Originally posted by Philosophía
It's not a viable tactic, logical arguments are. You should try them from time to time.
Are you kidding me? Granted, I've made a few personal comments here and there, but the vast majority of my posts were logical arguments that completely refuted yours.
Have you been reading my replies at all or do you simply skip to the end or something?
Originally posted by Philosophía
The fact that you're feeling backed into a corner is not me being condescending, it's you being wrong.
Whaaaaaaaaat? Backed into a corner? Since when? :-/ Stop making stuff up pls.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Oh, how you've hurt the "Superman fanboy" community. Aw, the "I thought so much more of you before this!" card. Well, I'm sorry to say I don't share this opinion, I knew how bright you were going into this discussion. But I was bored, so I decided to have some fun.
I actually did have a bit of respect for you prior to this thread, the fact that you seem to believe it's some sort of "card" when someone actually wishes to debate in a respectful manner seems to point out that you don't understand the value of debating with a little bit of maturity (w/c is kinda sad). A little introspection and a little growing up might be in order here.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Now, to the actual discussion and getting over the drama queening.
My comments were for your benefit more than it was for my own.
Originally posted by Philosophía
"Hulk had him on his knees after the attack, eventough as he delivered the attack he had to break free of Silver Surfer’s attack trying to stop him. " Which of this part is me interpreting that scene, and which is actually directly presenting what was shown in the issue?ermmnone
Well, I guess you COMPLETELY ignore what was written and drawn in dialogue and art AFTER The hit occurred and simply make up scenarios and exaggerate circumstances, I GUESS you can interpret it that way.
Seems a little desperate, tho.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Other than getting knocked the **** off of his board, and resorting to using it to knock Bill in the back of the head instead of continuing the frontal assault - that ended in him being on his ass, he was COMPLETLY FINE! You're right, Surfer should have bled or been knocked out. That's a true sign of him being affected.
Lemme get this straight, are you saying that getting tossed around is equal to getting hurt? You might wanna look at your logic a little bit, cuz it sucks.
He was completely fine. You can even see the utter indifference that was drawn in his face AND the indifference in the dialogue right after the hits. Got any proof otherwise or are we going by your "just because" argument again?
Originally posted by Philosophía
He got knocked on his ass by two attacks from a second-rate Thor, and resorted to *****-tactics in order to gain the advantage. You going "but there were no .. umm... bruises and stuff" is the typical bullshittery that I don't have time for.
Pffft. Haha. I see you and Spire subscribe to the "I'll misinterpret the whole story just to downplay what occured" technique of debating. Cognitive bias at its best, right here.
BRB might be a "second rate" Thor but, unlike Superman, he's at least actually busted planets on-panel.
Panet-busting power that the Surfer simply shrugged off. Yes, Surfer suffered NO damage whatsoever other than being tossed (w/c should happen when a lighter body gets hit by planet-busting impact attacks). He had no indications of pain, damage or any kind of aftereffect from the hits at all. Not by artwork, narration or dialogue. You trying to make things up to suit your argument notwithstanding (and is kinda sad, too).
Originally posted by Philosophía
I love how you fell right into that one.You use skyfather+ Herc as viable durability feat for Surfer and at the same time don't dispute Odin KTFO him easily as PIS (at least you chose the best of the two wrongs, am I right? 😂). Which one is it an accurate representation of Surfer, Chaos War Hercules not being able to knock him out or Odin being able to? Let's take this analysis a step further. Was Hercules using the full extent of his powers? Was Hercules even aware of the full extent of his powers? What are the chances that Hercules risked killing Surfer and used one of the skyfather+ attacks?
Not really.
Other than the fact that one is post and one is pre-Annihilation Surfer?
High showings and low showings are used to establish a range in w/c a character's abilities are measured. I can say that a gas station managed to hurt Superman and say that you "fell right into that one", too. But I really would just be cherry picking low feats now, wouldn't I?
