Originally posted by Pwned
DDM, dont start on the books, unless youve read the Silmarillion.
How many times have I corrected you and others about items that come from the Silmarillion?
Exactly. 😄
I was obsessed, pratically, with Tolkien's world, in middle school. I used to carry a 1980s special edition around with me (all three. The covers were all black with symbols on the front.) along with the "encyclopedia." I'm not sure what that book was called but it was like a giant index/glossary/hisory n'stuff. It's no wonder people LARP: with such a rich history and lots of documentation to go off of, it's only the next logical step to act out fiction.
Originally posted by Pwned
That gives a decent impression of Saurons power, which is a pretty large amount.
Not really. He's pretty dang weak. Most of the "magical power" is passive or behind the scene type of stuff. Telepathy, mind control for those that wear the rings, and so forth. Very weak when compared to other Fantasy wizards.
Originally posted by Pwned
By the movies, Chief is in only one or two, Sauron was in 3. Granted, it was as an eye that everybody was scared shitless of, but an eye all the same.Eye drops might have helped now that i think about it, his eye DID have alot of inflamation.......
Yeah, chief was in 3 or 4 of the shorts. I know he was in 3 of them, for sure.
Also, eyedrops. lulz. I think he needs some counseling as well. 😄
Well, i dont think counseling would help much, as he would kill the therapist.........
Also, it took an elf that could put MORGOTH under a spell and a dog who the Valar said would never die until he met the most dangerous dog to ever live (or something along those lines, it was a huge one Morgoth raised, and hand fed man flesh to it)
Originally posted by dadudemon
When fellas get hit on their motorcycles, many times, the impacts against things like other cars, telephone poles, and buildings, kill them, not the impact itself. You'd know that, if you spent a bit of time in an ER. No worries, though, as very few people get to do that.There's also the trouble of him being alive when he was hit. When he falls to the ground AFTER hitting that large rock's face, he makes one last "grunt" and then dies. As you can tell from his mace, the mace looks to "launch" people almost like TK. He smacks up against that rock pretty hard. It doesn't matter, though, as a smack with that mace does nothing to Master Chief. Master Chief grabs the mace with one hand. 🙂
Welcome to the great comparison of apples to oranges. Round one: Comparing being hit by a giant mace by driving against a wall. Result: "The initial impact doesn't kill people!" Question: Imagine I cut your head of with a sword. Does the strike through your neck kill you or do you "die" when your head hits the ground and the last air has come out of your now headless body? I'd say, the cause of your death is the missing head and not the blood running from your body or the breath coming out of your lungs. You seem to have a different take on the issue.
And for your information: Elendil does neither make any concious movement when flying through the air, nor does he move or breath when hitting the wall or the ground. Boom. He's dead and was already dead when his corpse did hit the wall. Assuming anything else is absolute nonsense, logically, scientifically and even based on the movie.
I disagree. You said Sauron commands the Witch-King around.
Yes. To mention that he was superior. Thanks for pretty much ignoring the rest of the posting.
Also, the Witch-King seems to have two additional abilities that Sauron did NOT show:1. Lighting a sword on fire.
2. Exploding the Staff of Maia.When you say "nothing compared to Sauron in his prime" I disagree based on fact. You have to stick to the movies.
How about sticking to your own advice and "stick to the movies". Do the movies show Wizards getting turned into Nazghul. Nu-uh. They show ordinary kings corrupted by the rings of power. So, when did the Witch King learn about the witchcraft part of his profession? Apparently after being corrupted by the Ring of power because, before that, he was just a regular human king.
So who was his master in terms of witchcraft and magic? Right. His master, the Dark Lord, Sauron himself. As such, we have to assume that his abilities don't exceed that of Sauron. If you don't want to accept that, it makes no sense arguing with you any further.
I simply pointed out a flaw in your logic. "you cannot give feats or powers to Sauron that he did not have in the films. We can speculate, but it's baseless. Sauron never showed that ability in the movies or in the books."
There is no flaw in my logic.
There is a flaw in what you do perceive as logic. To you "logic" is "I only accept stuff seen on screen, ignoring all implications that put Sauron head and shoulders above any other being in middle earth, directly including the Witch King, Gandalf and Saruman".
That's "logic"? Really? I don't see any "logic" in that. I merely see the statement of an ignorant who doesn't want to accept evidence contradicting his own oppinion.
You're arguing a huge gigantic strawman. None of those points matter even a little bit. You cannot argue against a point I didn't make.
