The Gorgon and Omega Red vs Thor in Melee Fight

Originally posted by Ize19
Hey, thanks for responding. No, I was giving context by stating that it didn't go far. The farther away it travels from Thor, the faster it has been shown to move in order to return to him.

Well, it was Claremont who was writing him, and here's what he thought of the speed of Cyke's blasts:

Despite how fast Arcade's killer cars are moving, Scott destroys them all with a single ricochet blast that treats them as if they were standing still:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5779865

And another one:

Here it's flat out stated, by Claremont, that Cyclop's blasts travel at the speed of light:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1932/uxmannual0311.jpg

So, since it was Claremont's Cyclops whose optic blast Wolverine both dodged, and saved Storm from, and Claremont's Cyclops shoots out light speed blasts, the blast Wolverine dodged/helped Storm dodge was lightspeed. So, was Thor's hammer going faster than a bullet? Probably. Was it going light speed? Prove it.

Well you have to get that info from DumbGo, I got nothing. I think he said there were examples of the optic blast not moving at lightspeed. I think I already conceded it might not be moving at lightspeed (the hammer).

Originally posted by Ize19

Well, sure, in that scan. And, in case you haven't noticed, we've already said, that either the description of events was simply noting how lucky Thor was that his blow landed in time, at which point the hammer became his to control, and it is a non feat, or else, (the more likely interpretation, imo) that truly was an astounding feat of speed on Thor's part,

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Now you have an example where the hammer was probably moving at FTL and now you've started making excuses.

1. Theres nothing there in the narration or by anyone that indicates he was lucky. You are now making stuff up.
2. You're contradicting yourself. You're trying to say its a non-feat because it slowed down at the last second and then saying it's amazing.

Originally posted by Ize19

and it has never, or so rarely as to be almost never, been replicated.

We have his fights against Hermes and he didn't use his hammer for the whole fight. He also seems to have a better track record against speedsters. Look how Wolverine did against Speed Demon see how Thor did against Juvan.

Originally posted by Ize19

Less than a second? Sure. Less than a split second? Prove it. The fact is, Wolverine felt the pressure-wave, a split second before Cyclops' blast hit Storm, and he helped her dodge it. Thor saw his hammer, a we-don't-actually-know-but-probably-less-than-a-second before it hit him, and he dodged it. From where I'm standing, Wolverine's got the more impressive feat, it's up to you to prove otherwise.

Thing is even if it was moving at lightspeed Wolverine had a split second, for somebody like him thats all the time in the world. I don't need to prove anything you already agreed that it was probably moving faster than a bullet. If its inches from your face how much time do you have? So actually the feat is still superior.

Deadline, it's bad enough that you go out of your way to troll and bash mods. But I will not tolerate you spamming yup threads on end. Consider this a warning.

Originally posted by Badabing
Deadline, it's bad enough that you go out of your way to troll and bash mods. But I will not tolerate you spamming yup threads on end. Consider this a warning.

Awww man. durpalm

Originally posted by Deadline
Awww man. durpalm

Originally posted by Deadline
Well you have to get that info from DumbGo, I got nothing. I think he said there were examples of the optic blast not moving at lightspeed. I think I already conceded it might not be moving at lightspeed (the hammer).

Sure, under different writers. Under Claremont? Clearly a lightspeed attack.

Originally posted by Deadline
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Now you have an example where the hammer was probably moving at FTL and now you've started making excuses.

1. Theres nothing there in the narration or by anyone that indicates he was lucky. You are now making stuff up.
2. You're contradicting yourself. You're trying to say its a non-feat because it slowed down at the last second and then saying it's amazing.

Lol, I'm not contradicting myself, I'm saying it's one or the other. For the first one, the narrators comment was "Then, in the space of a few micro-seconds before the zooming hammer can strike, the mighty Thor unleashes a senses-staggering throw." As Jinzin pointed out, this COULD refer to the blow LANDING in that incredibly small span of time, which would be lucky, at which point the hammer would return to his control. As I stated the last time, I don't believe this is actually what happened, just stating it's a possibility.

As for the second one, the part about the hammer slowing down was part of the first point. I don't think that actually happened, so yes, it's an amazing feat.

Originally posted by Deadline
We have his fights against Hermes and he didn't use his hammer for the whole fight. He also seems to have a better track record against speedsters. Look how Wolverine did against Speed Demon see how Thor did against Juvan.

When he didn't use the hammer, he got knocked to the ground. Not exactly impressive. Lol, what? So, Wolverine doing backsprings and handstands against Speed Demon who was running in a straight line, then finishing it up with an elbow to the face, is less impressive than Thor catching Juvan while he was falling to the ground, then flipping him?