BTW, you should be able to cherry pick a liiiittle better than that. :-/
Originally posted by Philosophía
I want the scans btw. Now.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/4608109/Chaos_War_2_022.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/4608111/Chaos_War_2_023.jpg.html
Herc struck him with a punch that was meant to KO him, tho he got tossed (and obviously hurt by it), he managed to shake off the hit within a few panels.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Beta Ray Bill was going toe to toe with the same Thor and got the better of him. There have been numerous debates and the amp is questionable to say the least.
Everyone can stall anyone in comics. This same Thor faced down the entire infinity watch and the Surfer (something he hasn't ever done in the past). I guess with a skewed bias towards a specific conclusion, you can argue one thing, but evidence points otherwise.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Surfer never got any upgrade. He was just restored.
haermm
W/c is debatable because there has been a stark difference between his performance prior to the upgrade compared to his recent showings (FYI, All the low showings you keep throwing in were PRE-Annihilation Surfer and the majority of the showings I threw in were all post-upgrade. See a pattern here?).
Originally posted by Philosophía
I was expecting it, but I still laughed. I love you how get into stuff you either have absolutly no clue on.
Doomsday was weakened after hundreds of thousand of years of imprisonment - he is powered by solar energy, the same as Superman. He was getting getting more powerful as the fight progressed. But even Doomsday at his lowest powerlevel not only in that arc but in history was capable of punching so hard that he was registering seismic activities all over the country.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/WeakenedDoomsdayGettingFree.jpg
Actually, you just proved my point. Nice how you fell into that one. LOL.
DD wasn't at his best during this arc. YOU were the one who posted the "Superman no-selling Doomsday's punch" feat. I simply stated that the whole feat is not impressive as DOS DD (SPECIFICALLY that DD who punched Superman on that scan) wasn't at full power and, thus, making the feat not all that impressive.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I also love how you're using collateral damage as somehow proof of how impressive the fight is.
Ignoring the fact that it's an asinine standpoint, they didn't just "break some nearby glass".
The force of their blows shattered windows from Metropolis to Gotham. Buildings and homes shifted on their foundations.http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/FightBlowsDestruction.jpg
Their final blows shook the planet to its core.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ShakingPlanetCore.jpg
Tho, it IS true that collateral damage is NOT definitive evidence of the power of a strike on most cases. When COLATERRAL DAMAGE is being used as a storytelling tool to describe the power of the blows (w/c is what was done by the writer in this case), I believe that it CAN be used as a means of measurement.
Basically, that was the punch that nearly killed Superman putting him into a coma. All it did was shake the planet and break windows. Not all that impressive. Thor's single hit against a Celestial shattered cities and entire mountain ranges. Surfer's and Morg's attack against each other wrecked a planet (btw, Surfer was still pretty much unharmed after that and your boy Supe's was literally comatose after DD's punch).
Originally posted by Philosophía
Forum consesus? Wow, you sure brought down a whole world of arguments down on me.
Several of those posting in favor of BRB are known Superman or (at the very least) DC supporters and are just as knowledgeable as you are. Hell, even your boy Spire seems to think so.
If you chose to arrogantly ignore their opinions/arguments because you believe your opinion is the only one that is correct. It's up to you.
Originally posted by Philosophía
😂Amazing, again.
Nice "arguments" right there. :-/
Originally posted by Philosophía
What does he have to do with, like I said, "The fact that top Green Lanterns are capable of amping to high-end levels that allow them to go up against the likes of Mongul and Cyborg Superman is. "?
The fact that Guy wasn't exactly impressively portrayed as a high-end Green Lantern at the time especially compared to more recent portrayals of GL's (I'm sure you'll use some ABC logic to "counter" this argument soon enough)? :-/
Originally posted by Philosophía
The blackhole was not released because Superman caught it in his hand, the containment field was destroyed and no longer contained it. Thus why he was specifically mentioning the incredible pressure he's feeling, and why he and John made a magnetic field to contain it.
Miniature black holes happen all the time in Hadron Colliders. Fact: in black holes, size DOES matter.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Strength and durability have nothing to do with how powerful a character is? Holding a black hole in your hand is not an impressive raw power feat? Thank you for sharing that.
Yep, it isn't. You're welcome. I hope you learned a few things now and can come out of this debate a little wiser.
