, the government is wrong in calling it a vegetable. Nix v. Hedden shows how stupid the government can end up being.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Oh no... you will find, that it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many, things.
😆 😆 😆
Originally posted by PwnedAccording to good 'ol Wikipedia, a tomato is botanically a fruit, but the U.S. considers it a vegetable. Meanwhile the Council of the European Union says it should be considered a fruit.
Actually in 1939 the US Supreme Court ruled that tomatoes were vegetables for legal and tax purposes.
[quote]
Really. If the Witch King can do that, so can Sauron. I'd love to see what Master Chief does to Sauron, after his armor and all his weapons have been turned into tiny metal shards by Sauron's magic in an instant. Bore the Dark Lord to death?
Incorrect: you cannot give feats or powers to Sauron that he did not have in the films. We can speculate, but it's baseless. Sauron never showed that ability in the movies or in the books.[/quote]
RJ would disagree, DDM. His favorite line is "[x] can do [y] so all [x`] can also [y]."
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. The Ring did not make Sauron invisible. In the films, all people that put on the ring turn invisible: except for Sauron. Sauron specifically did not turn invisible. Any conclusion that it turns Sauron invisible, is false, from both a movie approach and a book approach.
Yes. It doesn't turn Sauron invisible, because he is already a part of the spirit world it moves regular wearers to. Sauron is no creature that is just flesh. This is pretty much seen when he "explodes" just to return later, right? Not to mention his appearance as the all-seeing eye in the movie, both in the physical and in the spirit world (when talking to Frodo, while he wears the Ring)...
2. Additionally, you only have proof of one kill and that was the king. He might have died from the impact against the rock rather than flying 20 feet. You do know that humans can easily survive flying 20 feet, right? In other words, you have only one instance of confirmed death from the mace but that is questionable as it could have been due to the impact trauma.
Right. Humans can survive flying 20 feet. Yet they most likely won't survive the hit that sent them flying 20 feet in the first place. And of course Elendil died of the impact against the rock, rather than the more powerful impact hitting him in form of Sauron's mace. Logic doesn't seem to be your friend.
This confuses the "control" issue. The Witch King was corrupted by his ring of power. That was in FotR. The king was controlled by Sauron WHEN Sauron had the One Ring. After they were corrupted, Sauron no longer directly controlled their will when he did not have the One Ring. They were, by all accounts, free agents. There is nothing in the films to suggest otherwise. There is nothing in the books to suggest otherwise.
And there is nothing in my post to suggest otherwise. I was merely remarking upon the fact that the Witch King of Angmar is already terrifying enough, yet he's nothing compared to Sauron in his prime, neither in physical ability nor in term of magical ability. This is pretty much stated during the intro to the movies, where his mere presense on the battlefield, changes the situation from "Elves and Men were near victory" to "all hope was gone for Elves and Men". This considerable impact on the situation is nothing but a testament to Sauron's power. But please...keep ignoring it.
Incorrect: you cannot give feats or powers to Sauron that he did not have in the films. We can speculate, but it's baseless. Sauron never showed that ability in the movies or in the books.
Oh. He wasn't using magic in the films? How exactly did he read Merry's thoughts through the Palantir? How did he knock out Aragorn when he touched the thing in a split second? Why did his castle collaps when he died? Probably because he did built it with magic using the One Ring? Gandalf mentions the necromancer of Dol Goldur in "The Fellowship" - Sauron. And we, of course, have his appearance as "the eye" and the fact that he telepatically talked to Aragorn, while the King was standing at the Gates of Mordor. Not to mention his magical mace.
Sauron is a Maiar and has been proclaimed on screen to be more powerful than Gandalf and Saruman (the only other Maiar appearing in the movies). So we have to assume that his abilities are greater than what they've shown onscreen - and the same is the case with the Witch King. He learned his magic from Sauron and has it augmented via one of the lesser rings of power. Of course would the master be more powerful and capable of the same things, especially using the more powerful aid. Anybody who wants to deny that should take some logic classes or apply some common sense.
Especially, when the entire narration of the introduction makes it pretty damn clear that:
a) The power of the Ring couldn't have been stopped.
b) That Sauron's presense was enough to turn the tide of the battle.
