The Gorgon and Omega Red vs Thor in Melee Fight

Started by Ize19117 pages

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
K then. Maybe his point is that he still had to react at super speed to grab him by the scruff of his neck.

Using Mjolnir's powers to spin? ermm

I didn't fully read your reply. You're still on that point? Thor spins Mjolnir extremely fast due to his own physical strength. It's also the reason why he can spin his actual body at trans light speeds. Or why his swung it at impressive speeds.

Mjolnir granting him light speed? Are you referring purely to travel speed?

Ok, since it seems you missed this the first time, I'll post it again:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir09-TimeTravel.jpg

"Hast thou forgotten, my son? Thy HAMMER (emphasis mine) has the power to spin faster than light -- to enter the fourth dimension of -- time!"

There you have it. Odin clearly stating, that Mjolnir has the POWER to spin faster than light. So no, every scan of Thor spinning Mjolnir CAN'T be assumed to be his power, especially when he's sometimes shown with a stationary arm, and Mjolnir is spinning, especially when we know that Mjolnir has the ability to propel itself. And yes, that was a reference to travel speed, though he's shown some ability to use it in combat as well.

Originally posted by optic_blast!!!
how the hell does it proves speed? it just a strength feat shows us the impact of the blow and its not even thors strength feat but mjolnir again you fail

His trying to argue that it's a feat of speed? It just shows that Thor can counter speed. Thor racing to Quicksilver before he gets up does illustrate some movement speed.

Thor striking the ground with Mjolnir is allowed in this thread. Besides, if you don't think Thor can accomplish the same thing with his fists, you're out of it.

the fact that Quicksilver had just evaded a lightning bolt but could not react to that blow must mean something. Then again he wasn't surprised by the blow and just felt like sitting there and taking it

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His trying to argue that it's a feat of speed? It just shows that Thor can counter speed. Thor racing to Quicksilver before he gets up does illustrate some movement speed.

Thor striking the ground with Mjolnir is allowed in this thread. Besides, if you don't think Thor can accomplish the same thing with his fists, you're out of it.

part of that you have to admit can be attributed to PIS though

speedsters like flash and quicksilver are often written where others far slower can react to them yet if their true speed was applied, the opponents would have no chance in hell

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His trying to argue that it's a feat of speed? It just shows that Thor can counter speed. Thor racing to Quicksilver before he gets up does illustrate some movement speed.

Thor striking the ground with Mjolnir is allowed in this thread. Besides, if you don't think Thor can accomplish the same thing with his fists, you're out of it.

its not a counter speed it just proves that his impact WITH MJOLNIR can effect wide range thats it and this is all it proves

show me thor doing this without mjolnir

i already stated how even if thor is trying to use this he will get blitzed by gorgon who will read his mind know what he is about to do and blitz him first to the ground cutting his eyes his wrist what ever thats why i asked for you to prove he can top gorgon in reflex and combat speed which you failed to do

Originally posted by Warlord
the fact that Quicksilver had just evaded a lightning bolt but could not react to that blow must mean something. Then again he wasn't surprised by the blow and just felt like sitting there and taking it

thats because it was an impact that effected wide range its not like thor tagged him and hit him or something thor just caused ranged attack that effected to distance and effected quicksilver thats all

that feat is a weaker version of hulks thunderclup nothing more

Him slamming Mjolnir into the ground should be a valid tactic. Still, it should also be one that Gorgon and Omega Red are able to deal with, but there's no reason to outlaw it just because he uses the hammer, otherwise why give him the hammer in this fight? It's him using the powers of the hammer that the thread starter outlawed, not him using it as a hammer in conjunction with his super strength.

the ground shockwaves move slower than a thunderbolt (which he already dodged).
So either

1. QS wanted to be hit
2. Was cought of guard by Thor's reaction

true story

Originally posted by Warlord
the ground shockwaves move slower than a thunderbolt (which he already dodged).
So either

1. QS wanted to be hit
2. Was cought of guard by Thor's reaction

true story

so right now you are admiting yourself that the shockwave isnt suppose to be faster than quicksilver right? and you realize thor cant make shockwaves faster its up to the shockwave so therefor you just admited yourself that this feat is PIS good job 😛

yeah. QS was suicidal in this story.
i remember that correctly

Originally posted by Ize19
Ok, since it seems you missed this the first time, I'll post it again:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir09-TimeTravel.jpg

"Hast thou forgotten, my son? Thy HAMMER (emphasis mine) has the power to spin faster than light -- to enter the fourth dimension of -- time!"

