Wolverine vs Captain America

I'm not sure why every one is talking about killing Wolverine, per the OP Cap just has to stop him.

As with most fights I have never understood why people tend to default to a kill as being the only winning condition.

In this case the OP says he has to stop Logan, for all we know him may be able to talk him down, but even ignoring that. He may be able to tie him up or knock him out. If a bullet to the head can do it I imagine Cap with his shield has a chance. Hell somebody stronger or considerable more skilled has a shot at making him "tap out" in the metaphorical sense.

Their are other things to consider, like Wolverine breathes so what's to stop somebody from choking him out or drowning him.

True, someone could just hold down logan under water and that's it for him. But I doubt cap is strong enough to do that.

Still, movie Wolverine looked like he has had no formal hand to hand fight training. Guys like Mystique and Gambit were running cirlces around him.

So I think Cap will give him a huge beat down for almost an entire day... until such time that Cap is completely exhausted and then Logan will heal and stab through Cap.

Originally posted by Robtard
He was right though, Jean's personality surfaced and held back DP's full fury long enough for Wolverine to get in and stab her. She wanted to die, she said so. He was the only one that could have done it though with the exception of maybe Colossus, no one else could have withstood the restrained attacks DP was still unleashing.

He was wrong, in my opinion, actually. And I explained why.

Originally posted by Robtard
If DP had been in full control, every cell of Wolverines flesh could/would have instantly been turned to ash like every other mutant.

Incorrect, that was, at best, PIS. At worst, it was an incongruent portrayal for Wolverine's powers. There is literally no difference in the intensity and volume of the "DP Plasma" when he was approaching. In other words, a conclusion that leads you to say things like you did above is baseless. You have no way to prove that she held back when there is literally no indication that she did. You are basing it off of Wolverine's cells not turning to dust, instantly, but the evidence for your reasons is not there: she held back. She did not. She didn't change anything at all.

I explained it right here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
That said, here's my opinion on the events in X-3:

I think that saying Jean was holding back not to hurt Logan so he could kill her misses the very essence and importance of that scene. That scene was to show that Xavier was right: she will destroy everything, including herself. It was "foreshadowing" told to us earlier in the film. She DID lose control as he (Xavier) had feared and she could not "revert" to a more controlled state: she was stuck in the "plasma" mode. She was, at that point, begging to have her life ended as she realized that Xavier was right, the whole time: she was completely out of control and could not stop herself. It was the the best writing in the movie, by far, and was rather out of place for the mostly superficial writing that occurred. I think that those that say Jean was holding back so Wolverine could kill her, really miss the best writing in the film. The point was for her to not be in control at all and to have gone to the point of no return, thus proving the foreshadowing right by Xavier and putting her in the position of having to chose only death as a release to her state. The only person that could deliver that was Wolverine: the only one with a fast healing factor AND an adamantium skeleton. What made that moment in film more powerful was his love for Jean. Even Logan's "Jean" fanboyism could not be overcome for his realization of responsibility.

Again, this is my opinion on what occurred and not fact.

What it boils down to is your interpretation of the film.

You say it's obvious she held because he wasn't vaped. I say you missed a gigantic piece of some of the best writing in the film by concluding that.

Yeah, except, you can see Jean come through for a few moments and not DP. So that.

What you say would amount to some of the worst writing, if she wasn't holding back, she had other methods in stopping Wolverine if somehow his flesh was immune to being vaporized instantly like the others. EG telekinesis, mental assault.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, except, you can see Jean come through for a few moments and not DP. So that.

Except the problem with that line of thinking is a DP-only power remained on and literally did not show any signs of weakening. So that.

Originally posted by Robtard
What you say would amount to some of the worst writing, if she wasn't holding back, she had other methods in stopping Wolverine if somehow his flesh was immune to being vaporized instantly like the others. EG telekinesis, mental assault.

No, what I say shows (I already covered this so this makes me think that you didn't even read what I quoted of myself) that it is a much more complex plot than people give the movie credit for. Lastly, you can come up with anything you like to try and reconcile an obviously conflicted scene: you can choose to believe what you want beacuse there's no director or "making of" commentary that clears it up. It boils down to opinion.

After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Thank you.

I love you. 😐

Originally posted by dadudemon
Thank you.

I love you. 😐

The DP part, also the love.

******.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Except the problem with that line of thinking is a DP-only power remained on and literally did not show any signs of weakening. So that.