Originally posted by Deadline
Thing is even if it was moving at lightspeed Wolverine had a split second, for somebody like him thats all the time in the world. I don't need to prove anything you already agreed that it was probably moving faster than a bullet. If its inches from your face how much time do you have? So actually the feat is still superior.

Sure you do. We know Wolverine had a split-second. We know Thor had probably less than a second. We know the blast that Wolverine dodged was light speed. We don't know that the hammer Thor dodged was, and you already conceded it might not be. The feat is not superior.

Originally posted by Ize19
Sure, under different writers. Under Claremont? Clearly a lightspeed attack.

Possibly.

Originally posted by Ize19

Lol, I'm not contradicting myself, I'm saying it's one or the other. For the first one, the narrators comment was "Then, in the space of a few micro-seconds before the zooming hammer can strike, the mighty Thor unleashes a senses-staggering throw." As Jinzin pointed out, this COULD refer to the blow LANDING in that incredibly small span of time, which would be lucky, at which point the hammer would return to his control. As I stated the last time, I don't believe this is actually what happened, just stating it's a possibility.

As for the second one, the part about the hammer slowing down was part of the first point. I don't think that actually happened, so yes, it's an amazing feat.

Look man, it was most likely moving at FTL speed. Theres no point in arguing maybe because we could use that for an feat we want to lowball.

Originally posted by Ize19

When he didn't use the hammer, he got knocked to the ground. Not exactly impressive. Lol, what? So, Wolverine doing backsprings and handstands against Speed Demon who was running in a straight line, then finishing it up with an elbow to the face, is less impressive than Thor catching Juvan while he was falling to the ground, then flipping him?

I could be wrong but I remember Wolverine stating that he was getting hit.

Thor was sneak attacked and immediately was able to counter it.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ReactsZuras1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ReactsZuras2.jpg

I also think that Juvan may have superior feats than Speed Demon.

Originally posted by Ize19

Sure you do.

Ok I'll repeat myself again. If something is moving faster than a bullet and its inches from your face how much time do you have? A lot less than a split second.

Originally posted by Ize19

We know Wolverine had a split-second. We know Thor had probably less than a second. We know the blast that Wolverine dodged was light speed. We don't know that the hammer Thor dodged was, and you already conceded it might not be. The feat is not superior.
We don't know that the hammer Thor dodged was, and you already conceded it might not be. The feat is not superior.

Thats because you dodged the question. We already agreed that the hammer was probably moving faster than a bullet. You dodged the point that he had less than a split second to dodge.

Originally posted by Deadline
Possibly.

Fine, show Claremont depicting his blasts traveling slower than light, and I'll downgrade it from "clearly" to "possibly."

Originally posted by Deadline
Look man, it was most likely moving at FTL speed. Theres no point in arguing maybe because we could use that for an feat we want to lowball.

Agreed. It's still just one feat.

Originally posted by Deadline
I could be wrong but I remember Wolverine stating that he was getting hit.

Thor was sneak attacked and immediately was able to counter it.

http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ReactsZuras1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ReactsZuras2.jpg

I also think that Juvan may have superior feats than Speed Demon.

It doesn't matter what speed feats he has, all he did was jump down at Thor. Tell me, who travels faster by jumping down, Quicksilver or Colossus? Neither, when you're jumping down, you're traveling at the speed of gravity.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok I'll repeat myself again. If something is moving faster than a bullet and its inches from your face how much time do you have? A lot less than a split second.

Thats because you dodged the question. We already agreed that the hammer was probably moving faster than a bullet. You dodged the point that he had less than a split second to dodge.

Split second is ambiguous, all it means is less than a second. How much time did Thor have? Clearly less than a second, but as to how much, we don't know. Since it's ambiguous how much warning either one had, the fact that Cyke's blast was traveling faster than the hammer means that Wolverine's feat is at the least AS good, probably better.

Originally posted by Ize19
If someone creates one, I guess I'm willing to give it a go. Still, it took me two days to prepare my initial post on this thread, and I have limited time available on here, so there'll need to be some leeway on time constraints. With that one condition, Battlezone accepted.

Oh, and Silent Master, you wanted to know where it was stated in a comic that bleedout takes more out of Wolverine's healing factor than blunt damage? Nowhere, as far as I know. Where has it been stated that loss of blood and fluids is hard for his healing factor to replace? Here you go:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1477/wolverinev1ch06708.jpg

Here you are:

Originally posted by jinzin
Here you are:

Thanks Jinzin, I completely forgot about that!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The fail continues... How on God's Green earth can the Wolverine side keep using a situation that really disproves their entire conclusion (Wolverine is faster and can't be hit by thor). If someone is trying to talk some sense into somebody the entire fight and not trying to hurt them.. while the other is bloodlusted..we call one side holding back and the other going for the kill. One clearly has an advantage over the other. you would think they could see this actually supports Thor looking superior but somehow it doesn't... WTF.

