Originally posted by zopzop
Then what about the Marvel Knights Four arc? Where Gorath was being tripped up like crippled child by Vertigo (exploiting his biggest weakness)?I'm amazed that you use that one WIS incident to back up anything. Gorath was never shown to have a Vertigo weakness before or after so it was the writer of that arc being clueless about who Gorath actually was.
How about a nearly powerless FF (only Torch still had his powers) and the Salem Seven (talk about D-listers) holding their own and actually embarrassing Gorath till Strange showed up and handed him his ass?
Holding their own? No. They were all getting their asses kicked with no chance of winning even against a hungry and severely weak Shuma (states by the narration) and didn't even damage him. They only survived because Strange showed up, who almost died trying to teleport a weak Shuma out of reality 616 by leading the battle to Stonehenge
Or the Invaders Now arc where a bunch of ghosts were holding him off while the Invaders completely ignored him and focused on the super powered Nazis? 😆
Why try to make it out like they were holding off against Shuma's powers when that clearly wasn't the case at all? They merely were used to prevent Shuma-Gorath from crossing through into earth 616 entirely while the warp was still open. No matter how you try and spin it they were all screwed without the Spear of Destiny.
Love how you ignore Shuma-Gorath's encounter with Sise-Neg or that the Vishanti were unable to destroy him. All your criticisms are against a Shuma-Gorath not even close to full power...and yet you want to make every excuse for why Strange got his ass kicked by Hulk even with Zom's power surging through him 😆
Originally posted by CortSether
I'm amazed that you use that one WIS incident to back up anything. Gorath was never shown to have a Vertigo weakness before or after so it was the writer of that arc being clueless about who Gorath actually was.
The fact remains ON PANEL, it was said he has a vertigo/balance weakness. Face it.
Holding their own? No. They were all getting their asses kicked with no chance of winning even against a hungry and severely weak Shuma (states by the narration) and didn't even damage him. They only survived because Strange showed up, who almost died trying to teleport a weak Shuma out of reality 616 by leading the battle to Stonehenge
Where was it stated Gorath was hungry and weak? Lol even if true, we have yet ANOTHER weakness on top of his vertigo/balance weakness. Keep making excuses for this fairy. And Strange didn't almost die, he was just beaten up badly. Lol all bruised and stuff like he actually fist fought a tentacled monster.
Why try to make it out like they were holding off against Shuma's powers when that clearly wasn't the case at all? They merely were used to prevent Shuma-Gorath from crossing through into earth 616 entirely while the warp was still open. No matter how you try and spin it they were all screwed without the Spear of Destiny.Love how you ignore Shuma-Gorath's encounter with Sise-Neg or that the Vishanti were unable to destroy him. All your criticisms are against a Shuma-Gorath not even close to full power...and yet you want to make every excuse for why Strange got his ass kicked by Hulk even with Zom's power surging through him laughing
Lol, now it's a weakness vs a magic spear! Add this to his hunger weakness and balance weakness 😆
The Zom/Huk fight was explained both in WWH 4 and later in Incredible Hulks 619-620, ON PANEL. So cry more.
Originally posted by zopzopThe fact remains ON PANEL, it was said he has a vertigo/balance weakness. Face it.
Yeah, and on-panel Wolverine and Black Panther have both beaten the snot out of Silver Surfer. Doesn't make it valid when it contradicts their power sets. The vertigo weakness was something the writer pulled out of his ass and has no basis on anything before or after, or Strange would have tried to exploit something as simple as this.
Where was it stated Gorath was hungry and weak?
Lol even if true, we have yet ANOTHER weakness on top of his vertigo/balance weakness. Keep making excuses for this fairy. And Strange didn't almost die, he was just beaten up badly. Lol all bruised and stuff like he actually fist fought a tentacled monster.
Not really. First off, the vertigo weakness was clearly WIS/PIS. For one thing, a God's physical form doesn't determine its strengths and weaknesses. Shuma-Gorath can shapeshift into anything it desires so saying vertigo would be an inherent weakness in Shuma-Gorath itself is absolutely idiotic.