Oh. Non of those points matter? Sauron demonstrates the ability to knock out enemies over a distance of several hundred kilometers by just focusing on them (Palantir scene): So why would Master Chief not simply collapse before Sauron, when Sauron sees it fit? Especially when, unlike the movie, we have Sauron equipped with the One Ring, boosting his power.
I asked that you not argue in circles, but you're doing it.
I think you don't understand what "arguing in circles" means. That would be: Assuming that Sauron could win in order to proof he could win. Did I do that? Nope. Thanks for playing.
If you want to give Sauron feats that he did not have, then you must do the same for Master Chief. Master Chief can survive atmospheric re-entry therefore, there is no force Sauron is capable of inflicting upon Chief that could even come close to hurting him. You lose and nothing you say can change that.
Really? Let me say: Magic. I still don't see any way for Master Chief to defend himself against a magical mace sending out shockwaves (unless you want to tell me that Sauron can hit four people at the same time) that throw / kill it's victims. Nor do I see him defending himself against Sauron's mindcontrol abilities that knocked Aragorn out in an instance and enabled him to read minds.
Do you wish to give up your attempt at giving Sauron feats he does not have? If you do, we can continue. If you don't, you have turned this into a spite thread in which Sauron loses faster than Cindy-Lou versus a fully armed and operational Borg Cube.
You do realize that I am utilizing logic, while you trying to refuse this based on "we don't see it on screen, so he can't do it". By this logic, Han Solo can't have sex, because we never saw it on screen. Luke Skywalker can't take a piss, because we've never seen it. It's unreasonable to assume that Lord Voldemort can use "Wingardium Leviosa", a first year spell in Hogwarts, because he doesn't do that on screen. Shall I go on, or do you want to start realizing that this kind of reasoning makes absolutely no sense?
There is a principle called "reasonable assumption" and when you want to circumvent this by "but we've not seen it, so it's invalid", you're really in the wrong place here. Because then it's equally invalid to assume that Master Chief could cut Sauron's finger because we didn't see him doing so on screen.
In other words, Sauron is NOT an unstoppable force and the power of the ring COULD be undone and it WAS undone. 😄
Do you even realize you keep ignoring the question "how" he was undone here? You do realize that he obviously lowered his weapon, which he was wielding with the ring hand to do whatever to Isildur, when he deemed Isildur unarmed. He didn't die because of the uber skill of Isildur, but just because he lowered his defense and was then hit by a once-in-a-million surprise attack from the prince of Gondor.
That's like saying Darth Vader can take Darth Sidious in a straight forward fight, because he managed to pick him up from behind to toss him into a reactor shaft in "Return of the Jedi": It doesn't make any sense.
It's ...so...much...fail that I almost can't respond.But, I will.
Behold, his staff, at 1:02:
Behold the weakness of that argument. For somebody "being obsessed with world of Tolkien in middle-school" you've managed rather well to ignore that Mithlond happens years after the ring was destroyed. Even the movie version shows Sam holding the finished tale of Frodo's journey in hand during the scene you've posted and after that he's returning home with his wife and his children waiting.
So your actual argument is: "Gandalf's staff magically reformed itself, because he was carrying a staff two years later." Do I have to point out the hilarity of that reasoning, or can you figure it out for yourself?
So, from about :35 to 1:33, he could have exploded her sword, armor, or shield. He doesn't. Odd. In fact, he is not seen exploding ANYTHING else like he did Gandalf's staff. winkWell, now that that discussion is over...
Wow. I could swear I lectured you on this kind of "reasoning" several times now. Apparently, I didn't, because you really stick to your own ways of hilarity onwards. So let me check: Master Chief can't kill Sauron, because we've never seen him killing a supernatural being (movie feats only). Neither can he cut Sauron's fingers off, because he has never cut fingers from his opponents on screen (movie feats only!). He can strike down elites with an energy sword? Doesn't mean he can do that to anybody else (including Sauron)! Do you start realizing where the "no speculation, movie feats only" rule leads, or do I need to paint you a picture?
And, sir, that's incorrect and illogical. The only thing, ever, that he explodes is Gandalf's staff: a magical artifact directly tied to the Wizard. We could say "movie feats" only and say he can only explode Gandalf's staff. However, I don't like that. I would rather say that it's "magic vs. magic" and conclude that it shows that the Witch King had greater magical ability and their clash of wills showed the destruction of the symbol of Gandalf's magic.
Wow. Now it's not "movie feats only" any longer, because, all over a sudden, after having tried to beat all my arguments to death with those three words, you "don't like it" any longer. Very funny, indeed, you hypocrite. Now it's, somehow, magic vs magic and the destruction of the staff being a metaphor for that.
