Ambiguous themes =\= plotholes. As noted above, something like "why is it that they apparently had the entire tunnel system mapped out, at the very least the entrances and exits, yet 10 minutes later two members of the crew get turned around?" is absolutely a plot-hole.
"Why would the two guys who get so scared of a headless, obviously dead alien that they need to immediately flee for their lives, suddenly have the courage to walk up to and touch a living, hissing alien?" is a plot-hole, etc.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Definitely the questions of "Why did the map guy get lost", etc..!
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Ambiguous themes =\= plotholes. As noted above, something like "why is it that they apparently had the entire tunnel system mapped out, at the very least the entrances and exits, yet 10 minutes later two members of the crew get turned around?" is absolutely a plot-hole.
When the storm hits, it causes radio degradation and thus their signal comes in and out sporadically on the holographic map, on the radio, the video monitors. They didn't have a map (Fifield and that other douche) and only had digital compasses. The crew’s devices on their wrists only read environmental stats like temperature, air, etc, and only triangulate geographic latitude and longitude coordinates of the pups and their own position. Essentially without Janek who has access to the holographic map the crew only have digital compasses with raw coordinates but no map. This is important.
When the pups first start scanning, Fifield says, “Pups are saying this way”, he’s reading either the latitude or longitude of a couple of pups and their environmental read outs leading them through a straight passage way to the water hole indicating an atmosphere processor generating breathable air. As they pass through more identical, maze-like tunnels and passageways deeper into the temple, knowing where you were or where the exit was in lat/long coordinates, which are useless for navigation without a map, in a foreign, unfamiliar place, with multiple tunnels and passage ways that look the same, with radio interference, without an android, whilst paranoid and stoned will get you lost.
Though Fifield seemed perfectly confident relying on coordinates, knowing long/lat coordinates would have been useless since you would have to remember which passage ways or tunnels lead back and when the storm hits the storm causes intermittent radio degradation interfering with their signal that comes in and out sporadically on the holographic map and video monitors. This is why Janek asks for their positions on their compasses later when he finds the ping.
People still get lost with GPS and satnav due to unintentional blindness among other factors. Case in point - http://news.discovery.com/autos/gps-navigation-lost-trust-110517.html
The two of them getting lost symbolizes the paradox of man; despite all his technological advancement and evolution, having traveled light years into space, his navigational skills are still inferior to lower animals and his technology is still thwarted by the elements. It seems many missed the philosophical point here.
Also, "As the rover vehicle left the crew thought that Fifield and Millburn were on board".
Although Janek or someone on the bridge had the capability to guide our lost travelers back on course, there are two reasons why that didn't happen. First, they had their hands full preparing the ship for the arrival of the storm front. Second, if you look at the 3D display, the way the transponder data is reported is horrible. Everybody is represented with a single letter which is not a unique identifier. There are two F's for Fifield and Ford, so it's not possible to tell who's who at a glance. That is a result of poorly done data entry as a result of hasty or nonexistent planning.
Topic has been beaten into the ground. There are almost a dozen reasons they got lost (actual reasons, not speculation). It is forced to think they got lost because of a plothole. You'd have to ignore about a dozen reasons they actually got lost to assume it was a plothole.
The irony was not lost, DDM. Nor the philosophical point. Nothing was lost on anyone here in that regard.
The fact that he was a map maker who didn't even have a device showing the recordings of the findings his devices provided was dumbassery of the highest order.
Sure I buy it that storm messed with party-to-ship communications, but not even having a personal data displayer on him? Absolutely stupid plotholery.
Its like being a photographer who leaves without film/memory cards. Pure buffoonery.
If you plan of getting stoned in said environment, it would make more sense to take such a device, knowing that your short term memory may temporarily fritz.
Whilst I admire the attempt DDM, Im with Tzeentch here.
Especially on the 'run in terror at the sight of Aliens then try to make friends with the hissing alien penis' thing. More dumbness, imo.
And so was an expedition totally wanting to meet Aliens, then totally deciding to ignore when a crew member gives birth to one. Doh! Where was the Ash/Bishop style bio analysis? Or even a show of even caring it existed? Nowhere to be seen.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Where is any of this explained within the movie?
If you'll notice, the opening portion of that apologetic uses information from the movies that actually shows why they were lost. No explanation is required. To actually waste screen time explaining the same thing you can observe for yourself from the movie, is poor writing.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Anyone can apologize a plot-hole away; it's because it isn't explained in the movie that is why it's a plot-hole, and not just stupid.
Well, it's clearly not a plothole. It is a forced plothole that requires you to ignore tons of things that clearly show it not being a plothole.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
The fact that he was a map maker who didn't even have a device showing the recordings of the findings his devices provided was dumbassery of the highest order.
The Holographic projector that they had on the ship was pretty dang huge...not sure how that tech could have fit into the wrist watches (which displayed what looked like basic coordinates and atmospheric information, only...very basic tech that was more a "tricorder" than a smartphone, as you're implying it should have been).
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Whilst I admire the attempt DDM, Im with Tzeentch here.
Especially on the 'run in terror at the sight of Aliens then try to make friends with the hissing alien penis' thing. More dumbness, imo.
Dude, the snake thing? Stupid stupid stupid writing. Why would an exo-biologist, supposedly one of the tops in his field because he was selected for the mission, mess with that thing?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude, the snake thing? Stupid stupid stupid writing. Why would an exo-biologist, supposedly one of the tops in his field because he was selected for the mission, mess with that thing?
