Originally posted by Warrior18
What does it matter what you consider him to be?He runs at 60 miles per hour, easily heals from gunshot wounds to the head, doesn't produce lactic acids and casually bench presses 1000lbs.
.
Other streets [B]can't and don't do thatClearly Marvel and just about every Captain America writer view that as being the peak of human potential.
You are denying facts because they either butt hurt your argument or you just don't know anything about the characters concerned.
I wonder what the word for that is? [/B]
That doesn't conclusively prove that hes superhuman though. faceplam Not in comics.
Originally posted by Deadline
That doesn't conclusively prove that hes superhuman though. faceplam Not in comics.
It's irrelevent what term is used to describe him. He could be classed as an olympic level athlete and still have the said regular feats to his name.
Feats which have him operating consistently at a level above streets in his and other universes.
Marvelknight is just upset that Steve's feats trump BT's.So he ignores them and focuses on some bizarre semantical argument about specific terms. lol
Originally posted by Warrior18
It's irrelevent what term is used to describe him. He could be classed as an olympic level athlete and still have the said regular feats to his name.
No because in the context of comics it could be argued he isn't superhuman. Hes said hes not superhuman on panel, other people have said it as well (apparently).
Originally posted by Warrior18
Feats which have him operating consistently at a level above streets in his and other universes.
Yea but it's not like there is some big almighty gap you know..
Originally posted by Warrior18Marvelknight is just upset that Steve's feats trump BT's.So he ignores them and focuses on some bizarre semantical argument about specific terms. lol
Er no. You've come late to the party and you don't know whats going on. People have been lowballing his feats from page 1, yea he's a little hot headed but its a combination of things that are pissing him off. He's just fed up.
Originally posted by Deadline
No because in the context of comics it could be argued he isn't superhuman. Hes said hes not superhuman on panel, other people have said it as well (apparently).Yea but it's not like there is some big almighty gap you know..
Er no. You've come late to the party and you don't know whats going on. People have been lowballing his feats from page 1, yea he's a little hot headed but its a combination of things that are pissing him off. He's just fed up.
Agreed.Yet he's still overall above the likes of DD, Bats etc.
Akin to Slade in my opinion.
Marvelknight however won't even entertain the thought, despite the on panel evidence.
Been following this thread from page 1.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
It's warning to both. And no it won't end there. I'll take this to another Moderator.Because no man is talking down to me, period.
If you take someone telling you to calm down because you were going over the top, which you were in my opinion, to be condescending, then I have no idea what to say to you.
And by all means, take it to another moderator.
Originally posted by -Pr-
and batman has beaten those too.
Batman beat DS who was completely suprised and had to pick up a weapon to beat him. BT actually disarmed DS who picked up a weapn BT did much better.
Originally posted by -Pr-i use deduction; it's not the same thing.
Then why are you looking at DS and Batman fights then, aren't you using that as proof to construct an argument as to wether BT can beat Steve Rogers or not? Is Steve Rogers Batman and Deathstroke? Also I don't even think Geo-force beat Deathstroke h2h anyway, pretty poor comparison.
Originally posted by -Pr-
some writers do, do research, but there's no point mentioning it otherwise.
Actually I'm pretty sure he did know that BT beat Batman. He was the writer editor for Whos Who in the DC universe and that featured Bronze Tiger. He also created Deathstroke. That story was wriiten by Marv and I'm quite sure that the story where DS beats Batman was written by Marv.
So we can see the reason why Marv decided to have BT fight DS was because he was so formidable. So naturally an opponent that beat Batman in h2h is a good choice.
Originally posted by Warrior18
Agreed.Yet he's still overall above the likes of DD, Bats etc.
Akin to Slade in my opinion.
Marvelknight however won't even entertain the thought, despite the on panel evidence.
I think that has alot to do with the fact that people haven't considered that anything hes said is right from the very beginning.
Why the hell should he?
Originally posted by Warrior18
Been following this thread from page 1.
and you didn't see the lowball?
DS was suprised, but wasn't suprised for several pages. But the point is he was suprised so the fights not legit.
DS wasn't trying his best because they were friends. While ignoring the fact that if he got taken in he would have got killed. Not to mention that theres a speech bubble emphasised in red that shows who clearly he didn't want to be taken in.
DS was trying to escape, but he can't escape unless he gets past BT.
DS picked up a knife that...um that doesn't matter because um its just doesn't.
DS was weakened eventhough he had 6 hours to heal
etc etc etc.
every showing that hes posted somebody has had found something wrong with it. Either its a coincedence or its a lowball.
Originally posted by Deadline
Then why are you looking at DS and Batman fights then, aren't you using that as proof to construct an argument as to wether BT can beat Steve Rogers or not? Is Steve Rogers Batman and Deathstroke? Also I don't even think Geo-force beat Deathstroke h2h anyway, pretty poor comparison.
except that it proved to illustrate my point about context.
