You sweiously quoted yourself igniz?
Why because your argument is full of bs?
The fact that chaos king represents something older than our universe does not mean he had the power of the entire multiverse. Eternity represents all of time and space and yet.. Only represses the 616 universe...
You are reaching for arguments that have no verired relation to te chaos king.
Chaos king on panel is only state to have destroyed the multiverse by cho. You try to use the argument that all reality was destroyed...
Guess what athena refers to all of creation... And then claims it's only THIS universe... Hercules te man that restored everything only restored a universe...
For all your arguments that cho knew that 98% of the multiverse was being destroyed blah blah blah... You directly argue with te on panel statement from te character that restored everything!!! And from the woman that's been planning for the event for millennia!!!
Let's see... Listen to the gods who claim it wa a universe only... Or listen to cho ... And use twitter accounts. The fact that you have to use twitter accounts verifies your debating skills. None. Lol.
And guess what... If you look at the twitter accounts it doesn't even say chaos king was a multiversal power.. Justices what hr represented came from before our universe and galans!
He was gainin power throughout the issues by defeating demons gods and skyfathers... After that that's all he had. You never displayed any other power than that...the twitter account doesn't even state he was living tribunal level.. Toaa level or even multiversal. It says he represents something before all others...
He's always represented it remember? And he's een defeated before by much less than abstracts....
I'm in bold. Igniz is not. 😛
Its weird when you don't believe Amadeus Cho's statement of CK destroying 98.76% of the Multiverse and how you say CK only destroyed one Universe and yet now you use his statement to prove Galactus is the Oldest Entity in the Universe to disprove CK is not the oldest Entity in the Marvel Universe or Multiverse?
I never said CK wasn't the oldest being in the multiverse
Now you're just net picking.Did you know that Multi-Eternity aka True Eternity represents all of the Multiverse(FFAnnual2001)?Which makes him Multiversal.And the fact the Chaos King was proven an abstract by Eternity(which would still represents Multi-Eternity) in Chaos War#2.
You have nothing to prove that was "multi eternity" or a multiversal being that was referring to the Chaos King. Thats your opinion and nothing else
There is only one Living Tribunal(which makes him Multiversal).There is only one Abraxas(which also makes him Multiversal).
This is true
Now can you prove there is a Chaos King from another Universe(unless retconned of course)?FYI there is nothing wrong with asking the writers. Since the writers are the one writing this and they are the ones who could shed some light into what they write.And its funny that you are using the comic that FVL and GP wrote as proof and then complain when someone uses their interview that happens to describe what is happening in the comic event they wrote or how they describes the main baddie in said event as proof.Weird huh?
Forum Rules:
No Non-canon Sources
An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats.
Originally posted by rotiart
[B]Forum Rules:
No Non-canon Sources
An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. [/B]
I wasn't the one who posted the Interview.And I only interpreted it the way it is.Again, there's on panel proof CK was the Marvel Universe/Multiverse.Thrann even mentions CK being pawned by the first mover(TOAA) to start creation in Chaos War:Chaos King,Hera in Assault on New Olympus mentions about creation and her plans about the continuum, and even Gaea in Chaos War#4 also mentions emerging from the darkness.Chaos War is about a villain who wants to return everything into the quiet Void,Darkness, and Chaos.And its fairly obvious the writer used a lot of creation myths as references to describe the main bad guy(who happens to be an abstract).Again the reason I said Eternity(aspect) can still represent Multi-Eternity.Take for ex Izanami(Gaea) who happens to be Japan's earth goddess.In the Marvel Universe, she's an aspect of Gaea.This means Izanami represents Gaea.Now since you believe CK is not Multiversal.Can you say every Eternity in every Universe has a dark half that is CK?
Just asking.
I really don't care what the heck you think you are interpreting. Apply the rules of the freaking forum.
Athena states all they saved was a universe.
Hercules states he restored everything using all his power. He states all he restored was the universe.
Galactus uses his power to create a portal big enough to transfer the people of our universe to another universe.
Chaos king, if his goal was to wipe out the multiverse... Seemed content absorbing only a single universe. The continuum.
The gods of zenn la are just like the asgardians. They exist potentially in other universes. Just like the Japanese gods... And as such other beings like mikaboshi. You can't disprove it. You can't prove it.
Eternity states what mikaboshi represents. It's never stated his level of power rivaled or exceeded eternity. The Phoenix represents the energies of creation itself and we all saw what xorn did to Jean... Representing an ideal doesn't make your power level absolute
I personally do agree that the First Mover was indeed the true Creator (God) who tore apart the Chaos King's Primordial Void and cast him into one of the pantheons of Earth. How Izanagi and Izanami (Gaea) themselves fit into the One-Above-All's creation and Mikaboshi, I'm not sure, though it may be possible that while TOAA destroyed the Void dominating the UNIVERSE, the Kami (and possibly other pantheons) together banished the void dominating Earth.
As for the Multiverse/Universe issue...I do agree that it was very vaguely explained in Chaos War...I think that the Chaos King WAS indeed mainly focused upon the Earth-616 reality, attacking the various afterlives and dimensions that reality contained, but if he HAD managed to absorb it, yes, then I think he might have attempted to control the entire Multiverse. Maybe the Chaos King really was all that existed before existence itself, but I think the Chaos King we saw was still only an aspect of the "true" primal Chaos.
