The Gorgon and Omega Red vs Thor in Melee Fight

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
lolwtf?

Thor couldn't hit Wolverine with his self-proclaimed "fiercest and finest blows." Then he hits Wolverine. So either Thor can hit Wolverine with "less-than-fiercest and finest blows" or Thor was just aggrandizing Wolverine.

Obviously, you can't find yourself accepting either possibility, instead, pretending like Thor didn't end up tagging Wolverine and pretending like Thor wasn't holding back. Fine job, thar.

I'm asking you a serious question.. Can you answer it honestly... Onedumbgo... do you have legitimate fighting EXPERIENCE?

Answer the question.

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm asking you a serious question.. Can you answer it honestly... Onedumbgo... do you have legitimate fighting EXPERIENCE?

Answer the question.

Why would that matter?

Originally posted by jinzin
I'm asking you a serious question.. Can you answer it honestly... Onedumbgo... do you have legitimate fighting EXPERIENCE?

Answer the question.

Nice job trying to deflect and convert this into personal questions rather than just sticking to the comics.

I get that you believe Thor was using his "fiercest blows," y'know... like blows that have rocked planets and Celestials. We all get it. Thor says something... it must be true, amirite?

Originally posted by jinzin
You don't need to lowball Thor to know that he doesn't fight faster than Gorgon, that he can't do damage to Carbonadium coils, or that an Adamantium sword can cut him.

You don't need to overestimate Gorgon to know that his skill is more impressive than Thor's by Marvel Comic standards, that his mind reading is going to be hard to Thor to overcome in the first place, and that a combined effort from him and OR against Thor in a confrontation strictly limited to melee tactics is not necessarily in Thor's favor.

Any insistance that this is a non-fight just because it's Thor that's fighting is as weak an argument as insisting that using Wolverine as a frame of reference for this fight doesn't count. 😐

He's dented primary adamantium with Mjolnir and snapped out of secondary adamantium coils. So much for carbonadium being too much to handle.

Using Wolverine as a frame of reference is called "ABC logic" and occasionally "pretending a character's lowest feats are his standard ones".

Overestimate Gorgon? That's funny, seems like no one in here is willing to provide any proof of anything about him to overestimate. Or are his feats so unimpressive that we don't even want to see them?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why would that matter?

Bottem line, if you're a in a fight with a fighter of superior skill and speed, and that fighter happens to be evading a number of your punches, kicks, or even takedowns... that doesn't automatically mean that your opponent is untouchable (or that you can't hit them). Ok?

The reason I'm asking ODG if he's had fighting experience is because if he did, he wouldn't make an argument that weak.

Every fighter including myself as had a fight where we are trying to land a flush punch on an opponent and they slip that punch.

Just because your opponent is able to avoid getting hit a few times doesn't mean you won't have a chance of touching them, it ALSO doesn't mean that You/I/etc were holding back.

Infact, it's pretty common for haymakers to miss their mark in a standard h2h fight, that doesn't dictate someone was holding back their punch, just means they missed.

What we know is
-That Thor was missing Wolverine in h2h combat.
-That Thor asserted that it was due to Wolverine's speed (and perhaps agility)
-And that Thor insisted they were his "fiercest" and "finest" blows.

Does that automatically dictate that he can't hit Wolverine at all? No
Does that automatically dictate that he was holding back just because he ends up tagging Wolverine later? No.

Within the confines of those panels, there is not a single reason to assume that Thor's statement's about Wolverine's speed or his own punches have no credability to them....unless you want to do some serious reaching.

And frankly, trying to assert that Thor grabbing Wolverine's foot while Wolverine was (or at least looked to be...?) airborne, and swatting Wolverine off him while once again airborne automatically DOES discredit those statements says a lot about one's critical thinking IMO and not in a good way... at the very least it tells me that one lacks a significant amount of fighting experience to be making those kinds of arguments in the first place.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
😂

Nice job trying to deflect and convert this into personal questions rather than just sticking to the comics.