There you have it. Odin clearly stating, that Mjolnir has the POWER to spin faster than light. So no, every scan of Thor spinning Mjolnir CAN'T be assumed to be his power, especially when he's sometimes shown with a stationary arm, and Mjolnir is spinning, especially when we know that Mjolnir has the ability to propel itself. And yes, that was a reference to travel speed, though he's shown some ability to use it in combat as well.

Good find. Unfortunately, Odin also tells Thor to spin himself and his hammer at extreme speeds. More than likely, the trans light statement is in direct correlation to Mjolnir's spacial and time based powers. Not an actual physical power.

Furthermore, we have seen Thor physically moving his arm to spin Mjolnir on dozens of occasions. Some times he literally spins it around himself:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/TravelThroughTime1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/TransportHim2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/BreaksIntoNegaZone1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsDurok3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKorvac5.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Mjolnir35.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsZemo.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Thorturnsbacktime.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/InvisibleIntangibleAbility.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesShieldEffectTime1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesVortexAsgard1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SpinsMjolnir2xlight.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/Mjolnir156.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/CreatesVortexSoldiers1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsGiants10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/TransportVortexCannon1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesWindShieldPlanetoid2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SavesHempishereVortex2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/hulkthor1fight5.jpg

When Thor spins Mjolnir, it's a result of his own physical capabilities. If the ability lay within the hammer itself, almost all of those scenes (Some are not as completely clear cut) shouldn't have happened. Heck, even the scene you posted shouldn't have happened as Odin told Thor to spin himself and his hammer as fast as he could.

Like I said, far more likely that the statement was in direct correlation to time travel. From what I can tell, Thor needed to spin Mjolnir at trans light speeds to achieve time travel.

Shockwaves caught QS by surprise. While he was staggered, Thor was upon him too fast for him to react. That was all.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Good find. Unfortunately, Odin also tells Thor to spin himself and his hammer at extreme speeds. More than likely, the trans light statement is in direct correlation to Mjolnir's spacial and time based powers. Not an actual physical power.

Furthermore, we have seen Thor physically moving his arm to spin Mjolnir on dozens of occasions. Some times he literally spins it around himself:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/TravelThroughTime1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/TransportHim2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/BreaksIntoNegaZone1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsDurok3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsKorvac5.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Mjolnir35.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/DefeatsZemo.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/Thorturnsbacktime.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/InvisibleIntangibleAbility.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesShieldEffectTime1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesVortexAsgard1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/DefeatsMongoose1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SpinsMjolnir2xlight.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/Mjolnir156.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/CreatesVortexSoldiers1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/DefeatsGiants10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/TransportVortexCannon1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/CreatesWindShieldPlanetoid2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/SavesHempishereVortex2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/hulkthor1fight5.jpg

When Thor spins Mjolnir, it's a result of his own physical capabilities. If the ability lay within the hammer itself, almost all of those scenes (Some are not as completely clear cut) shouldn't have happened. Heck, even the scene you posted shouldn't have happened as Odin told Thor to spin himself and his hammer as fast as he could.

Like I said, far more likely that the statement was in direct correlation to time travel. From what I can tell, Thor needed to spin Mjolnir at trans light speeds to achieve time travel.

The problem with your interpretation lies within the complete context of what was said: Odin tells Thor to spin his hammer as swiftly as he can, Thor repeats this, saying "Attach and spin... as swiftly as I can..." with the elipses showing some doubt on his part. In response to this doubt, Odin states "Hast thou forgotten, my son? Thy HAMMER (emphasis mine) has the power to spin faster than light -- to enter the fourth dimension of -- time!"

So to recap, Odin gives Thor an artifact, and tells him to swing Mjolnir as fast as he can. Thor does so, but expresses doubt at it working. Odin reassures him, as his hammer has the power to spin faster than light. Where in that is the faster than light power Thor's?