Secondly, it's not as if Shuma-Gorath has to have long slumbers at regular intervals. It was stated by Ebora that Shuma-Gorath yearned for rest once, but that would be its final slumber. Because the FF incident is the very next time Shuma-Gorath was actually used that means he was recovering from his fight with Strange beforehand. We don't know how long it took for Shuma's energy to manifest itself back into his realm after Strange released it. But either way one looks at it it is clear that Shuma-Gorath was not even a sliver of its full power when Scratch summoned him. If you're going to stick to the Zom thing then stop bringing up FF because it in no way shows Shuma-Gorath at his full power. Or else we'll say a regular Doctor Strange is automatically > Galactus because Strange took him down once with a simple 'Images of Ikkon' attack.
Lol, now it's a weakness vs a magic spear! Add this to his hunger weakness and balance weakness 😆
I'm sure any other Marvel entity would be harmed by the spear that freakin' pierced the side of Jesus f'n Christ! 😎 Nothing is superior to Christ power. Spear of Destiny has pwned Spectre before and it's treated in the same high regard in DC and Marvel.
The Zom/Huk fight was explained both in WWH 4 and later in Incredible Hulks 619-620, ON PANEL. So cry more.
I only bring up the Zom thing since you love to use WIS/PIS to back up your anti-Shuma thing you've got raging since Day 1.
Originally posted by CortSether
Yeah, and on-panel Wolverine and Black Panther have both beaten the snot out of Silver Surfer. Doesn't make it valid when it contradicts their power sets. The vertigo weakness was something the writer pulled out of his ass and has no basis on anything before or after, or Strange would have tried to exploit something as simple as this.
Strange didn't need to exploit any weakness vs Gorath. Strange has owned Gorath every time they fought. Those D-Listers and Powerless FF needed to exploit it because they were desperate.
Not really. First off, the vertigo weakness was clearly WIS/PIS. For one thing, a God's physical form doesn't determine its strengths and weaknesses. Shuma-Gorath can shapeshift into anything it desires so saying vertigo would be an inherent weakness in Shuma-Gorath itself is absolutely idiotic.
But it's right there, on panel! Obviously someone felt Gorath has a balance weakness.
Secondly, it's not as if Shuma-Gorath has to have long slumbers at regular intervals. It was stated by Ebora that Shuma-Gorath yearned for rest once, but that would be its final slumber. Because the FF incident is the very next time Shuma-Gorath was actually used that means he was recovering from his fight with Strange beforehand. We don't know how long it took for Shuma's energy to manifest itself back into his realm after Strange released it. But either way one looks at it it is clear that Shuma-Gorath was not even a sliver of its full power when Scratch summoned him. If you're going to stick to the Zom thing then stop bringing up FF because it in no way shows Shuma-Gorath at his full power. Or else we'll say a regular Doctor Strange is automatically > Galactus because Strange took him down once with a simple 'Images of Ikkon' attack.
LOL. Gorath struggling to reform after his fight with Strange! Sigh. Zom was dealt with by the LIVING TRIBUNAL, not some mortal sorcerer!
And why do you hold Strange's victory against Jobber King Galactus against Ikonn? Dr. Strange took him down fair and square calling on the power of Ikonn. Live with it.
I'm sure any other Marvel entity would be harmed by the spear that freakin' pierced the side of Jesus f'n Christ! cool Nothing is superior to Christ power. Spear of Destiny has pwned Spectre before and it's treated in the same high regard in DC and Marvel.
This means nothing. "Holy" type attacks only work on certain demons. "Purity" bolts like those used against Mephisto (by Surfer's pure soul) or Dr. Strange on Chthon won't work on others like Set or Zom. In the same way holy water and garlic don't work on werewolves but silver does.
I only bring up the Zom thing since you love to use WIS/PIS to back up your anti-Shuma thing you've got raging since Day 1.
