Galactus vs Earth Pantheons - Whom Gods Destroy

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I read the story. Liked it.

I can re-read the story if need be. Just tell me the most relevant issue number. IIRC, they didn't focus that much on the Abstracts.

Be more specific. When you quote a post, everything is automatically bolded. I don't think any of them fled. Not with what was at stake. It's possible the Celestials might have gotten bored and just left. Most likely in my opinion, there physical bodies fell fighting (Doubt any of them really died. At least not the Celestials).

Just common sense. If we're taking pot shots at what most likely happened, that's by far the most likely scenario in my opinion. If Galactus could hold the line on his own, why the hell were they still losing with a dozen other Abstracts all on his level and some arguably higher? Even if you assume Galactus is superior to other Abstracts, you can't possibly believe the gap would be large.

You don't have to check, because I checked for you. I couldn't find anything that remotely indicates that the Galactus Engine was weakening, weakened, or even damaged in the issues. Abstracts appeared in issue 2, 3, 5, and 6, you're free to look for yourself.

You said you didn't think any of the Celestials fled because of the stakes at hand, yet you think they might of left out of boredom? That doesn't really make sense. I still think they disappeared because they fled or their physical bodies died, leaving Galactus to take on the Engine himself.

Surfer also specifically pointed out if Galactus (not any other abstract) couldn't stop the engine, they'd all be toast. This also implies that Galactus was the most powerful on the field.

I don't know how large the gap is, he's clearly way above Aegis though. He's more powerful than the average Celestial that's for sure.

The evidence on this matter is on Vince's side not the other way around. Assumptions and presumptions aren't evidence.

Yo.

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why did he keep trembling?

finding something disturbing doesnt *not* automatically = FEAR

Tazer

Originally posted by vince_slice
You don't have to check, because I checked for you. I couldn't find anything that remotely indicates that the Galactus Engine was weakening, weakened, or even damaged in the issues. Abstracts appeared in issue 2, 3, 5, and 6, you're free to look for yourself.

You said you didn't think any of the Celestials fled because of the stakes at hand, yet you think they might of left out of boredom? That doesn't really make sense. I still think they disappeared because they fled or their physical bodies died, leaving Galactus to take on the Engine himself.

Surfer also specifically pointed out if Galactus (not any other abstract) couldn't stop the engine, they'd all be toast. This also implies that Galactus was the most powerful on the field.

I don't know how large the gap is, he's clearly way above Aegis though. He's more powerful than the average Celestial that's for sure.

I forgot to mention there's solid evidence that abstracts were retreating or fled. TI #3 page 19.

Blastaar: "The Galactus Engine is tearing through everything we have, even the abstracts seem to be in retreat"

Originally posted by vince_slice
I forgot to mention there's solid evidence that abstracts were retreating or fled. TI #3 page 19.

Blastaar: "The Galactus Engine is tearing through everything we have, [b]even the abstracts seem to be in retreat" [/B]

See what I underlined?

A lot of cynical interpretations in this thread. Since when does being the last man standing imply anything other than being the most powerful?! :/

Originally posted by zopzop
See what I underlined?

What's your point?

Originally posted by vince_slice
What's your point?

"Seems to be" in retreat doesn't mean they were retreating. Early in the series Nova was commenting that the Abstracts don't seem to be doing much of anything, but the Surfer told him, the battle was taking place on levels they couldn't comprehend. So it "seemed" to Blaastar that they were retreating but that doesn't mean they were.

Originally posted by zopzop
"Seems to be" in retreat doesn't mean they were retreating. Early in the series Nova was commenting that the Abstracts don't seem to be doing much of anything, but the Surfer told him, the battle was taking place on levels they couldn't comprehend. So it "seemed" to Blaastar that they were retreating but that doesn't mean they were.

Earlier you saw several abstracts fighting the Galactus Engine. Later, it was mentioned the abstracts were losing and Blastaar says the abstracts seem to be retreating. At the end, the only abstract left standing and fighting was Galactus.

Doesn't get as clear as that...

Originally posted by vince_slice
Earlier you saw several abstracts fighting the Galactus Engine. Later, it was mentioned the abstracts were losing and Blastaar says the abstracts seem to be retreating. At the end, the only abstract left standing and fighting was Galactus.

Doesn't get as clear as that...

Sure it does, first of all no one there was an actual abstract. Abstracts represent concepts like Anomaly, Death, Oblivion, Infinity, Hate, Order, etc.. If anything the beings present were Cosmics not Abstracts. What concept do the Celestials represent? Galactus? Aegis and Teneberous?