And sorry, but in almost all of those scans, the feats Thor produces are attributed to his hammer, and in most of the rest of those instances, he is using a power that has previously been attributed to it. Only one or two actually claim that it is Thor producing them, and those can easily be seen as simply giving Thor credit for what his weapon is doing.

Originally posted by Ize19
The problem with your interpretation lies within the complete context of what was said: Odin tells Thor to spin his hammer as swiftly as he can, Thor repeats this, saying "Attach and spin... as swiftly as I can..." with the elipses showing some doubt on his part. In response to this doubt, Odin states "Hast thou forgotten, my son? Thy HAMMER (emphasis mine) has the power to spin faster than light -- to enter the fourth dimension of -- time!"

So to recap, Odin gives Thor an artifact, and tells him to swing Mjolnir as fast as he can. Thor does so, but expresses doubt at it working. Odin reassures him, as his hammer has the power to spin faster than light. Where in that is the faster than light power Thor's?

This is where interpretation causes problems. I didn't even think of it in that context until you mentioned it.

Thor's history and that very scene point to it being Thor's own physical capabilities. If you believe Mjolnir has it's own separate ability to spin at the speed of light, then it would have to be independent of Thor's own physical strength/speed which can match Mjolnir. It's simply overly complicating what I thought was a clear cut relationship which doesn't actually change anything in the end.

Again, it makes much more sense that the reference was just a correlation to time travel which requires Mjolnir to be spun at light speed.

Question: Aren't you one of the guys who argued the "listed abilities" stance?

Originally posted by Ize19
And sorry, but in almost all of those scans, the feats Thor produces are attributed to his hammer, and in most of the rest of those instances, he is using a power that has previously been attributed to it. Only one or two actually claim that it is Thor producing them, and those can easily be seen as simply giving Thor credit for what his weapon is doing.

So what? That doesn't affect my stance. Thor almost always attributes his feats to Mjolnir. It's the reason why beings have assumed his power lies in his hammer or his a weakling without it (It's happened like 4 times, and Thor set them straight each time). I'm pretty sure Thor once lifted something with Mjolnir under it and he attributed it to his hammer. Part of his character

Those scans have Thor directly spinning his arms or moving them which result in Mjolnir moving at incredible speeds.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/TravelThroughTime1.jpg

^That's Thor creating a time traveling vortex by actively spinning his own attached arm. You would have to argue that Mjolnir directly amps Thor's speed to explain that. Which is an entirely different ball game. And a ridiculous one at that.

Otherwise, the scene you posted is something that has long been forgotten by writers (Assuming you are right). And by forgotten, I mean like before Journey Into the Mystery even ended. It went the way of Thor's telepathy. There's no other way I can explain your stance that I can think of.

thor controls Mjolnir in large part by thought

the physical manifestations are superficial rather than determinative

what I mean is, when thor wants to fly faster or slower, he thinks that and Mjolnir reacts. its not that he has to swing harder to accelerate.

Originally posted by Starscream M
thor controls Mjolnir in large part by thought

the physical manifestations are superficial rather than determinative

what I mean is, when thor wants to fly faster or slower, he thinks that and Mjolnir reacts. its not that he has to swing harder to accelerate.

That's not relevant. His arguing that when Thor spins Mjolnir at incredible speeds, it's a result of an independent power of Mjolnir to spin at incredible speeds. Which makes no sense. We have dozens of instances where Mjolnir is spun at incredible speeds as a result of Thor swinging or spinning his arms physically.

We also have instances where Mjolnir spins despite Thor's hands being stationary, we also have the word of Odin that Mjolnir has the power to spin faster than light, we also have the precedent of Thor's entire body being pulled by Mjolnir at high speeds, never mind just his arm. I'm sorry but when you want to prove that it is Thor that is moving at light speed, not Mjolnir, then posting feats that he directly attributes to Mjolnir, or has attributed to Mjolnir in the past is not the way to go.