Bring it up all you want, it's actually explained ON PANEL. So it's not like it's my opinion or anything. The reason I "rage" is because Gorath fans love bringing up hyperbole as a feat!
PS what issue was that scan from? Because if it occurred BEFORE Gorath manifested on Earth, it's pointless.
Originally posted by zopzopStrange didn't need to exploit any weakness vs Gorath. Strange has owned Gorath every time they fought. Those D-Listers and Powerless FF needed to exploit it because they were desperate.
Actually Strange had been getting his ass kicked every encounter until he found some way to use the plot to get out of there alive. And in the instance of combating Shuma-Gorath, you keep failing to mention that it wasn't Strange who entered the realm in the first place, he even says himself that Strange is no more. Also, he couldn't even harm Shuma-Gorath until Shuma's own powers were surging through him, which Shuma-Gorath caused to happen by itself, btw.
But it's right there, on panel! Obviously someone felt Gorath has a balance weakness.
Okay, but you're not realizing that a writer can't just pull something out of his ass that contradicts everything else previously established and call it legit.
LOL. Gorath struggling to reform after his fight with Strange! Sigh. Zom was dealt with by the LIVING TRIBUNAL, not some mortal sorcerer!
That mortal sorcerer was stalemating Zom for a good while before Zom was wished away. Mortal Strange was getting absolutely pwned from the get go in the Ancient One's mind and got the hell beat out of hiim by a hungry and weak Shuma-Gorath who couldn't even expel energy aside from flinging his tentacles. Compared to Zom who had a hard time against a noob Strange and exists as a remnant of his former self. Why can't he reform fully? :/
And why do you hold Strange's victory against Jobber King Galactus against Ikonn? Dr. Strange took him down fair and square calling on the power of Ikonn. Live with it.
I'm not saying the feat wasn't legit. What I'm saying is that you can't use that showing as a standard for Galactus' power, same as how you can't use a hungry Shuma to make an argument that he's weak.
This means nothing. "Holy" type attacks only work on certain demons. "Purity" bolts like those used against Mephisto (by Surfer's pure soul) or Dr. Strange on Chthon won't work on others like Set or Zom. In the same way holy water and garlic don't work on werewolves but silver does.
So you're saying Earth's elder gods can take on the spear of destiny? Sure thing. 🙄 It isn't a mere 'holy' type attack. It's the Spear with Christ's powers. And yet all it did was put Shuma-Gorath back in his portal, not kill him. Interestingly, it's already been established that Shuma-Gorath cannot die by Thanos.
Bring it up all you want, it's actually explained ON PANEL. So it's not like it's my opinion or anything. The reason I "rage" is because Gorath fans love bringing up hyperbole as a feat!
His encounter with Sise-Neg and the Vishanti being unable to rid of Shuma-Gorath are more than hyperbole. And the battle between Strange/Arioch w/Shuma's power vs Shuma-Gorath was felt from 1,000 planes away. Also the fact that Shuma-Gorath has shown that he could destroy earth without effort if he actually wanted to without even having to go there. None of the other earth gods have feats like that. It's Shuma's own desire that keeps it from happening. Dormammu was only ever above Shuma with the cosmic axis plot device, and that whole arc was written as a joke anyway. Then there's the fact that Strange even acknowledges that Dormammu is too big-headed to admit inferiority.
PS what issue was that scan from? Because if it occurred BEFORE Gorath manifested on Earth, it's pointless.
Dude, Shuma-Gorath is shown on-panel in that scan...
Originally posted by CortSether
Actually Strange had been getting his ass kicked every encounter until he found some way to use the plot to get out of there alive. And in the instance of combating Shuma-Gorath, you keep failing to mention that it wasn't Strange who entered the realm in the first place, he even says himself that Strange is no more. Also, he couldn't even harm Shuma-Gorath until Shuma's own powers were surging through him, which Shuma-Gorath caused to happen by itself, btw.
But Strange still managed, on his own, to pwn Gorath every time they fought. Strange has never owned Set or Zom that way, EVER.