In short: Sauron, wearing the One Ring, is an unstoppable force, upon which Isildur did score a lucky strike. That's like hitting Superman with a stone, not being aware that said stone is a piece of Kryptonite.
And, Gandalf's Magical Staff seemed to "magically" reform itself for his Mithlond appearance, which occured many minutes later. Now, this is mostly baseless, but we can be more correct in assuming that the Witch King can only explode the magical staff of weaker wizards, but not anything else. That's about as far of a conclusion that we can make. Anything beyond that will net you contradictions such as: why didn't he "explode" other things...especially in the battle that he DIED.
Wow. Gandalf's staff reformed itself? Is this why he was visible wielding it during the final battle?
Not pictured: Gandalf's staff. And by the way: From the storytelling it's rather absurd to call Gandalf the "lesser Wizard" in comparison to the Witch King.
And what should the Witch King have exploded? Oh, wait. Let's check how that fight went:
Great. He defeats Éowyn in 16 seconds from his first swing to her lying on the ground with a broken arm. Then Pippin assaults him from behind, and is obviously hit by some kind of magical attack, taking him out of the "fight". Then Éowyn drives the sword to his face, yet is also "disarmed" magically by that attack.
What should he have exploded here? Her shield, which he broke in 15 seconds of actual combat? Her sword, which he deemed no danger for him at all ("No man can kill me"😉 or Pippin's blade which the hobbit used to assault him from behind? That aside: Just because he doesn't use the ability in every instance it could have been used, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have used it.
Here's the problem: Master Chief is gimped in this thread, from the beginning. However, he still rapes, utterly. Pretty much every point you made, was invalid, not applicable, or relied on false information. I conceded two points which have no bearing on his fight with John-117.
Really? I think my points were quite valid and you attempted to deny them by simply ignoring implications made on screen. That doesn't fly.
If you want to argue like that, stick to your own rules and only apply to Master Chief what was seen from Master Chief. Dodging magic and / or magical weaponary, I'm afraid, is not among his feats. Neither is cutting opponents fingers off, which is the only way to kill Sauron. And you can write of the pod-throwing sequence too, because logical conclusions aren't allowed here and it wasn't Master Chief throwing the pod, right? You can also exclude all abilities that Master Chief didn't use in every possible instance in which he could have utilized them. Wonder what's left of the Master Chief after this kind of reasoning is utilized... 🙄 Or rather keep the debate to a level on which it makes sense.
And please. Go and explain to us how Master Chief is going to remove the Ring from Sauron's finger, instead of repeating how he will totally kick ass here...
Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes. It doesn't turn Sauron invisible, because he is already a part of the spirit world it moves regular wearers to. Sauron is no creature that is just flesh. This is pretty much seen when he "explodes" just to return later, right? Not to mention his appearance as the all-seeing eye in the movie, both in the physical and in the spirit world (when talking to Frodo, while he wears the Ring)...
I am glad you conceded the point. See, this is how people are supposed to have a proper discussion.
Edit - After reading the rest of your reply, you don't keep up your "courteous" attitude and get a bit nasty. So, I think I must retract that above statement. It was sincere, though, when I first made it.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Right. Humans can survive flying 20 feet. Yet they most likely won't survive the hit that sent them flying 20 feet in the first place. And of course Elendil died of the impact against the rock, rather than the more powerful impact hitting him in form of Sauron's mace. Logic doesn't seem to be your friend.
When fellas get hit on their motorcycles, many times, the impacts against things like other cars, telephone poles, and buildings, kill them, not the impact itself. You'd know that, if you spent a bit of time in an ER. No worries, though, as very few people get to do that.
There's also the trouble of him being alive when he was hit. When he falls to the ground AFTER hitting that large rock's face, he makes one last "grunt" and then dies. As you can tell from his mace, the mace looks to "launch" people almost like TK. He smacks up against that rock pretty hard. It doesn't matter, though, as a smack with that mace does nothing to Master Chief. Master Chief grabs the mace with one hand. 🙂
Originally posted by Borbarad
And there is nothing in my post to suggest otherwise. I was merely remarking upon the fact that the Witch King of Angmar is already terrifying enough, yet he's nothing compared to Sauron in his prime, neither in physical ability nor in term of magical ability. This is pretty much stated during the intro to the movies, where his mere presense on the battlefield, changes the situation from "Elves and Men were near victory" to "all hope was gone for Elves and Men". This considerable impact on the situation is nothing but a testament to Sauron's power. But please...keep ignoring it.