Originally posted by Ize19
we also have the word of Odin that Mjolnir has the power to spin faster than light,

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed25.jpg

Originally posted by Ize19
We also have instances where Mjolnir spins despite Thor's hands being stationary,

And that's Thor spinning Mjolnir by it's thong. I don't understand how that conflicts with my stance at all. I would have posted those scans too, but I wanted the clearest examples I could find on short notice that had Thor actually swinging the hammer. Sometimes even around him.

Originally posted by Ize19
we also have the word of Odin that Mjolnir has the power to spin faster than light, we also have the precedent of Thor's entire body being pulled by Mjolnir at high speeds, never mind just his arm.

😬 Mjolnir has the ability to grant flight. How does that change anything? Originally it was Thor tossing the hammer really hard, and him simply hanging on then changing direction with his thoughts. I don't think it's as primitive as that anymore however.

Like I said, either Mjolnir directly amps Thor's speed (Which is in imo nonsense) or if you insist on your interpretation of that scan, it was something that was very quickly forgotten.

In that very scan, Thor spun his body in conjunction with the hammer. So Mjolnir has a separate power capable that allows it to spin at incredible speeds that is not necessary as Thor can match said speeds himself as shown in that very seen? ermm

Granting Mjolnir this independent power would not only be redundant in the end, it would also overly complicate things.

Originally posted by Ize19
I'm sorry but when you want to prove that it is Thor that is moving at light speed, not Mjolnir, then posting feats that he directly attributes to Mjolnir, or has attributed to Mjolnir in the past is not the way to go.

Can you please clarify the first part? Thor moving at light speed? I think it's clear he can spin his body at speeds that match Mjolnir's spinning, and that it is his strength of arm that does the work.

facepalm

Originally posted by Deadline
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Stats/ThorSuperspeed25.jpg

Seen and rebutted. Here you go:

Originally posted by Ize19
Not a bad feat, but, seeing how the guy who WAS hit by Mjolnir wasn't killed, or knocked unconscious, just hurt, it doesn't look like that was a full speed Mjolnir. Here in this scan, Wolverine both dodges and helps Storm dodge one of Cyclop's optic blasts, which he sensed just a split second before it hit them:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8568/uxmch21117.jpg

Again, it's a good reflex feat, but it certainly doesn't prove that he's as fast without Mjolnir as he is with it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And that's Thor spinning Mjolnir by it's thong. I don't understand how that conflicts with my stance at all. I would have posted those scans too, but I wanted the clearest examples I could find on short notice that had Thor actually swinging the hammer. Sometimes even around him.

😬 Mjolnir has the ability to grant flight. How does that change anything? Originally it was Thor tossing the hammer really hard, and him simply hanging on then changing direction with his thoughts. I don't think it's as primitive as that anymore however.

It doesn't matter. The fact that it was that way, shows that Mjolnir can pull Thor's entire body at faster than light speeds, I see no reason to believe that it can't pull his arm fast enough to create one of its time vortex's.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, either Mjolnir directly amps Thor's speed (Which is in imo nonsense) or if you insist on your interpretation of that scan, it was something that was very quickly forgotten.

In that very scan, Thor spun his body in conjunction with the hammer. So Mjolnir has a separate power capable that allows it to spin at incredible speeds that is not necessary as Thor can match said speeds himself as shown in that very seen? ermm

Granting Mjolnir this independent power would not only be redundant in the end, it would also overly complicate things.

Prove that it was forgotten? Yeah, there's those options, or Thor begins spinning his hammer, the enchantment on his hammer takes over, and it achieves greater than light speed, dragging his arm/sometimes body with it. Not really, it simply allows Thor to achieve feats that he is unable to match without his hammer.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Can you please clarify the first part? Thor moving at light speed? I think it's clear he can spin his body at speeds that match Mjolnir's spinning, and that it is his strength of arm that does the work.

facepalm

You're the one making the claim that Thor moves his arm/spins his body at greater than light speed, so I don't see what needs clarification. And I'm sorry, but I don't think it's clear, what was shown was Thor spinning as fast as he could, it not being enough, and Mjolnir taking over to reach the speed necessary. If it was truly the strength of his arms, then why are there so many scenes where his arms are straight in front of him, stationary? Why does he always credit his feats to his hammer? I'm sorry, but you haven't proven your point yet.