Yeah that part bothered me more. I didn't even think about the map part til someone else said something and i was like "oh yeah that WAS the map guy! How the f*ck does the map guy get lost?" I only saw it once and was kinda bored so i'm sure i didn't focus as much as was needed for this film but it seems like most people agree with these issues.
Originally posted by dadudemonDude, the snake thing? Stupid stupid stupid writing. Why would an exo-biologist, supposedly one of the tops in his field because he was selected for the mission, mess with that thing?
But this is where the dilemma lies...you can accept "stupid writing" but then ignore plot holes...doesn't stupid writing create plot holes???
I didn't see any "philosophical point" being made with the 2 lost crew, I just saw a badly edited sequence in the movie that went unexplained as to why the 2 were still in the ruins...when they were the first to head back to the ship.
Yes, on hindsight you can debate the storm's interference with their electronics but on the big screen for the first time, it really felt badly edited & a scene or 2 missing.
Originally posted by dadudemonThe Holographic projector that they had on the ship was pretty dang huge...not sure how that tech could have fit into the wrist watches (which displayed what looked like basic coordinates and atmospheric information, only...very basic tech that was more a "tricorder" than a smartphone, as you're implying it should have been).
Yet they have anti gravity map balls, that contain power cores enough to sustanin sefl guided flight and cast red light over all it surveys..... and we didn't see masses of holo equipment when holo-Weyland gave his lecture either... how hard would it have been to have a handset or headset over eye HUD type gadget? They most iikely would have that stuff coming out of their arses as standard. He have google maps on phone now. By the time we have hit the stars with massive advanced ships like they have at that time, its almost inconceivable that the top map guy didnt have portable data checking equipment.. I say it was stupidity.
Lets see what Mr.Horse thought of the matter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRaoHi_xcWk
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yet they have anti gravity map balls, that contain power cores enough to sustanin sefl guided flight and cast red light over all it surveys..... and we didn't see masses of holo equipment when holo-Weyland gave his lecture either... how hard would it have been to have a handset or headset over eye HUD type gadget? They most iikely would have that stuff coming out of their arses as standard. He have google maps on phone now.
We don't see projectors when Weyland gave his presentation...but all of the floor, all of the walls, and/or all of the ceiling could have been used as the projector. All we have as evidence for how large the holographic projectors truly are is the one on the bridge...and they are quite huge. Conclusion: projectors are quite huge.
Shooting out lasers is a moist environment is hardly evidence that the technology could have been miniaturized. Additionally, you're forcing a plot hole by pretending the tech could have been miniaturized. That does not constitute a plothole. We have only one scene in which an HG projector is truly seen (pun in tended) and that shows the projectors being quite huge. We don't need any other evidence to conclude that the watches did not have the 3D map projections that the bridge crew had access to. Additionally, you have to stick with what was seen on those watches and not invent tech to force a plothole: we saw atmospheric readings. There was one point that they referenced coordinates...while looking at the watches, so some have assumed that they watches had coordinates displaying from the data collected from the pups. Maybe...so I go ahead and add that ability to those watches just to be nice to the haters.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
By the time we have hit the stars with massive advanced ships like they have at that time, its almost inconceivable that the top map guy didnt have portable data checking equipment.. I say it was stupidity.Lets see what Mr.Horse thought of the matter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRaoHi_xcWk
All I see here is massive assumption after assumption after speculation, after "not seen on screen". You're inventing unseen technology to force a plothole. You're assuming all technologies develop at an arbitrary and illogical pace. Why would holographic technology develop at the same space as "hyperdrives"? It is equally likely, according to the laws of physics, for holograms as ad advanced as the ones seen in prometheus as it is for faster than light ships seen in prometheus. Hell, there are actual theories that are possible under the laws of physics, for faster than light travel. There exists nothing for holograms like seen in Prometheus.
And why is it inconceivable that a massive holographic projector would be kept on the bridge and that information coordinated to the landing crew over radio communications? That seems rather normal and expected, to me.
Your point/argument boils down to the following: "I want this technology to do X for completely unsubstantiated and arbitrary reasons. Because if the technology can do that, then there is a plothole! AHA!"
Makes little sense.
Stick with the real plotholes and not the forced ones. Here's an excellent plothole: an exo-biologist ****s around with a snake-like animal on another "planet". Charlize Theron runs in a straight line to escape a rolling ship...instead of running to the left or to the right......that's so damn stupid. I am still irritated with that.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
But this is where the dilemma lies...you can accept "stupid writing" but then ignore plot holes...doesn't stupid writing create plot holes???I didn't see any "philosophical point" being made with the 2 lost crew, I just saw a badly edited sequence in the movie that went unexplained as to why the 2 were still in the ruins...when they were the first to head back to the ship.
No, I don't ignore plotholes. I call out bullshit when people try to force plotholes onto the film. I still call out legit plotholes for what they generally are, however.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Yes, on hindsight you can debate the storm's interference with their electronics but on the big screen for the first time, it really felt badly edited & a scene or 2 missing.
Most people are not observant/ADD enough to figure out exactly what happened in scenes such as the one you mentioned. They are distracted by actually following what is happening in the movie. 😐
Basically, I think most people don't realize what happened because they were paying attention which functions as a detriment to understanding that. Prolly bad editing, like you said.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Then its pretty creepy that she got laid in her daddies bed. 😐But seriously, Weylands rich enough to have his own stupid medpod. And nowhere is that made clear in the movie. And and, the medpod being male only is still dumb.
So what you're telling me is...you missed an important part of the film.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You forgot to add..."By a black guy!" 😮💨
I sure hope you're black because that would make this post even better.