Originally posted by leonidas
i'll take thanos everytime.it's odd. when i discuss thanos, it is--in general--less about 'feats' and more about 'the nature of the character'. sounds funky i know. whenever i think of thanos, i usually think of 2 depictions in particular--the odin battle, and the tyrant battle. at the start of the tyrant battle, tyrant sizes him up and acknowledges that thanos is 'more than the others'. i think that line--moreso than the battle that followed--really defined thanos for me and for marvel. tyrant easily beat down that group of high heralds--en masse--yet still realized thanos was more than they were. likewise, odin destroyed the group that attacked him, yet thanos?
i get kal's speed, and don't doubt that he COULD blitz for a time, but i think thanos WOULD take it then just beat supes down. thanos doesn't lose to heralders--even the highest ones. he has consistently been depicted as being above them. i really don't see this battle being any different. 😬
If Thanos was Superman instead when he faced Tyrant then it would be similar, as in Tryant would have gave Superman props. But didn't Thanos have a cube though?
It's not about who is above who and who is more powerful than who, for that is ABC logic. It's all about who has the tools to win the fight, more like rock paper scissors logic. Otherwise, why debate?
A normal Thor is strong enough to rock Thanos. A bloodlust Superman who is arguable stronger and faster will not only hit Thanos harder but far more times. Thanos could be put down in a matter of seconds to minutes if Superman gets a combo going. This is bloodlusted Superman, so he is more likely not to let up and continue to combo Thanos until it is over.
Lastly, due to the lack of uber speed Thanos possesses, theoretically, Thanos has no way of hitting Superman. Think about it. In a comic, of course we would see Thanos tag superman, otherwise it wouldn't be a good story. But in a forum fight, under full capacity, then it's not likely that Thanos would hit Superman.
As far as the Odin fight I see several things:
1. Thanos is highly resistant against energy projection. And since part of Thanos power is mystical it stands to reason that he can resist mystical attacks fairly well too. Blunt force durability =/= energy projection durability though. A fire resistance device may or may not be also bulletproof as well.
2. PIS. As Thanos was always viewed as around high herald level (even if slightly above). And Odin has always appeared at that time and before to be relatively omnipotent and able to dismiss high heralds with a mere gesture. Not even 100 Thors would be a match for Odin. But we all know 100 Thors would simply dog walk Thanos with ease. But this is ABC logic. I only mentioned it as you were using it yet it still isn't valid in the case of Odin.
Lastly, you assume that Superman hits won't do much to Thanos. This is plain wrong. As all of Thanos appearances of taking blunt hits of herald level beings ALWAYS resulted in him being rocked. In a fight, stun levels increase the more you get hit. That means that if Superman uses speed and hits Thanos many many many times in a very small amount of time then Thanos can go down in no time.
Originally posted by h1a8
If Thanos was Superman instead when he faced Tyrant then it would be similar, as in Tryant would have gave Superman props. But didn't Thanos have a cube though?It's not about who is above who and who is more powerful than who, for that is ABC logic. It's all about who has the tools to win the fight, more like rock paper scissors logic. Otherwise, why debate?
A normal Thor is strong enough to rock Thanos. A bloodlust Superman who is arguable stronger and faster will not only hit Thanos harder but far more times. Thanos could be put down in a matter of seconds to minutes if Superman gets a combo going. This is bloodlusted Superman, so he is more likely not to let up and continue to combo Thanos until it is over.
Lastly, due to the lack of uber speed Thanos possesses, theoretically, Thanos has no way of hitting Superman. Think about it. In a comic, of course we would see Thanos tag superman, otherwise it wouldn't be a good story. But in a forum fight, under full capacity, then it's not likely that Thanos would hit Superman.
As far as the Odin fight I see several things:
1. Thanos is highly resistant against energy projection. And since part of Thanos power is mystical it stands to reason that he can resist mystical attacks fairly well too. Blunt force durability =/= energy projection durability though. A fire resistance device may or may not be also bulletproof as well.2. PIS. As Thanos was always viewed as around high herald level (even if slightly above). And Odin has always appeared at that time and before to be relatively omnipotent and able to dismiss high heralds with a mere gesture. Not even 100 Thors would be a match for Odin. But we all know 100 Thors would simply dog walk Thanos with ease. But this is ABC logic. I only mentioned it as you were using it yet it still isn't valid in the case of Odin.