Then a holding back character momentarily doubts that he could hit somebody because a couple blows were dodged.. yet... moments later (mid sentence mind you) proves that thought wrong.. Is now proof that Wolverine is faster than Thor and can't be tagged by him.. Yet he actually did tag him... WTF is going on here. Honestly, this thread truly gives me a headache trying to figure out the twisted illogical reasoning going on here.

🤨

And what fight did you "read"?

There was no point in that confrontation where Thor was trying to talk sense into Wolverine. The extent of him trying to talk to Wolverine was a "Wolverine listen-" as things got off to a start.

You can't arbitrarily DECIDE that Thor was holding back when it came to the hand to hand combat especially when he flat out states that he wasn't... TWICE even. 😐

No one said Wolverine can't be tagged by Thor so once again, the only "fail" I see here lies in your reading capacity.

Thor didn't somehow prove that Wolverine wasn't faster than him just because he was able to touch Wolverine while Wolverine's speed was neutralized by being in mid-air.
In fact, the whole premise for Thor using his ground pound came from the idea that Wolverine's speed "required" Thor to "change tactics"...
Thor... who Grey Gargoyle recently stated always goes into fights head on, which he does, he has TONS of fights where he could just use Mjolnir to pulverize, energy zap, reverse time, ect his opponents and he opts instead for some physical h2h confrontation. The fact is that not only did Thor make mention of Wolverine's superior speed: twice, and suggest he WASN'T holding back: twice, but he felt that speed was a REQUIREMENT for him to change away from his TYPICAL battle tactics to the point that he stopped trying to hit Logan.

How anyone can look at that fight and somehow assess that Wolverine ISN'T faster between the two, OR that Thor was somehow trying to talk Logan down throughout the h2h exchange is completely beyond me.

Perhaps this thread and the arguments within it wouldn't give you a headache if you read what actually happened in the panels of the comics being discussed instead of arbitrarily making them up on your own.

Originally posted by Ize19
Thanks Jinzin, I completely forgot about that!

That doesn't actually say that bleeding wounds take more energy to heal.

Originally posted by Ize19
Thanks Jinzin, I completely forgot about that!

huh? is he saying his body can't make more blood? 😕

Originally posted by Silent Master
That doesn't actually say that bleeding wounds take more energy to heal.

Read it again: "my body will keep trying to repair itself, but when my hearts got nothing left to pump... it'll stop trying." What does that mean? Well, what it means is that since his healing factor will still be able to heal wounds, but unable to create blood cells, that creating blood cells requires more energy than healing wounds.

Originally posted by leonidas
huh? is he saying his body can't make more blood? 😕

No, but Wolverine's healing factor does not run on infinity. It requires energy to run, and it takes more energy to create blood, than it does to recycle it. Therefore, when he is bled out, if his healing factor no longer has enough energy to produce new blood cells, then his heart will "stop cold."

It means that without blood his heart won't work, that doesn't mean bleeding wounds take more energy to heal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It means that without blood his heart won't work, that doesn't mean bleeding wounds take more energy to heal.

Yes, without blood, his heart won't work. BUT, his body will STILL be "trying to repair itself." What does that mean? That his body can lack the energy needed to replace blood and tissue, but still have enough energy for the repairing function of his healing factor to operate. Ergo, the one it still has enough energy for? Yeah, that one takes LESS energy than the one it DOESN'T have enough energy for.

Again, saying that his heart needs blood isn't the same thing as saying that it takes more energy.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, saying that his heart needs blood isn't the same thing as saying that it takes more energy.

You are aware that his healing factor is capable of replacing blood, right? The only reason that it wouldn't? If it lacked the energy to. And yet, despite the fact that Wolverine's body can reach the point where it is unable to replace his blood, at that point, it will still be able to repair wounds. Therefore, repairing wounds takes less energy than replacing blood.

He could have just been talking about losing blood faster than it can be replaced....at no point did he say that it takes more energy to replace blood.

Originally posted by Silent Master
That doesn't actually say that bleeding wounds take more energy to heal.

Well you would have to be able to interpret the panel correctly before YOU could tell us WHAT it says.

Originally posted by leonidas
huh? is he saying his body can't make more blood? 😕

That's not what I'm getting from it.

To me what Logan seems to suggest is that the lack of blood will cause his heart to fail which is just general biology. When you're heart is trying to circulate blood through your system and can't do it, you end up with increased fatigue and heart failure.

If Logan's bled out, his body keeps trying to operate at peak effeciency but it can't without fluids. So he'll drop...... Of course this is what we typically see with Wolverine, he drops from bleed outs more than he does heavy punches.