I disagree. You said Sauron commands the Witch-King around.
Originally posted by Borbarad
A being that, even when not in best shape, commands the likes of the Witch King of Angmar around, who easily "disarmed" Gandalf with magic:
Also, the Witch-King seems to have two additional abilities that Sauron did NOT show:
1. Lighting a sword on fire.
2. Exploding the Staff of Maia.
When you say "nothing compared to Sauron in his prime" I disagree based on fact. You have to stick to the movies.
You also got the quote wrong, again.
I don't have to ignore anything but, please, stop playing up Sauron beyond his abilities.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh. He wasn't using magic in the films?
Uhhh, I never said that. 😬
I simply pointed out a flaw in your logic. "you cannot give feats or powers to Sauron that he did not have in the films. We can speculate, but it's baseless. Sauron never showed that ability in the movies or in the books."
Originally posted by Borbarad
How exactly did he read Merry's thoughts through the Palantir? How did he knock out Aragorn when he touched the thing in a split second? Why did his castle collaps when he died? Probably because he did built it with magic using the One Ring? Gandalf mentions the necromancer of Dol Goldur in "The Fellowship" - Sauron. And we, of course, have his appearance as "the eye" and the fact that he telepatically talked to Aragorn, while the King was standing at the Gates of Mordor. Not to mention his magical mace.
You're arguing a huge gigantic strawman. None of those points matter even a little bit. You cannot argue against a point I didn't make.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Sauron is a Maiar and has been proclaimed on screen to be more powerful than Gandalf and Saruman (the only other Maiar appearing in the movies).
Originally posted by dadudemon
That fails as a work-able logical comparison.You do realize that Gandalf and Saruman could easily be killed by Master Chief, right?
Originally posted by Borbarad
So we have to assume that his abilities are greater than what they've shown onscreen - and the same is the case with the Witch King. He learned his magic from Sauron and has it augmented via one of the lesser rings of power. Of course would the master be more powerful and capable of the same things, especially using the more powerful aid. Anybody who wants to deny that should take some logic classes or apply some common sense.
I asked that you not argue in circles, but you're doing it.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect: you cannot give feats or powers to Sauron that he did not have in the films. We can speculate, but it's baseless.
If you want to give Sauron feats that he did not have, then you must do the same for Master Chief. Master Chief can survive atmospheric re-entry therefore, there is no force Sauron is capable of inflicting upon Chief that could even come close to hurting him. You lose and nothing you say can change that.
Do you wish to give up your attempt at giving Sauron feats he does not have? If you do, we can continue. If you don't, you have turned this into a spite thread in which Sauron loses faster than Cindy-Lou versus a fully armed and operational Borg Cube.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Especially, when the entire narration of the introduction makes it pretty damn clear that:a) The power of the Ring couldn't have been stopped.
b) That Sauron's presense was enough to turn the tide of the battle.In short: Sauron, wearing the One Ring, is an unstoppable force, upon which Isildur did score a lucky strike. That's like hitting Superman with a stone, not being aware that said stone is a piece of Kryptonite.
You're arguing in circles again.
For a) and your last comment.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And you can't use that narrator's comment, in that manner, as versus debate"feats" because...get this...the power of the ring WAS undone. Sauron fell and was left to crawl the earth for hundreds of years as a lesser ethereal form. This is in addition to getting his ass destroyed by two child-sized hobbits on his own damn backyard.
for b)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I concede the Sauron was turning point, in the film, for Mordor's forces, but only a morale one, not an actual one. Keep in mind that the wording was "seemed lost", not "it was lost": that's because it was a commentary on morale, not an actual ability of Sauron's slow striking movements making him invincible. He could easily be circled and beat down by enough men that decided to kamikaze
In other words, Sauron is NOT an unstoppable force and the power of the ring COULD be undone and it WAS undone. 😄
Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Gandalf's staff reformed itself? Is this why he was visible wielding it during the final battle?Not pictured: Gandalf's staff. And by the way: From the storytelling it's rather absurd to call Gandalf the "lesser Wizard" in comparison to the Witch King.
So much fail, with you.