I get that you believe Thor was using his "fiercest blows," y'know... like blows that have rocked planets and Celestials. We all get it. Thor says something... it must be true, amirite?

Answer the question do you have a significant amount of fighting experience.. I want to know... Answer it. It's not a complicated question.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
He's dented primary adamantium with Mjolnir and snapped out of secondary adamantium coils. So much for carbonadium being too much to handle.

Using Wolverine as a frame of reference is called "ABC logic" and occasionally "pretending a character's lowest feats are his standard ones".

Overestimate Gorgon? That's funny, seems like no one in here is willing to provide any proof of anything about him to overestimate. Or are his feats so unimpressive that we don't even want to see them?

As for secondary adamatium... well that stuff hasn't been ANYWHERE near as impressive as it's counterparts so I'm not exactly sold there.

His feats include walking through Elektra, Wolverine, Yoyo, and beating Phobos...

Srank already explained why using Wolverine as a frame of reference in this thread is nearly a necessity. Both characters have a severly limited appearance list the majority of which ties into Wolverine, who himself has had a fight with Thor, the majority of which took place within the rules set by the OP of this thread.

You can ignore him if you like, it just doesn't look good.

Originally posted by jinzin
Answer the question do you have a significant amount of fighting experience.. I want to know... Answer it. It's not a complicated question.

I want to know whether or not Thor causing reverberations that shattered mountains and blowing a hole through a Celestial's armor is more fierce than a blow he used on Wolverine.

Simple question, after all and it doesn't deflect from the actual comic. 😂

Originally posted by jinzin
Because the argument he's trying to costruct makes it appear as if he's talking out of his ass.

Bottem line, if you're a in a fight with a fighter of superior skill and speed, and that fighter happens to be evading a number of your punches, kicks, or even takedowns... that doesn't automatically mean that your opponent is untouchable (or that you can't hit them). Ok?

The reason I'm asking ODG if he's had fighting experience is because if he did, he wouldn't make an argument that weak.

Every fighter including myself as had a fight where we are trying to land a flush punch on an opponent and they slip that punch.

Just because your opponent is able to avoid getting hit a few times doesn't mean you won't have a chance of touching them, it ALSO doesn't mean that You/I/etc were holding back.

Infact, it's pretty common for haymakers to miss their mark in a standard h2h fight, that doesn't dictate someone was holding back their punch, just means they missed.

What we know is
-That Thor was missing Wolverine in h2h combat.
-That Thor asserted that it was due to Wolverine's speed (and perhaps agility)
-And that Thor insisted they were his "fiercest" and "finest" blows.

Does that automatically dictate that he can't hit Wolverine at all? No
Does that automatically dictate that he was holding back just because he ends up tagging Wolverine later? No.

Within the confines of those panels, there is not a single reason to assume that Thor's statement's about Wolverine's speed or his own punches have no credability to them....unless you want to do some serious reaching.

And frankly, trying to assert that Thor grabbing Wolverine's foot while Wolverine was (or at least looked to be...?) airborne, and swatting Wolverine off him while once again airborne automatically DOES discredit those statements says a lot about one's critical thinking IMO and not in a good way... at the very least it tells me that one lacks a significant amount of fighting experience to be making those kinds of arguments in the first place.

What we know is that by looking at Thor's fights with the likes of the Hulk, Ultron, Juggernaut, Perrikus, Mangog, BRB etc etc etc....Thor's statement was clearly hyperbole.

Same way Supes keeps saying "single.toughest.opponent.evar!" every time he is done knocking someone out.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
😂

I want to know whether or not Thor causing reverberations that shattered mountains and blowing a hole through a Celestial's armor is more fierce than a blow he used on Wolverine.

Simple question, after all and it doesn't deflect from the actual comic. 😂

So you're not going to answer a single simple question that I ask you.

Honestly ODG if you're going to be THIS obtuse will you please refrain from attempting to actively instigate me into conversation?

Your double standards are terribly transparent... You want us to stick to that comic, unless it benefits in some way...

Quite frankly this argument with you is very circular.