Originally posted by Philosophía
He tanks it with his own durability, unlike Surfer, who has been shown to protect himself and be powered by blackholes. He was also taken by surprise, unlike Surfer who was aware what he was heading for. And speaking of which, Superman has also done better than Thanos against blackholes. Surfer more durable than Thanos? Superman more durable than Thanos? Random Green Lantern rookies more durable than Thanos?
W/c wasn't shown on-panel that he was actively doing so. Just because someone CAN doesn't mean that they're AUTOMATICALLY doing so. Get it thru your thick skull and stop making stuff up. Sheesh.
Fail comparison. Bad logic.
Thanos has no (to my memory) black hole showings. Superman and the Surfer does. Surfer did better than Superman.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I guess that makes a lot of sense in the no-penis-allowed silver world, right?
What does having/not having penises have anything to do with anything? Is this the reason why you hate the Surfer and like Superman so much?
Originally posted by Philosophía
Surfer taking a beating from Tenebrous and Aegis is valid, thus why I specifically countered it with better feats, both from Superman, aswell as various other characters like Thor and Surfer, who have gone up against beings that have Eternity analogues on the run, celestials and the likes of Spectre, stood up and kept fighting, unlike Surfer who was left for dead in a few blows.
You didn't "counter" it with anything. You showed a vague Superman showing and simply interpreted it the way you wanted to. Cognitive BIAS at its best. You were right on the Thor and SURFER feats, tho.
Originally posted by Philosophía
What I specifically laughed at was you saying Surfer "survived something that killed abstracts", which reffers to the latter part of the crunch feat, where he redirected it twoards Tenebrous and Aegis.
He dipped himself in it. It killed T&A (albeit perhaps their M-bodies only). He survived it (albeit momentarily). What's wrong with that logic?
Originally posted by Philosophía
Captain Marvel wasn't amped when he took on Spectre, but I'm not surprised that you have no ideea what you're talking about, again.
Not that CM is even relevant to this debate. But this only really proves that we're referencing different showings. :-/ Nice accusatory leap of logic tho.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman was not amped against Dominus, Quantum Mechanic or if we're going to go a step further, when he withstood energy attacks from Soulfire amped Darkseid and the Source, when he plowed through the weakness-based magical assault of Mordru and punched his teeth out, tanked attacks from the Entropy-Aegis armor (which is exactly what it sounds), tanked attacks from the Wizard Shazam in quick succesion and just waded through them, took multiple attacks from Kingdom Gog's staff trying to kill him (you know, the one that blows holes through 5th dimensional beings like Mxy) etc. Superman actually beats the characters who are at least skyfather in his universe (Darkseid for example - contrary to popular belief has feats to match any skyfather).
Sigh. Yet another feat-blitz. Would be nice if you presented each feat and presented them with why you think they're suitable evidence and SOME logic to prove your point other than: "Superman did this, did that, did this, toooo! You don't knowww what yar tokin 'bout! LOL! LOL! /facepalm! LOL". :-/
And DS's showing goes from herald level (such as having trouble going h2h vs Orion/batkick) to (sometimes at his BEST) skyfather, (tho at their best, a lot of characters can be portrayed as Skyfather level) using ABC logic using a character with such obvious drastic ups/downs in power/showings then using them as a means of "proving" that Superman takes on Skyfathers. :-/
Originally posted by Philosophía
He regulary takes on abstracts and wins.
You went from "fights skyfathers" to "regularly takes on abstracts and wins".
Wow. Just... Wow.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Anyway, I'm bored. Spire has adressed some of your other idiocies, I've facepalmed at others, so it's my last words on this topic, as playing tennis with brick walls gets boring after a while.
Ah. Running away now are we? Concession accepted.
Btw, Spire made 2 "arguments":
1) That an offhand editor comment about THOR not having any superspeed somehow proves that the Surfer has no Superspeed. W/c I then refuted via a single scan.
2) That the OHOTMU is some kind of irrefutable proof as well.
The fact that you believe he "addressed" anything at all shows your wanton bias and willingness to ignore proper logic.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Cosmic senses are no different than the rings ability to scan. Surfer doesn't just know stuff like he's some cosmic mother love psychich. He has to scan just like everyone else.