Second of all, is Blaastar more cosmically aware than Nova with WorldMind? If not, how would he know they were retreating as opposed to taking the fight to another plane of reality?

Originally posted by zopzop
Sure it does, first of all no one there was an actual abstract. Abstracts represent concepts like Anomaly, Death, Oblivion, Infinity, Hate, Order, etc.. If anything the beings present were Cosmics not Abstracts. What concept do the Celestials represent? Galactus? Aegis and Teneberous?

Second of all, is Blaastar more cosmically aware than Nova with WorldMind? If not, how would he know they were retreating as opposed to taking the fight to another plane of reality?

Your first point is arbitrary, I called them abstracts because the comic called them abstracts. But what we call them has nothing to do with the argument.

Not being able to perceive abstracts fighting =/= Not being able to tell if they're retreating.

Blastaar was right about them retreating because by the end of the book, the only abstract left fighting was Galactus. This was also reconfirmed by Surfer, and he was the one who originally perceived the abstracts fighting on another plane.

Like I said before:

1. Several abstracts were fighting the Galactus Engine

2. The abstracts were losing and one of them even died (Aegis)

3. Blastaar mentioned that the abstracts were retreating

4. By the end the only abstract left fighting the Engine was Galactus.

5. Surfer confirms that if Galactus can't beat the Engine they're all doomed.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Your first point is arbitrary, I called them abstracts because the comic called them abstracts. But what we call them has nothing to do with the argument.

Not being able to perceive abstracts fighting =/= Not being able to tell if they're retreating.

Blastaar was right about them retreating because by the end of the book, the only abstract left fighting was Galactus. This was also reconfirmed by Surfer, and he was the one who originally perceived the abstracts fighting on another plane.

Like I said before:

1. Several abstracts were fighting the Galactus Engine

2. The abstracts were losing and one of them even died (Aegis)

3. Blastaar mentioned that the abstracts were retreating

4. By the end the only abstract left fighting the Engine was Galactus.

5. Surfer confirms that if Galactus can't beat the Engine they're all doomed.

None of them were "abstracts", unless you can tell me what concept they represent.

Aegis has "died" before so it's meaningless.

Blastaar has no cosmic awareness so what he says doesn't matter, especially if it "seemed" to him as opposed to what is actually happening beyond his limited perception.

This was a rare good showing for Galactus? Even Sentry had the MM fight and Spiderman the Firelord fight. Everyone gets at least one. Congrats to the jobber king of cosmics.

Originally posted by zopzop
None of them were "abstracts", unless you can tell me what concept they represent.

Aegis has "died" before so it's meaningless.

Blastaar has no cosmic awareness so what he says doesn't matter, especially if it "seemed" to him as opposed to what is actually happening beyond his limited perception.

This was a rare good showing for Galactus? Even Sentry had the MM fight and Spiderman the Firelord fight. Everyone gets at least one. Congrats to the jobber king of cosmics.

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to argue here?

Are you trying to say Galactus didn't fight the Engine by himself? The "abstracts" weren't really losing against the Engine? The Celestials didn't really flee, they were there fighting all along, you just couldn't see them because we're mortals? 😂

You'd make a great news anchor for Fox News.

Originally posted by vince_slice
I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to argue here?

Are you trying to say Galactus didn't fight the Engine by himself? The "abstracts" weren't really losing against the Engine? The Celestials didn't really flee, they were there fighting all along, you just couldn't see them because we're mortals? 😂

You'd make a great news anchor for Fox News.

LOL you are so cool! 🙄

No really spazz, none of them were abstracts and "dying" to the cosmics is meaningless since two of the cosmics fighting "died" previously and yet here they were fighting.

The Surfer was wrong, because not only did Galactus NOT beat the Engine, an actual Abstract, Death, did.

How's that for my Fox News skills?

Originally posted by zopzop
"Seems to be" in retreat doesn't mean they were retreating. Early in the series Nova was commenting that the Abstracts don't seem to be doing much of anything, but the Surfer told him, the battle was taking place on levels they couldn't comprehend. So it "seemed" to Blaastar that they were retreating but that doesn't mean they were.

You're definitely arguing just for the sake of maintaining your position. The intent of DnA was quite clear by both their writing and sepulveda's art. Their intent was primarily to establish the Galactus Engine as a credible huge threat so they could set some dramatic tension. Having a character state that "even the abstracts seem to be in retreat" while arguing that couldn't be the case is really a straw man position since at no point in the rest of the story do you have any evidence supporting your conjecture. In fact the story STRONGLY supports the statement. In this case the burden of proof is on you that they didn't retreat, in other words, show evidence to the contrary.