Okay, but you're not realizing that a writer can't just pull something out of his ass that contradicts everything else previously established and call it legit.
Gorath was crawling around on his tentacles and belly in the Seis-neg flash back so its not exactly a stretch to say he could have balance issues.
That mortal sorcerer was stalemating Zom for a good while before Zom was wished away. Mortal Strange was getting absolutely pwned from the get go in the Ancient One's mind and got the hell beat out of hiim by a hungry and weak Shuma-Gorath who couldn't even expel energy aside from flinging his tentacles. Compared to Zom who had a hard time against a noob Strange and exists as a remnant of his former self. Why can't he reform fully? :/
Mortal Strange WITH the AO's power vs a SHACKLED Zom was holding his own until he got knocked out and Zom didn't finish him off because he was panicking at the coming of the Living Tribunal.
He CAN fully reform, but the Zomling is never given a chance to go through with it's plans.
I'm not saying the feat wasn't legit. What I'm saying is that you can't use that showing as a standard for Galactus' power, same as how you can't use a hungry Shuma to make an argument that he's weak.
Actually yes you can. Galactus is KNOWN to job, just like Gorath. But at least Galactus has fights vs other Cosmic Beings/Abstracts/Gods, Gorath doesn't.
So you're saying Earth's elder gods can take on the spear of destiny? Sure thing. roll eyes (sarcastic) It isn't a mere 'holy' type attack. It's the Spear with Christ's powers. And yet all it did was put Shuma-Gorath back in his portal, not kill him. Interestingly, it's already been established that Shuma-Gorath cannot die by Thanos.
I'm saying you can't just ASSUME it will work because it's NEVER been used against them before. Some demons are vulnerable to "holy" type attacks while others aren't. Set and Zom for sure aren't or Strange would have used this tactic.
The Old Ones CAN die, they just reform. The same as Set and Zom and Mephisto and Satannish and............
His encounter with Sise-Neg and the Vishanti being unable to rid of Shuma-Gorath are more than hyperbole. And the battle between Strange/Arioch w/Shuma's power vs Shuma-Gorath was felt from 1,000 planes away. Also the fact that Shuma-Gorath has shown that he could destroy earth without effort if he actually wanted to without even having to go there. None of the other earth gods have feats like that. It's Shuma's own desire that keeps it from happening. Dormammu was only ever above Shuma with the cosmic axis plot device, and that whole arc was written as a joke anyway. Then there's the fact that Strange even acknowledges that Dormammu is too big-headed to admit inferiority.
His encounter with Neg is meaningless as Neg couldn't be bothered with him till Strange begged him to help the ape men that Gorath was picking on! The Vishanti being unable to deal with Gorath means nothing till we see some combat feats from them.
Lot's of beings can destroy the Earth if they wanted too! Hell Satannish and Mephisto going at it in a pocket dimension was wrecking the 616 reality.
The same Mephisto (and Erishigal, Pluto, Yama, Ahpuch. Hela ran for her life) that was INSTA-KILLED by Demogorge. Yet Demogorge has NO planetary destruction feats.
Originally posted by zopzop
Based purely on feats and previous opponents, I'm gonna say Dormammu for the healthy majority.
Yeah. Based on feats Dormammu is most definitely above Shuma-Gorath. Realistically the only way Shuma-Gorath wins is if the battle is in the Chaos Dimension, where he is near omnipotent. Anywhere else Dormammu takes this for sure.
Even in the Chaos Dimension Dormammu still has a decent chance. Since Doctor Strange beat Shuma there and said that he's gotten so much weaker it's pathetic.... Words of that nature have never been said to Dormammu. And that's just fact...