Actually I'm pretty sure he did know that BT beat Batman. He was the writer editor for Whos Who in the DC universe and that featured Bronze Tiger. He also created Deathstroke. That story was wriiten by Marv and I'm quite sure that the story where DS beats Batman was written by Marv.
sorry, i genuinely forgot; what was the point of that part again?
So we can see the reason why Marv decided to have BT fight DS was because he was so formidable. So naturally an opponent that beat Batman in h2h is a good choice.
except that he fought a weakened deathstroke in the fight that was posted, and it wasn't a fair reflection of how they'd do against each other in a standard matchup.
Originally posted by -Pr-
except that it proved to illustrate my point about context.
Your not using these fights in any shape of form to help you come to a decision about wether BT can beat Steve? I mean you asked MK for proof that BT could beat Steve. You didn't say "I'm not looking at any Batman or Deathsroke fights that ABC logic. Batman isn't Steve neither is Deathstroke!"
Pr when you have vs matches. Do you not decide how a person is going to win based on how well hes done against other opponents?
Geo-force didn't beat DS in h2h, right?
Originally posted by -Pr-
sorry, i genuinely forgot; what was the point of that part again?
The points is that Marv Wolfman knew that BT beat Batman in h2h and would have taken that into consideration.
Originally posted by -Pr-except that he fought a weakened deathstroke in the fight that was posted, and it wasn't a fair reflection of how they'd do against each other in a standard matchup.
How do you know he was weakened? How do you know it wasn't a fair reflection? BT has beaten Batman in two panels and NW has held his own against DS, its not like hes infallible.
Originally posted by Deadline
Your not using these fights in any shape of form to help you come to a decision about wether BT can beat Steve? I mean you asked MK for proof that BT could beat Steve. You didn't say "I'm not looking at any Batman or Deathsroke fights that ABC logic. Batman isn't Steve neither is Deathstroke!"Pr when you have vs matches. Do you not decide how a person is going to win based on how well hes done against other opponents?
huh?
of course i use other fights to determine how well they'd do. i just use more than one.
Geo-force didn't beat DS in h2h, right?
of course not.
The points is that Marv Wolfman knew that BT beat Batman in h2h and would have taken that into consideration.
except that batman stalemated and has beaten bronze tiger too, if what i've been told is correct.
How do you know he was weakened? How do you know it wasn't a fair reflection? BT has beaten Batman in two panels and NW has held his own against DS, its not like hes infallible.
because i read the comic. he was weakened.
but over the totality of their fights, ds is better than nightwing (which isn't necessarily bad, because nightwing is awesome). cherry picking is what makes it ABC logic.
Originally posted by -Pr-
huh?of course i use other fights to determine how well they'd do. i just use more than one.
of course not.
I wasn't just using one anyway.
I hear what you're saying but it could be a better analogy.
Originally posted by -Pr-
except that batman stalemated and has beaten bronze tiger too, if what i've been told is correct.
I'm not aware of Batman ever beating BT. Yes he stalemated BT in h2h my point is simply that BT actually has a win over Batman.
Originally posted by -Pr-because i read the comic. he was weakened.
As it was pointed out it could have been 6 hours before the first fight.
Originally posted by -Pr-but over the totality of their fights, ds is better than nightwing (which isn't necessarily bad, because nightwing is awesome).
Yea but you can't conclusively decide its a poor showings against BT, when a guy on NWs lvl can have good showings against him. As far as I'm aware NW has never beaten somebody on Batmans lvl (at the time of the showings being discussed).
It also seems to me it's possible that the NW that did well against DS was better than the older 'versions'.
Originally posted by -Pr-cherry picking is what makes it ABC logic.
Right, which isn't what I was doing anyway. I was saying he's more skilled than Batman because hes beaten Batman and an opponent that has beaten Batman. Matter of opinion, fine. Poor logic not it isn't.
-Pr- Look I don't really have a problem with you. But I can't be pushed around. And it don't happen in life. Out here it's real. This is online. So for someone to tell me to calm the F down. Is a joke to me, because you wouldn't say that to me in person. I didn't mean to come at you like that. that's my bad. But every post you placed in some way is leaning towards Steve favor. Then the fight with Slade is taken out of contexts. You think Slade was that badly hurt by the time Bronze Tiger attack? No, not at all. If it wasn't enough with some of these wanna be "cool kids" I have demeaning that fight, now I have a Moderator too. So that pissed me off. And then you tried to come at me and I had to shut that down.