Surfer senses sh1t happening in other galaxies without even focusing on it. His Cosmic Awareness works to understand the focus of his attention directly.Cosmic Awareness isn't an iPhone app that syncs you up with a database. The GL rings are. To be fair, so is the Worldmind frankly.
Not exactly, Surfers CA is more so connected to the cosmic balance of the universe, as in it automatically tells him any subtle changes of the universe. Like for example during Infinity Gauntlet saga when half the universe population cease to exist or during the Rune crossover or The Devil's reign crossover were both the event was pick up by Surfer via CA and was then able to intervene..
Like OneDumb. Said it works diff. Than say Nova's worldmind or the power rings..
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You might wanna look at your logic a little bit, cuz it sucks.He was completely fine. You can even see the utter indifference that was drawn in his face AND the indifference in the dialogue
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Originally posted by Philosophía
You use skyfather+ Herc as viable durability feat for Surfer and at the same time don't dispute Odin KTFO him easily as PIS (at least you chose the best of the two wrongs, am I right? 😂). Which one is it an accurate representation of Surfer, Chaos War Hercules not being able to knock him out or Odin being able to? Let's take this analysis a step further. Was Hercules using the full extent of his powers? Was Hercules even aware of the full extent of his powers? What are the chances that Hercules risked killing Surfer and used one of the skyfather+ attacks?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Other than the fact that one is post and one is pre-Annihilation Surfer?I can say that a gas station managed to hurt Superman and say that you "fell right into that one", too. But I really would just be cherry picking low feats now, wouldn't I?
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Originally posted by Philosophía
Beta Ray Bill was going toe to toe with the same Thor and got the better of him. There have been numerous debates and the amp is questionable to say the least.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Everyone can stall anyone in comics.
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Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Yeah, the same Doomsday who took how long to get out of an alien coffin and bust out of the ground? :-/All the combined force of DDs and Superman's punches did in that arc was shatter nearby glass...
Yeah, he SURE is impressive. Geez, how did I fail to see that?? 😮 You, sir, have shown me the light.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Doomsday was weakened after hundreds of thousand of years of imprisonment - he is powered by solar energy, the same as Superman. He was getting getting more powerful as the fight progressed. But even Doomsday at his lowest powerlevel not only in that arc but in history was capable of punching so hard that he was registering seismic activities all over the country.http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/WeakenedDoomsdayGettingFree.jpg
I also love how you're using collateral damage as somehow proof of how impressive the fight is.
Ignoring the fact that it's an asinine standpoint, they didn't just "break some nearby glass".
The force of their blows shattered windows from Metropolis to Gotham. Buildings and homes shifted on their foundations.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/FightBlowsDestruction.jpg
Their final blows shook the planet to its core.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/ShakingPlanetCore.jpg
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, you just proved my point. Nice how you fell into that one. LOL.
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Originally posted by D_Dude1210
And DS's showing goes from herald level (such as having trouble going h2h vs Orion/batkick)
And those are just a few from one reply. I re-state:
Originally posted by Philosophía
I truly feel sorry for you.
Cut/pasting editing my replies now? Nicceee.
Originally posted by Philosophía
You use skyfather+ Herc as viable durability feat for Surfer and at the same time don't dispute Odin KTFO him easily as PIS (at least you chose the best of the two wrongs, am I right? :lolsmile. Which one is it an accurate representation of Surfer, Chaos War Hercules not being able to knock him out or Odin being able to? Let's take this analysis a step further. Was Hercules using the full extent of his powers? Was Hercules even aware of the full extent of his powers? What are the chances that Hercules risked killing Surfer and used one of the skyfather+ attacks?
Is answered by:
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
High showings and low showings are used to establish a range in w/c a character's abilities are measured. I can say that a gas station managed to hurt Superman and say that you "fell right into that one", too. But I really would just be cherry picking low feats now, wouldn't I?
Originally posted by Philosophía
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Concession accepted. Nice cut/paste edit and dot.dot.dot debating style. A little desperate now, aren't we?