Originally posted by zopzopyou relize that dormamu was beaten by spiderman he sent him back into his dimention by a brick wall and kick from spiderman than closed it using iron mans machine smh shuma cannot be hurt except by powerful epic magic. dormamu lost to spidy kick brick wall can't be more embarrassing than that 🍺
You realize Gorath has been pwned in his dimension and outside it right? Strange has humiliated Gorath every time they fought. Gorath's most recent appearances are so embarrassing I'm amazed his fans can still rely on the hype to keep the illusion going.I could post some humiliating scans of Gorath being 'punched' in the eye by one of Sue's forcefields, tripped up by Vertigo (balance is his biggest weakness it seems), etc..
Dr Strange usually hands Dormammu his ass most of the times with difficulty.
Dr Strange usually banishes/defeats Shoma Gorath with great difficulty and extreme sacrifice.
All the other scans/sources/feats/whatever for Dormammu's case couldn't invalidate that.
The only place Dormmammu might have the edge against Shuma Gorath is UMVC3 where his mixups are deadly and got buffed but shuma can still beat him if a good player uses him 😄
Originally posted by cpd12589
Yeah. Based on feats Dormammu is most definitely above Shuma-Gorath. Realistically the only way Shuma-Gorath wins is if the battle is in the Chaos Dimension, where he is near omnipotent. Anywhere else Dormammu takes this for sure.Even in the Chaos Dimension Dormammu still has a decent chance. Since Doctor Strange beat Shuma there and said that he's gotten so much weaker it's pathetic.... Words of that nature have never been said to Dormammu. And that's just fact...
Your entire post is embarrassing. 😮
Dormammu is no stronger than Odin.
Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
you relize that dormamu was beaten by spiderman he sent him back into his dimention by a brick wall and kick from spiderman than closed it using iron mans machine smh shuma cannot be hurt except by powerful epic magic. dormamu lost to spidy kick brick wall can't be more embarrassing than that 🍺
That was from a cartoon......
Your entire post is embarrassing. embarrasment Dormammu is no stronger than Odin.
Based on feats Dormammu is without a doubt greater. Most of Shuma-Goraths "feats" are hyperbole. Doctor Strange temporarily destroyed Shuma-Gorath. Doctor Strange has never temporarily destroyed Dormammu. Dormammu claimed to be at least an equal of Zeus and Odin close to his first appearance in Strange Tales. Since then he's become much much more powerful. Beating Eternity and merging with his essence becoming "lord of all creation" then created his own version of Earth with his own Doctor Strange as his servant, imprisoning Gaea, beating Doctor Strange at least as many times as he has him, actually killing Doctor Strange when he became the new Ancient One, and making Phoenix look stupid is just a few of the actual feats he has. Also Odin went for the stalemate in their game of chess because he was afraid of losing to him.
Shuma-Gorath is no doubt more powerful within the Chaos Dimension, but anywhere else Dormammu would most definitely beat him. So if your saying at their maximum power in the dimension of their choosing then Shuma-Gorath is more powerful. But then again not if you count Dormmamu when he was merged with Eternity. Strange considers Eternity the most powerful magical entity in existence (other than the Living Tribunal) and Dormammu beat him. So that has to say something about his raw power and intellect. Also standing on his own against Eternity the first time they battled. Eternity didn't even get close to destroying him, he just sent him to another dimension.
Dr Strange usually hands Dormammu his ass most of the times with difficulty. Dr Strange usually banishes/defeats Shoma Gorath with great difficulty and extreme sacrifice. All the other scans/sources/feats/whatever for Dormammu's case couldn't invalidate that. The only place Dormmammu might have the edge against Shuma Gorath is UMVC3 where his mixups are deadly and got buffed but shuma can still beat him if a good player uses him big grin
Doctor Strange only defeats Dormammu with help. In a all out battle he gets owned. He's beaten him with the help of Clea, Eternity, fighting without powers, or when he gets betrayed by Umar. And when Doctor Strange indirectly beat him due to Mordo's incompetence. When it comes down to raw power, or just a one on one fight Dormammu most definitely wins. Especially now... Doctor Strange has even said that Dormammu is his "most terrible foe" and that "at full power no one could stand against". Compared to Doctor Strange he's just in a different league...