Because ain't no man or woman gonna talk to me like I'm their child. I'm a grown ass man. So don't take it personal. But I'm just very irritated with the idea that Bronze Tiger can't win here. All throughout this entire thread Bronze Tiger's ability to win has been underestimated. You say that one fight was use, "cherry picking" I think it was. There were more than one fight that was used. But because they're per crisis events or crossover they can't be used.
And Slade was shot several times, got caught in explosion, and blasted from behind. But -Pr- did you "see" that when Slade was captured he had no wounds. He was still recovering, but his power are working 100%. In the next issue Slade was sitting on the train, on his way to meet up with his weapons creator. Slade was there to pick up his weapons and get back on the hunt to find the one who set him up.
So Slade was willing and able to continue on and deal with whatever got in his way. If Slade felt (or the writer) he still needed time to rest. Slade would have. And it is there that Bronze Tiger jumps out, attacking Slade. Tiger mentions that Slade has "been" hurt. But you didn't taking into consideration the amount of time Slade has had since then at all.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
-Pr- Look I don't really have a problem with you. But I can't be pushed around. And it don't happen in life. Out here it's real. This is online. So for someone to tell me to calm the F down. Is a joke to me, because you wouldn't say that to me in person. I didn't mean to come at you like that. that's my bad. But every post you placed in some way is leaning towards Steve favor. Then the fight with Slade is taken out of contexts. You think Slade was that badly hurt by the time Bronze Tiger attack? No, not at all. If it wasn't enough with some of these wanna be "cool kids" I have demeaning that fight, now I have a Moderator too. So that pissed me off. And then you tried to come at me and I had to shut that down.
Exactly. At least Pr was polite though, but yea its kinda frustrating.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
-
In the next issue Slade was sitting on the train, on his way to meet up with his weapons creator. Slade was there to pick up his weapons and get back on the hunt to find the one who set him up.So Slade was willing and able to continue on and deal with whatever got in his way. If Slade felt (or the writer) he still needed time to rest. Slade would have. And it is there that Bronze Tiger jumps out, attacking Slade. Tiger mentions that Slade has "been" hurt. But you didn't taking into consideration the amount of time Slade has had since then at all.
Got scans?
Originally posted by Deadline
Right, which isn't what I was doing anyway. I was saying he's more skilled than Batman because hes beaten Batman and an opponent that has beaten Batman. Matter of opinion, fine. Poor logic not it isn't.
which is ABC logic. it's in the rules.
especially considering the fact that batman has stalemated him and beaten him too.
i'll put it to you this way.
say batman fights bronze tiger, and tiger wins. then months, years pass, and batman fights, say:
Constantine Drakon, Richard Dragon, Batgirl, Black Canary and say... Jason Todd.
Batman beats them all, lets say, without PIS (just for example).
Tiger doesn't beat them all. He beats three of the five, maybe.
Who would you say is the superior fighter and more likely to win a rematch between the two?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
-Pr- Look I don't really have a problem with you. But I can't be pushed around. And it don't happen in life. Out here it's real. This is online. So for someone to tell me to calm the F down. Is a joke to me, because you wouldn't say that to me in person. I didn't mean to come at you like that. that's my bad. But every post you placed in some way is leaning towards Steve favor. Then the fight with Slade is taken out of contexts. You think Slade was that badly hurt by the time Bronze Tiger attack? No, not at all. If it wasn't enough with some of these wanna be "cool kids" I have demeaning that fight, now I have a Moderator too. So that pissed me off. And then you tried to come at me and I had to shut that down.Because ain't no man or woman gonna talk to me like I'm their child. I'm a grown ass man. So don't take it personal. But I'm just very irritated with the idea that Bronze Tiger can't win here. All throughout this entire thread Bronze Tiger's ability to win has been underestimated. You say that one fight was use, "cherry picking" I think it was. There were more than one fight that was used. But because they're per crisis events or crossover they can't be used.
And Slade was shot several times, got caught in explosion, and blasted from behind. But -Pr- did you "see" that when Slade was captured he had no wounds. He was still recovering, but his power are working 100%. In the next issue Slade was sitting on the train, on his way to meet up with his weapons creator. Slade was there to pick up his weapons and get back on the hunt to find the one who set him up.
So Slade was willing and able to continue on and deal with whatever got in his way. If Slade felt (or the writer) he still needed time to rest. Slade would have. And it is there that Bronze Tiger jumps out, attacking Slade. Tiger mentions that Slade has "been" hurt. But you didn't taking into consideration the amount of time Slade has had since then at all.
i'm irish, i swear at everyone. shrug
as far as the fight goes, I don't know who wins. I'm commenting on the scans as i read them, and giving my opinion on said scans.
The truth is that while I know plenty about Steve (which would probably surprise a lot of people), I don't know as much about Bronze Tiger, so I'm not the kind of person you'd come to for an opinion about him. The only reason I even came in to this thread in the first place was because it was getting so many reports.