Originally posted by jinzin
Denting a solid adamantium object with no elasticity really doesn't equate well with Carbonadium that has it... 😐

As for secondary adamatium... well that stuff hasn't been ANYWHERE near as impressive as it's counterparts so I'm not exactly sold there.

His feats include walking through Elektra, Wolverine, Yoyo, and beating Phobos...

Srank already explained why using Wolverine as a frame of reference in this thread is nearly a necessity. Both characters have a severly limited appearance list the majority of which ties into Wolverine, who himself has had a fight with Thor, the majority of which took place within the rules set by the OP of this thread.

You can ignore him if you like, it just doesn't look good.

And Doctor Octopus has had adamantium arms, so where's your point? Carbonadium is more malleable, which is not the same as elasticity.

And Thor snapped those coils pretty easily so carbonadium would have to be much stronger to hold him, a proposition that has yet to be proven.

And none of those, not even defeating Phobos, is comparable to beating Thor. Those are so laughably low-level even compared to Thor's own physical feats. I'm guessing the manner of those victories has impressed you to the extent that you will support OR and Gorgon, whatever.

There's a difference between using Wolverine as a frame of reference and the frame of reference. One is a legitimate method of comparison and the other is an attempt to cherry-pick feats which also ignores context and every other feat he's ever performed. Clearly srank chose the latter because any other argument wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by Silent Master
What we know is that by looking at Thor's fights with the likes of the Hulk, Ultron, Juggernaut, Perrikus, Mangog, BRB etc etc etc....Thor's statement was clearly hyperbole.

How is it clearly Hyperbole?
You just listed off a punch of characters who are not at all akin to Wolverine in combat.

Nothing about fighting Hulk, or fighting Juggernaught makes that a hyperbolic statement.

You realize Wolverine's fought half of those characters as well right? 😕

How does fighting Hulk or Juggernaught make that a hyperbolic statement?🤨

Originally posted by jinzin
So you're not going to answer a single simple question that I ask you.

Honestly ODG if you're going to be THIS obtuse will you please refrain from attempting to actively instigate me into conversation?

Your double standards are terribly transparent... You want us to stick to that comic, unless it benefits in some way...

Quite frankly this argument with you is very circular.

You're asking questions about me... when we're talking about Thor and Wolverine.

And somehow... our joint incredulity that Thor was using his fiercest blows (blows which have rocked planets and Abstract entities) against Wolverine (lolwtf) is lost on you. Utterly.

Faaaaan-tastic.

Originally posted by Johnny Sorrow
And Doctor Octopus has had adamantium arms, so where's your point? Carbonadium is more malleable, which is not the same as elasticity.

And Thor snapped those coils pretty easily so carbonadium would have to be much stronger to hold him, a proposition that has yet to be proven.

And none of those, not even defeating Phobos, is comparable to beating Thor. Those are so laughably low-level even compared to Thor's own physical feats. I'm guessing the manner of those victories has impressed you to the extent that you will support OR and Gorgon, whatever.

There's a difference between using Wolverine as a frame of reference and the frame of reference. One is a legitimate method of comparison and the other is an attempt to cherry-pick feats which also ignores context. Clearly srank chose the latter because any other argument wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

And When Ock had Adamantium arms they worked Hulk over... I'm not sure what bringing him up here does though. 😕

You should look up synonyms for maleable... elastic is one of them. 😬

Carbonadium has been cited as being indestructible.... and Iirc AS indesctructible as Adamantium.. it's also worth noting that Wolverine's claws are the likely strongest type of Adamantium in existence and could take a toll on swordsman's Adamantium coated sword, yet they do not damage OR's tenticals..

It's POSSIBLE is suppose that Thor might be able to damage them somehow but a possibility I find unlikely in a full speed combat situation, especially where he has to deal with two opponents.

The "level" of opponets that Gorgon has fought are people who are as typically faster and more skilled than Thor in combat. The only advantages that Thor has over any of the people Gorgon has defeated is his strength, and his durability. His durability, which likely won't matter in this thread.