Read what I said, again:
Originally posted by dadudemon
And, Gandalf's Magical Staff seemed to "magically" reform itself for his Mithlond appearance, which occured many minutes later.
So you replied with the following:
Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Gandalf's staff reformed itself? Is this why he was visible wielding it during the final battle?Not pictured: Gandalf's staff. And by the way: From the storytelling it's rather absurd to call Gandalf the "lesser Wizard" in comparison to the Witch King.
It's ...so...much...fail that I almost can't respond.
But, I will.
Behold, his staff, at 1:02:
Originally posted by Borbarad
And what should the Witch King have exploded? Oh, wait. Let's check how that fight went:
😉
Originally posted by Borbarad
Great. He defeats Éowyn in 16 seconds from his first swing to her lying on the ground with a broken arm. Then Pippin assaults him from behind, and is obviously hit by some kind of magical attack, taking him out of the "fight". Then Éowyn drives the sword to his face, yet is also "disarmed" magically by that attack.
So, from about :35 to 1:33, he could have exploded her sword, armor, or shield. He doesn't. Odd. In fact, he is not seen exploding ANYTHING else like he did Gandalf's staff. 😉
Well, now that that discussion is over...
Originally posted by Borbarad
What should he have exploded here? Her shield, which he broke in 15 seconds of actual combat? Her sword, which he deemed no danger for him at all ("No man can kill me"😉 or Pippin's blade which the hobbit used to assault him from behind? That aside: Just because he doesn't use the ability in every instance it could have been used, that doesn't mean that he couldn't have used it.
Yeah, those are all good choices.
And, sir, that's incorrect and illogical. The only thing, ever, that he explodes is Gandalf's staff: a magical artifact directly tied to the Wizard. We could say "movie feats" only and say he can only explode Gandalf's staff. However, I don't like that. I would rather say that it's "magic vs. magic" and conclude that it shows that the Witch King had greater magical ability and their clash of wills showed the destruction of the symbol of Gandalf's magic.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Really? I think my points were quite valid and you attempted to deny them by simply ignoring implications made on screen. That doesn't fly.
Yup, really. As you can tell, you didn't do much to provide a rebuttal and, in fact, argued in circles half of the time. And, I haven't ignored anything but you are certainly breaking the "movie screen feats" only rule.
Originally posted by Borbarad
If you want to argue like that, stick to your own rules and only apply to Master Chief what was seen from Master Chief. Dodging magic and / or magical weaponary, I'm afraid, is not among his feats.
I already told that that is an asinine avenue of discussion.
But, if you wish to go down that path: Sauron was not shown dodging a Cyborg from the 26th Century, so he loses hard core.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Neither is cutting opponents fingers off, which is the only way to kill Sauron.
Incorrect. Removing the ring and putting into the fires of mount Doom was the only way. That could involve cutting his fingers off, getting him to hand it over, taking it by force, and so forth.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And you can write of the pod-throwing sequence too, because logical conclusions aren't allowed here and it wasn't Master Chief throwing the pod, right? You can also exclude all abilities that Master Chief didn't use in every possible instance in which he could have utilized them. Wonder what's left of the Master Chief after this kind of reasoning is utilized... 🙄 Or rather keep the debate to a level on which it makes sense.
I agree. Don't give Sauron magical abilities that he wasn't shown using in the movies or the books. I'll be sure to make sure no one tries to give John-117 feats that he wasn't seen using in the movies or the books.
On top of that, only the movie and movie sources (I've clarified what this means, already) can be used in the MVF. That means I can't use any Halo books, you can't use any LOTR books...but if it was a book by book comparison, Sauron wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
Originally posted by Borbarad
And please. Go and explain to us how Master Chief is going to remove the Ring from Sauron's finger, instead of repeating how he will totally kick ass here...
I recommend reading the OP.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Master Chief is only given an Elite Energy Blade
Edit - Also, you have elevated your tone to be a bit more hostile. I was very respectful in my other reply. Please, don't turn this into something more serious than two nerds having a fun discussion on the internet.
DDM, dont start on the books, unless youve read the Silmarillion. That gives a decent impression of Saurons power, which is a pretty large amount.
By the movies, Chief is in only one or two, Sauron was in 3. Granted, it was as an eye that everybody was scared shitless of, but an eye all the same.
Eye drops might have helped now that i think about it, his eye DID have alot of inflamation.......