You could nit-pick the fact that earlier in issue #2 Surfer tells Nova and Quasar that all is not as it seems for the battle, which is taking place on several planes of reality.

You could do that, but the point is moot since we've established that surfer is the authority in terms of perceiving what is going on in the battle. In that case, his blunt statement that if Galactus -and Galactus alone - could not stop the Galactus Engine, then all would be lost means that you have no basis to doubt the retreat statment. You're arguing a style of syntax and the logic behind your argument doesn't add up.

In other words, surfer's statement categorically supports the earlier observation that "the abstracts seem to be in retreat" rather than your conjecture that they didn't retreat. You can't just chose to believe surfer in issue #2, then choose to not believe him in the last issue.

You could maintain your point but at this juncture you would need to provide evidence that trumps Surfer's statement, the lack of any Celestials in the final issue, and the requirement of the paltry fleets to move in directly to support Galactus, something that the story wouldn't require if the Celestials were still around (literally throwing even the kitcken sink into the battle creates hightened tensions. For what are fleets of ships amongst a battle of cosmic beings?).

... At the right hunger level... Galan clears it... Against the skyfathers

No amount of Zeus thumping is gonna make me change my mind...
Unless we start mentioning dormammu... Shuma.. Etc

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
You're definitely arguing just for the sake of maintaining your position. The intent of DnA was quite clear by both their writing and sepulveda's art. Their intent was primarily to establish the Galactus Engine as a credible huge threat so they could set some dramatic tension. Having a character state that "even the abstracts seem to be in retreat" while arguing that couldn't be the case is really a straw man position since at no point in the rest of the story do you have any evidence supporting your conjecture. In fact the story STRONGLY supports the statement. In this case the burden of proof is on you that they didn't retreat, in other words, show evidence to the contrary.

You could nit-pick the fact that earlier in issue #2 Surfer tells Nova and Quasar that all is not as it seems for the battle, which is taking place on several planes of reality.

You could do that, but the point is moot since we've established that surfer is the authority in terms of perceiving what is going on in the battle. In that case, his blunt statement that if Galactus -and Galactus alone - could not stop the Galactus Engine, then all would be lost.

That categorically supports the earlier observation that "the abstracts seem to be in retreat" rather than your conjecture that they didn't retreat.

You could maintain your point but at this juncture you would need to provide evidence that trumps Surfer's statement, the lack of any Celestials in the final issue, and the requirement of the paltry fleets to move in directly to support Galactus, something that the story wouldn't require if the Celestials were still around (literally throwing even the kitcken sink into the battle creates hightened tensions. For what are fleets of ships amongst a battle of cosmic beings?).

Even assuming the other "abstracts" who aren't really abstracts retreated, leaving only Galactus, this means nothing. It could be a rare good showing for the fool.

In the end a REAL abstract, Death, did the actual winning.

Originally posted by rotiart
... At the right hunger level... Galan clears it... Against the skyfathers

No amount of Zeus thumping is gonna make me change my mind...
Unless we start mentioning dormammu... Shuma.. Etc

BS. Skyfather's like Odin have better showings than Gorath or Dormammu. Odin stalemated Dormammu and has been shown busting galaxies.

Galactus dies horribly.

Originally posted by zopzop
LOL you are so cool! 🙄

No really spazz, none of them were abstracts and "dying" to the cosmics is meaningless since two of the cosmics fighting "died" previously and yet here they were fighting.

The Surfer was wrong, because not only did Galactus NOT beat the Engine, an [b]actual Abstract, Death, did.

How's that for my Fox News skills? [/B]

I'd say you'd fit perfectly at Fox.

So when Aegis died, is she still fighting the Galactus Engine or is she not?

The Surfer clearly meant all the abstracts present at the fault. The fact that you didn't know this makes me question whether or not you read TI.

Or maybe you're just trolling.

Originally posted by vince_slice
I'd say you'd fit perfectly at Fox.

So when Aegis died, is she still fighting the Galactus Engine or is she not?

The Surfer clearly meant all the abstracts present at the fault. The fact that you didn't know this makes me question whether or not you read TI.

Or maybe you're just trolling.

Aegis and Teneberous "died" when the Surfer doused them with Crunch energies at the end of Annihilation, were they fighting in Thanos Imperative or not?

The fact that NONE of the beings present at the fault were actual abstracts makes me question whether you know what an abstract concept is.

The irony is delicious when you realize that when an actual abstract showed up, the fighting was over in an instant.

Look who's calling who a troll. You're the one that began with the insults yet you accuse me of trolling.