No, what I say shows (I already covered this so this makes me think that you didn't even read what I quoted of myself) that it is a much more complex plot than people give the movie credit for. Lastly, you can come up with anything you like to try and reconcile an obviously conflicted scene: you can choose to believe what you want beacuse there's no director or "making of" commentary that clears it up. It boils down to opinion.

It not obliterating all of Logan's flesh instantly as it did the others is the sign that she was holding back cos of her butt-love for Logan. So that. Makes more sense than Logan having super-duper tough skin and flesh.

Again, if she had every intent on killing Logan up until the point he stabbed her as you claim, the the story sucks even more, as she had more in her arsenal in stopping Logan than turning people into ash if Logan somehow could resist being instantly turned to nothing but and and a shiny skeleton. Agreed, overall it is opinion based on what's shown to us. Also, your opinion is far sillier than mine.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Just like a Wolverine fanboy to say "Wolverine pwns Dark Phoenix".

Originally posted by Robtard
It not obliterating all of Logan's flesh instantly as it did the others is the sign that she was holding back cos of her butt-love for Logan. So that. Makes more sense than Logan having super-duper tough skin and flesh.

Wrong.

She didn't hold back and, instead, blasted him with even more.

Here's the real reason:

"Incorrect, that was, at best, PIS. At worst, it was an incongruent portrayal for Wolverine's powers."

This point is not debatable, actually, because the movie directly contradicts you. This line of reasoning will not be discussed, anymore. If you wish to have an incorrect view of what happened, that's okay: but it's not going to fly in any vs. discussion.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, if she had every intent on killing Logan up until the point he stabbed her as you claim, the the story sucks even more, as she had more in her arsenal in stopping Logan than turning people into ash if Logan somehow could resist being instantly turned to nothing but and and a shiny skeleton. Agreed, overall it is opinion based on what's shown to us. Also, your opinion is far sillier than mine.

The crux of your argument was destroyed, already. Further conclusions based off of that are simply wrong.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
After viewing X3 today, here's what I saw:

DP was pms raging, destroying everything around her. She was completely DP at the time. Logan began walking towards her, so she began hitting him with attacks, but his regen kept them from destroying him. As he neared, DP asked "You would die for them?" DP was completely in control. It was only when Logan said "No, not for them, for you", that Jean resurfaced.

So yes, DP was hitting Logan with her best shots.

Cap has a gun and shield, Logan has his leather coat, bottle of beer and his claws. Who wins?

Is Vibranium>Adamantium?

Wakandan Vibranium is basically on the same strength level as Adamantium, with the difference being that Vibranium isn't just strong, it absorbs energy directed at it. That's why Cap can stand behind it and get punched by Hulk without having his arms broken, if he had an adamantium one, every impact would break bones. Although Cap's shield isn't 100% vibranium.

Merged.

If Captain America has his shield, and it's to the KO, IMO he can knock Logan out with a well-placed throw, something definitely not outside of Cap's capabilties. I say the man in Stars and Stripes takes this.

Cap wins this.. Logan doesn't have a defense when Cap throws his shield and knocks Logan out..

besides his claws won't do anything to the shield

I'd actually agree that Roger wins. While he isn't that skilled in H2H combat. Neither is Wolverine really. Assuming that the shield can withstand admantium(the movie explains the shield is solely vibranium, whereas the 616 version is a composite alloy of both vibranium and steel) then I don't see Wolverine getting around the shield.

Rogers is obviously better than Wolverine in every physical area and Wolverine has shown that he can be knocked out by a bullet to the head so I'd wager a well-placed shield throw(which Cap is fully capable of) should do alot of damage.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wait an pee..see.

The shield is better than wolvie's adamantium, in the comics, because it is adamantium and vibranium.

Depends on who is faster. The movie wolverine was pretty damn slow compared to his VERY agile comic book counterpart.

Basically, it boils down to this:

Peak human, in every aspect, versus superhuman.

Superhuman in strength, endurance, agility, sight, hearing, taste.

Seems like a no-brainer, to me.

Since wolverine canNOT be killed, he wins via endurance.

exactly. I really dont know what people expect that Cap is going to do here. Caps shield would probably bounce off of wolverines admantium skeleton. advanced healing factor, heightened senses. Caps shield is indestructible and all but Wolverine is...,well Wolverine. Wolverine just needs one strick on Cap for the match to be over.

If this were a fight to the KO instead...,Captain america.