I don't know if anyone is using the fight as the only frame of reference here, but it is evidence, it is canon, and it is consistent with like evidence so it's hard to ignore.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm instigating you? 😂

You're asking questions about me... when we're talking about Thor and Wolverine.

And somehow... our joint incredulity that Thor was using his fiercest blows (blows which have rocked planets and Abstract entities) against Wolverine (lolwtf) is lost on you. Utterly.

Faaaaan-tastic.

Yes you responded to me first though I can see you have trouble keeping up with things. But...er yeah, that's what happened.

I'm asking questions you are refusing to answer.

He missed Wolverine with those blows....

In any case, this is running similar to the "hulk holds back" on Wolverine argument....

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes you responded to me first though I can see you have trouble keeping up with things. But...er yeah, that's what happened.

I'm asking questions you are refusing to answer.

He missed Wolverine with those blows....

In any case, this is running similar to the "hulk holds back" on Wolverine argument....

You decided to answer my inquiry about comic characters with another inquiry about me. Somehow... you don't get that Thor actually has fiercer blows in his arsenal/history than the ones he used on Wolverine (planet-busters, etc.).

Somehow, the only frame of reference you want to use are wholly limited to the fight he had with Wolverine. Even more than that, I'm amused you're using character's statements in a single fight (which is actually disproven by the fight itself, lol) OVER a character's entire history of feats and fights.

Faaaaan-tastic x2.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
you're using character's statements in a single fight (which is actually disproven by the fight itself,

THIS...

That kind of blatant absolutism and stupidity is EXACTLY why I was asking about your fighting experience...

You don't have any, it's okay to admit that you're talkng out of your ass when it's completely clear that you are.

Hulk has planetary busting power, I supposed he holds back on Wolverine too.

Only thing amusing here is you ignoring the "on panel" evidence you love so much only until it's convenient for you to ignore... If you're going to do that, then please ignore me too, I can't be bothered to waste my time being wrapped up in your transparencies anymore.

Originally posted by jinzin
How is it clearly Hyperbole?

Already explained.

Originally posted by jinzin
And When Ock had Adamantium arms they worked Hulk over... I'm not sure what bringing him up here does though. 😕

You should look up synonyms for maleable... elastic is one of them. 😬

Carbonadium has been cited as being indestructible.... and Iirc AS indesctructible as Adamantium.. it's also worth noting that Wolverine's claws are the likely strongest type of Adamantium in existence and could take a toll on swordsman's Adamantium coated sword, yet they do not damage OR's tenticals..

It's POSSIBLE is suppose that Thor might be able to damage them somehow but a possibility I find unlikely in a full speed combat situation, especially where he has to deal with two opponents.

The "level" of opponets that Gorgon has fought are people who are as typically faster and more skilled than Thor in combat. The only advantages that Thor has over any of the people Gorgon has defeated is his strength, and his durability. His durability, which likely won't matter in this thread.

I don't know if anyone is using the fight as the only frame of reference here, but it is evidence, it is canon, and it is consistent with like evidence so it's hard to ignore.

Carbonadium is not more elastic than adamantium, it's more malleable. Which means that force from Mjolnir's blows will not absorbed any easier.

Physics fail. Elasticity and malleability are two separate (yet related) concepts, and something can be elastic and not malleable.

Which is hilariously inconsistent if you think about it. Adamantium cuts through adamantium but not through something weaker than it? Adamantium beta is identical to primary adamantium except it's physically bonded to Logan's biology.

LOL possible? Thor can one-shot these guys without using his full strength.

Like who? Slingshot has superspeed with an undefined upper limit. Thor has handled speedsters in the past and faster ones too. Wolverine is one of the skilled combatants in the Marvel universe; taking his skill feats into account, Thor is not that far behind him in fighting prowess.

That was exactly what srank was doing and it's completely inconsistent with Thor's portrayal over the last 30 years. You don't really know anything about Thor do you? :/

BTW just because a character says something doesn't make it true. There are numerous instances where characters say false crap because the writers don't know what they're talking about. If you really took Marvel characters at their word you'd have a billion continuity errors on your hands.