Originally posted by -Pr-
i'll check it out.narration is the only set in stone speech outside of feats that we use to determine skill. what comes out of the character's mouth is rarely usable unless there's evidence to back it up.
bruce saying that steve is his equal or superior/inferior really has no bearing on this fight, seeing as bruce and steve have barely encountered one another.
True. But we also look at the story being told in the action its self. All in all, I think Bruce and Steve will match each other move for move.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
True. But we also look at the story being told in the action its self. All in all, I think Bruce and Steve will match each other move for move.
who's superior between cap and bruce will go on until the cows come home.
as far as 485 goes.
a) it's pre-crisis, and as much as i would argue that the crisis isn't a be all and end all wipe-out, it's still generally not used on the forum.
b) the fight looked even up until batman got tranquilised, so i wouldn't use it as anything approaching a statement of tiger being superior.
Originally posted by -Pr-
who's superior between cap and bruce will go on until the cows come home.as far as 485 goes.
a) it's pre-crisis, and as much as i would argue that the crisis isn't a be all and end all wipe-out, it's still generally not used on the forum.
b) the fight looked even up until batman got tranquilised, so i wouldn't use it as anything approaching a statement of tiger being superior.
I'm fully aware that they stalemated in the second fight. But I was referring to the first.
The rule its self works against Ben in this situation. And I can't discount that when I wasn't given any reason why that fight ever took place between the two.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
I'm fully aware that they stalemated in the second fight. But I was referring to the first.The rule its self works against Ben in this situation. And I can't discount that when I wasn't given any reason why that fight ever took place between the two.
the couple of panels? that really isn't a definitive indication of any superiority, imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-
the couple of panels? that really isn't a definitive indication of any superiority, imo.
Yes it is, when you take into consideration of how skilled Bruce is himself. Not only did Tiger fake him, he hit Bruce hard enough to put him down for the count. You can't just do that to someone who's a master martial artist without considerable superior skill your self. Batman has been hit hard many times and never go down like that before from just one kick.
Originally posted by -Pr-
the couple of panels? that really isn't a definitive indication of any superiority, imo.
Exactly.
Stalemating Batman is a nice feat clearly, but if you're opting to make their initial encounter take more precedence over their stalemate, then you're narrowing his career through subjectivity... which is fine, but then you ALSO have to note that Captain America railed through Night Thrasher in 1 panel too. 😬
And that's not even taking into account the crisis issue.... the biggest bone we've thrown team BT since this farce started.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Even if you believe that, the book still isn't valid on the forum.
I know I'm just responding to your particular argument
Originally posted by -Pr-
who's superior between cap and bruce will go on until the cows come home.as far as 485 goes.
a) it's pre-crisis, and as much as i would argue that the crisis isn't a be all and end all wipe-out, it's still generally not used on the forum.
Superman feats, yes. Theres no reason why pre-crisis Batman feats can't be used.
Originally posted by -Pr-
b) the fight looked even up until batman got tranquilised, so i wouldn't use it as anything approaching a statement of tiger being superior.
When did that happen in the first fight?
Originally posted by -Pr-
the couple of panels? that really isn't a definitive indication of any superiority, imo.
Wait you mean the fight were Bruce gets knocked down in two panels?
This is pretty simple in my mind. Captain America is established in canon as being more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist. He told Iron Fist to his face he was more skilled, and Shang-Chi's rogue gallery stated that Cap was more skilled than Shang. Shang-Chi and Iron Fist are EASILY as skilled as Richard Dragon or Bronze Tiger, ergo Captain America is more skilled than either of them. With the added benefit of his superhuman attributes and limitless stamina in conjunction with his skill edge, he stomps.