Yet, despite of that great interpretation, any further conclusion from this incidence will be ignored. Despite being the "greater magician" (following your interpretation) we can't assume that the Witch King would be able to, let's say, destroy the bridge of Khazad-dûm as a less powerful Gandalf did because we didn't see him doing this.
Does that really make sense to you? To me, it doesn't.
Yup, really. As you can tell, you didn't do much to provide a rebuttal and, in fact, argued in circles half of the time. And, I haven't ignored anything but you are certainly breaking the "movie screen feats" only rule
Oh. The "movie screen feats only" rule is back in action. That seems to be somewhat oddly placed here, provided you follow up with this:
I already told that that is an asinine avenue of discussion.But, if you wish to go down that path: Sauron was not shown dodging a Cyborg from the 26th Century, so he loses hard core.
Brilliant. So when I call you out on sticking to the "movie feats only" rule, that suddenly is an "asinine avenue of discussion"? That's your way to deal with my arguments, pal. Again "hypocrite" is the only word to describe your behaviour here. Either that, or you pretty stubborn or pretty stupid. Your choice.
Incorrect. Removing the ring and putting into the fires of mount Doom was the only way. That could involve cutting his fingers off, getting him to hand it over, taking it by force, and so forth.
Or, in short, nothing that the Master Chief will manage to do, right? Right. Thanks for playing.
I agree. Don't give Sauron magical abilities that he wasn't shown using in the movies or the books. I'll be sure to make sure no one tries to give John-117 feats that he wasn't seen using in the movies or the books.On top of that, only the movie and movie sources (I've clarified what this means, already) can be used in the MVF. That means I can't use any Halo books, you can't use any LOTR books...but if it was a book by book comparison, Sauron wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
You agree?
Then, please: Go and give a list of Master Chiefs feats that he uses in every single fight he's in - otherwise, they don't count (see your Witch King argument). Take care and especially demonstrated his skill with the energy blade against opponents compareable in strength and power to Sauron (aka creatures not existing in the Haloverse), because otherwise you don't have a point here. Good luck with establishing the Master Chiefs skill and strength with a blade by listing his blade feats only and nothing else. Because everything else would be speculation, right?
Edit - Also, you have elevated your tone to be a bit more hostile. I was very respectful in my other reply. Please, don't turn this into something more serious than two nerds having a fun discussion on the internet.
I have absolutely no patience for people who try to sell of their ignorance as "logic", while torpeding logic wherever they can. This while performing the same thing they don't want to see in my posts (speculation) in order to come up with their own argument. I totally dislike hypocrites. So if you want me to be friendly, simply don't act like an idiot. If you do, you will be treated like one. I consider that a fair offer, that you can accept or - not accept. But if you make the latter choice, don't blame the results on me.
That aside: Some off my writing may come off more hostile than it is meant to be, because:
a) English isn't my primary language.
b) I usually exaggerate comments to put an emphasis on my views and arguments, which is usually not ment to insult people on a personal level. I don't take internet discussion too seriously and I expect that other people also don't get upset because of some verbal jab at an internet forum.
Originally posted by Pwned
By the movies, Chief is in only one or two, Sauron was in 3. Granted, it was as an eye that everybody was scared shitless of, but an eye all the same
Cross-feats are allowed for like characters in these fights, eg 'all Jedi can force-push in MVF fights', even the ones that didn't specifically use that power in the films. Unless stated it's a character specific-power, or a power that only comes with attaining a certain level of power. This was done to lower the lameness in the debates and the nitpicking.
So the Spartans' feats in Halo Legends 3, 5 and 7 would count, as Master Chief is a like character.
Master Chief was also in 4 of the shorts, if you're talking about appearances. Though he didn't do anything in 1 and 2.
Originally posted by Pwned
Ok, thanks Rob, though it was mainly responding to DDMs argument of only using feats they had shown.......And i dont remember seeing Chief in any but the last one and the one where he is just on a Pelican, while that incompetant spartan does random crap.
That's how it was in here in the very beginning and it made for exceptionally lame and limited debates.
He was in the first two also, he's in the cyro-unit when Cortana is speaking.
EP 5. Spartan 1337 was a retard and that was the worst episode as it was kiddy-nonsense. But his feat in surviving a fall high enough that it made a crater on impact is impressive and does illustrate the durability the Spartans' have. Not going to mention the dinosaur feats.
Originally posted by Pwned
TrueThough can we really count being in a cryo tank as a feat? I dont count him as being in it, as he is just there, hes not really there, know what im saying?
Word.
Never said it was a usable feat. I was commenting on how many episodes Master Chief appeared and I noted that he didn't do anything at all in 1 and 2 of 'Origins.'