Originally posted by Falamu
I personally do agree that the First Mover was indeed the true Creator (God) who tore apart the Chaos King's Primordial Void and cast him into one of the pantheons of Earth. How Izanagi and Izanami (Gaea) themselves fit into the One-Above-All's creation and Mikaboshi, I'm not sure, though it may be possible that while TOAA destroyed the Void dominating the UNIVERSE, the Kami (and possibly other pantheons) together banished the void dominating Earth.
Agreed that the first mover is TOAA.One could say "the first mover" name is one of the supreme being's aliases.As for how Amatsu-Mikaboshi/Chaos King ended up in the Japanese Pantheon, you'll be surprised how well FVL and GP integrated Amatsu-Mikaboshi into being the Void,Darkness, and Chaos that existed before creation in the Marvel Universe after reading the story behind Ama-No-Kagaseo.Here it is.
http://wiki.white-wolf.com/camwiki/index.php?title=Ama-no-Kagaseo
This is what is openly known of the Kagaseo, before this, perhaps a hundred years, we formed out of the darkness, One of the Kindred of Japan who was seeking something within the darkness found enlightenment through its meditation and eventually the voice of Amatsu-Mikaboshi was heard to its ears. It is said that in order to bring the world back to the darkness, decisive chaos and passion had to be released into the world once more. So it was sent out into the world to slowly gather followers dedicated to bringing Mikaboshi back into the world.As time went on, slowly, more and more people began to follow the Kagaseo and the promise of bringing Mikaboshi back using its own body as the host for such.
If we go by this, its the cheapest way of explaining how CK ended up in the Japanese Pantheon.
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Can't believe people who claim they read the event are trying to pimp CK out to be multiversal. He was Universal as stated on panel again and again and again and proven by him being totally cool with 1 single Universe in the end.
Amatsu-Mikaboshi/Chaos King was the Void,Darkness,and Chaos that existed before creation.There would be no Multiverse if TOAA didn't pawn him in the first place to start creation.And Defenders#3 V3 proves that CK is the Dark half of Multi-Eternity(Multiversal) as well.Here's the scan of Dormammu planning to remake only 1 Universe after pawning 616 Eternity.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Untitled-04.jpg?t=1303188478
And here's Dormammu seeing Universes indicating he is no longer inside 616 Eternity but inside Multi-Eternity itself.He also starts seeing the "Oceanic Void and wave of Eternal Nothingness which happens to be what CK represents that is inside Multi-Eternity.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Untitled-05.jpg?t=1303188526
Which makes what Eternity said in Chaos War#2 to be actually true and not Hyperbole.
Read Chaos War: Saga for more information on this. Apparently the Creation event and the birth of a past Eternity (BEFORE the current universe's Eternity) cast Mikaboshi into one of the many pantheons, where he would become one of "the bleakest purveyors of entropy" and such. The Saga also said that Cho was part of the God Squad because he actually retained some of his godly powers...
As for Mikaboshi's true origins, here is my theory: After the Creator willed the Marvel Universe into existence, bringing forth life and light from primal Chaos, Mikaboshi and his void was forced back and severely weakened with Eternity's birth (or rebirth). But even in this limited aspect, Mikaboshi was able to eventually dominate Earth, which may or may not have for whatever reason been central in Creation itself, in a dark void around the time the Elder Gods faded away. But then more gods emerged forth, and when they reached Earth from their own realms, they simultaneously began acts of "creation" that weakened Mikaboshi further, and the Kami (perhaps with the aid of the Elder Goddess Gaea, known to them as Izanami) eventually had him sealed in the Shinto Underworld, until, of course, he conquered it and its demons from within and attacked the Kami and the other pantheons for the second time...but, still, he was beaten again, and thus FURTHER weakened. Maybe the reason the gods fell before him was that the Kami were able to best him was that the incarnation of Mikaboshi's void dominating Earth itself was incomplete and inchoate...but, still, I'm not sure. No one is.
Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~he also was stated to be multiversal, again and again and again
Can't believe people who claim they read the event are trying to pimp CK out to be multiversal. He was Universal as stated on panel again and again and again and proven by him being totally cool with 1 single Universe in the end.
Originally posted by Falamuthe kami gods went into a dimension where the reamains of mikaboshi was and created there realm there .he was then forced to there underworld by them.
Read Chaos War: Saga for more information on this. Apparently the Creation event and the birth of a past Eternity (BEFORE the current universe's Eternity) cast Mikaboshi into one of the many pantheons, where he would become one of "the bleakest purveyors of entropy" and such. The Saga also said that Cho was part of the God Squad because he actually retained some of his godly powers...As for Mikaboshi's true origins, here is my theory: After the Creator willed the Marvel Universe into existence, bringing forth life and light from primal Chaos, Mikaboshi and his void was forced back and severely weakened with Eternity's birth (or rebirth). But even in this limited aspect, Mikaboshi was able to eventually dominate Earth, which may or may not have for whatever reason been central in Creation itself, in a dark void around the time the Elder Gods faded away. But then more gods emerged forth, and when they reached Earth from their own realms, they simultaneously began acts of "creation" that weakened Mikaboshi further, and the Kami (perhaps with the aid of the Elder Goddess Gaea, known to them as Izanami) eventually had him sealed in the Shinto Underworld, until, of course, he conquered it and its demons from within and attacked the Kami and the other pantheons for the second time...but, still, he was beaten again, and thus FURTHER weakened. Maybe the reason the gods fell before him was that the Kami were able to best him was that the incarnation of Mikaboshi's void dominating Earth itself was incomplete and inchoate...but, still, I'm not sure. No one is.