Originally posted by srankmissingninThis is pretty simple in my mind. Captain America is established in canon as being more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist. He told Iron Fist to his face he was more skilled, and Shang-Chi's rogue gallery stated that Cap was more skilled than Shang. Shang-Chi and Iron Fist are EASILY as skilled as Richard Dragon or Bronze Tiger, ergo Captain America is more skilled than either of them. With the added benefit of his superhuman attributes and limitless stamina in conjunction with his skill edge, he stomps.
i agree 100%.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yes it is, when you take into consideration of how skilled Bruce is himself. Not only did Tiger fake him, he hit Bruce hard enough to put him down for the count. You can't just do that to someone who's a master martial artist without considerable superior skill your self. Batman has been hit hard many times and never go down like that before from just one kick.
considering that they fought again in the same issue and they were obviously stalemating each other, it has more weight than a couple of panels.
batman wasn't the first hero to get smacked down by someone making their introduction. it's the worf effect, and is a storytelling tool.
if tiger had dominated the second fight, then you might have a case, but he didn't.
regardless, it has no bearing on post crisis tiger's skills/abilities.
Originally posted by Deadline
Superman feats, yes. Theres no reason why pre-crisis Batman feats can't be used.
i already referenced this earlier. while i do think there is a case to be made for certain characters, bada and i just don't have the time to take it one at a time, so for the moment play it safe, just in case.
two of my favourite characters have lost out big time due to stuff like this, so i honestly wish it was easier.
When did that happen in the first fight?
was talking about the second one. the first one wasn't much of a fight, imo.
Wait you mean the fight were Bruce gets knocked down in two panels?
http://img43.imageshack.us/f/b01dzc.jpg/
yes, and i referenced it already.
Originally posted by Deadline
It caqn be argued that Batman is more skilled than Cap though. It can also be argued that DS is more is more formidable than Cap. It's not that simple.
Make the arguement that Batman is more skilled and back it up with something. We know why I think Cap is more skilled, but all we have other wise is people saying "I think Batman is more skilled." But why? Give me some reasons.
Originally posted by -Pr-
batman wasn't the first hero to get smacked down by someone making their introduction. it's the worf effect, and is a storytelling tool.
Characters have also been smacked around when they haven't been introduced either.
Originally posted by -Pr-
if tiger had dominated the second fight, then you might have a case, but he didn't.
Didn't Batman have prep in the second fight?
Originally posted by -Pr-regardless, it has no bearing on post crisis tiger's skills/abilities.
i already referenced this earlier. while i do think there is a case to be made for certain characters, bada and i just don't have the time to take it one at a time, so for the moment play it safe, just in case.
two of my favourite characters have lost out big time due to stuff like this, so i honestly wish it was easier.
What so were making this a rule now? Theres no reason to think that BT wouldn't beat Batman especially since hes beaten an opponent that is superior to Batman and has beaten him three time (Deathstroke).
Originally posted by -Pr-was talking about the second one. the first one wasn't much of a fight, imo.
yes, and i referenced it already.
How on earth does getting dropped in two panels not indicate superioty?
Originally posted by srankmissingninThis is pretty simple in my mind. Captain America is established in canon as being more skilled than Shang-Chi and Iron Fist. He told Iron Fist to his face he was more skilled, and Shang-Chi's rogue gallery stated that Cap was more skilled than Shang. Shang-Chi and Iron Fist are EASILY as skilled as Richard Dragon or Bronze Tiger, ergo Captain America is more skilled than either of them. With the added benefit of his superhuman attributes and limitless stamina in conjunction with his skill edge, he stomps.
lulz where do you keep finding these?
Originally posted by Deadline
Characters have also been smacked around when they haven't been introduced either.
nobody is disputing that.
Didn't Batman have prep in the second fight?
bar the antidotes to the poisons, not that i could see.
What so were making this a rule now?
it's been the general rule of thumb for years on this forum that we don't use pre crisis feats unless stated in the OP.
seriously; it's common knowledge on the forum.
How on earth does getting dropped in two panels not indicate superioty?
because the second fight happened.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
http://www.jamesvandermemes.com/
i love how he just went with it.
i can't wait til keanu does too.
