Bat Girl (cassie) vs Punisher

Originally posted by SamZED
Not dodging anything. We've been more or less getting along lately. it started out as a joke post so I ended it with one. If you feel like having a serious debate I do not mind, although we've done it more than once and you already know my opinion on how spider sense reacts to various threats and my opinion on CIS/PIS/consistency. So I suggest we as always agree to disagree.

Nah I don't think we have ever had a full debate about this I usually stop half way through because it think it's absurd.

Yeah you are dodging the point. Your argument is Spiderman can dodge lasers and therefore shouldn't be hit by bullets. Well guess what that applies to all street levelers. You haven't addressed the point that according to your logic all street levelers shouldn't be hit by anything unless its FTL.

You're also arguing that it's CIS that somehow when it comes to punches that his SS works less efficently because punches won't kill him. Well guess what if that were the case he would get bit by bullets more often.

Also his SS isn't that complicated it just gives him prior warning it doesn't makes him move faster than sound. So no he shouldn't be dodging lasers or craploads of machine gunfire in the first place. It's also not neccesarily going to make it work better than non-lethal threats because of its limitations.

None of this makes any sense . You're picking any logic that benefits your characters so essentially Spiderman at full potential should be cosmic level.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nah I don't think we have ever had a full debate about this I usually stop half way through because it think it's absurd.

Yeah you are dodging the point. Your argument is Spiderman can dodge lasers and therefore shouldn't be hit by bullets. Well guess what that applies to all street levelers. You haven't addressed the point that according to your logic all street levelers shouldn't be hit by anything unless its FTL.

You're also arguing that it's CIS that somehow when it comes to punches that his SS works less efficently because punches won't kill him. Well guess what if that were the case he would get bit by bullets more often.

Also his SS isn't that complicated it just gives him prior warning it doesn't makes him move faster than sound. So no he shouldn't be dodging lasers or craploads of machine gunfire in the first place. It's also not neccesarily going to make it work better than non-lethal threats because of its limitations.

None of this makes any sense . You're picking any logic that benefits your characters so essentially Spiderman at full potential should be cosmic level.

Sigh You want a debate fine by me. Just remember - I offered you to "agree to disagree" and you declined.

Anyone who's been in a fight heck anyone who has ever punched a bag knows you can change your punch trajectory. That's has nothing to do with our debate just FYI. And I will never understand how the ability to "predict" where your opponent is gonna dodge will help against someone who gets a warning and against someone who can dodge a bullet after its fired and even twist out of its way in midair after its fired. You never managed to explain this.

Second, spider sense actually is complicated unless you're willing to go by low showings which works both ways. Written correctly ss guides his body out of harms way however its effectivness viraies depending on the level of the threat. So there's a bigger chance to tag Spider-man with a punch than a bullet. And speaking of punches you will never see me argue that every time Spider-man gets his by say Iron Fist it is PIS, he gets punched pretty constantly and sometimes it really is PIS (Ox example) but some times it isnt. And consistency supports this because he gets hit often by trained MAs. However with bullets I dont even need to explain anything, I can just post 5 hundred scans to back my case because unlike punches, for every time Spider-man gets shot there are 10 thousand examples of him dodging bullets. And in far dangerous situations than when facing Punisher. So consistency as well as the impressiveness of his dodging feats is already a proof that him getting shot by Punisher is PIS. Lasers is aim dodging and nothing wrong with that concidering the precog. I believe I covered all your point.

Batgirl wins.

People always sell Punisher short. You say Cass has beaten Shiva? Awesome. Punisher has beaten Daredevil, and unlike Cass he didn't need a plot device to do it. We've been told - on panel - that Cass is only able to beat Shiva because she has a death-wish and subconsciously wants to lose to Cass. You take issue with that explanation? You don't think it makes sense? Maybe you're right... but it is what we've been told, and if you look objectively at her history, the rest of her appearances don't suggest she is someone capable of beating a Lady Shiva caliber opponent. Ask yourself, outside of Shiva - who she can only beat thanks to a flimsy plot device - what top tier MAs has Cass beaten? Batman stalemated her while not even seriously trying. Green Arrow stalemated her. Nightwing stalemated her. David Cain held his own for an extended fight before going down. Tim Drake's beaten her twice. Mr. Fun demolished her... and he has had his ass kicked by Robin in like three panels.

She might be able to beat Frank, but it isn't going to be easy and it is certainly not going to be a 10/10 rage stomp that some people have suggested.

Cass 8/10.