Lastly, you assume that Superman hits won't do much to Thanos. This is plain wrong. As all of Thanos appearances of taking blunt hits of herald level beings ALWAYS resulted in him being rocked. In a fight, stun levels increase the more you get hit. That means that if Superman uses speed and hits Thanos many many many times in a very small amount of time then Thanos can go down in no time.
yeah..... no. you can speculate tyrant would have given props to him. as likely he'd have sat beside all the others on the ground....
obviously no one in comics can match supes feat-for-feat. thanos doesn't have speed feats? maybe not the kind you want. many have been hinted at though that indicate he can deal with speed. his endurance+shields obviously add to his ability to do so.
regardless, you lost all credibilty at the end. seriously, if you feel superman takes him down 'in no time', you're delusional and i'm forced to come to a conclusion many others have--it's not worth debating you. 😬
for reference though--i'm the guy who argued FOR superman against BOTH thor and surfer.....
thanos is NOT thor or surfer. it's pointless to debate this though. people's minds (like yours and so many others) are made up and there are VERY few who are on the fence and might be swayed. disagree with me? coolio. i get it, i get your arguments, i've seen a million superman scans and have about 600 supes books in my basement.
i still think thanos wins.
and yes, i see the irony.....
Originally posted by leonidasLOL There is no way Superman can beat both SS and Thor for SS is a big problem there.
yeah..... no. you can speculate tyrant would have given props to him. as likely he'd have sat beside all the others on the ground....obviously no one in comics can match supes feat-for-feat. thanos doesn't have speed feats? maybe not the kind you want. many have been hinted at though that indicate he can deal with speed. his endurance+shields obviously add to his ability to do so.
regardless, you lost all credibilty at the end. seriously, if you feel superman takes him down 'in no time', you're delusional and i'm forced to come to a conclusion many others have--it's not worth debating you. 😬
for reference though--i'm the guy who argued FOR superman against BOTH thor and surfer.....
thanos is NOT thor or surfer. it's pointless to debate this though. people's minds (like yours and so many others) are made up and there are VERY few who are on the fence and might be swayed. disagree with me? coolio. i get it, i get your arguments, i've seen a million superman scans and have about 600 supes books in my basement.
i still think thanos wins.
and yes, i see the irony.....
I didn't mean 'no time' literally. I meant Superman can win faster than the average normal fight. IMO, I believe Superman can win in a matter of minutes up to an hour.
Ok. Let's see. Answer these questions. Then either I would agree with you or it would simply make the debate more meaningful. I just want to understand you better (not necessarily debate against you).
1. If Thanos stood still like a punching bag, then how many times do you think a bloodlusted Superman would have to hit him to ko him? Just give an estimate like between 20-100 or something like that.
2. If Superman wasn't allowed to attack, then how long do you think it would take Thanos to hit Superman? Give estimate like 10- 20 min.
3. Do you think in this thread you are going more by what should happen based off Caliber and assumed writer's opinions of where characters lie?
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Even with a ringpop, Thanos will turn Superman into a superwoman in a 1v1.
More like he will turn him into Superdead.
It's already establish (but fanboy won't admit) that Thanos can is much, much more powerful that Sups, can tank his shits, and he's probably able to react to him, even if he can destroy him with an omni-directionnal blast, or protect himself with his shields.
But there's, again, one other option to **** Sup's day even before the fight begin:
Telepathy.
Charles Xaver had to go to the limit to even caught Galactus attention. Charles Xavier is aguarbly one of the most powerful telepath on Earth.
Thanos went threw Galactus defense and went directly in his head, before Galactus owned him. But the fact is there: Thanos possess stupidly powerful telepathy, and could very well kill Sups before he got the chance to do anything.
Originally posted by h1a8
LOL There is no way Superman can beat both SS and Thor for SS is a big problem there.
Even I wouldn't argue that.I didn't mean 'no time' literally. I meant Superman can win faster than the average normal fight. IMO, I believe Superman can win in a matter of minutes up to an hour.
Ok. Let's see. Answer these questions. Then either I would agree with you or it would simply make the debate more meaningful. I just want to understand you better (not necessarily debate against you).
1. If Thanos stood still like a punching bag, then how many times do you think a bloodlusted Superman would have to hit him to ko him? Just give an estimate like between 20-100 or something like that.
2. If Superman wasn't allowed to attack, then how long do you think it would take Thanos to hit Superman? Give estimate like 10- 20 min.
3. Do you think in this thread you are going more by what should happen based off Caliber and assumed writer's opinions of where characters lie?
oi vey.....
1. i've absolutely no idea. i mean, seriously, no clue. how many punches would it take thor? beats me. how many shots could his ff take? IMPOSSIBLE to even estimate an answer.
2. as long as it took to unleash one omniblast. he could try tp but i think the ring offers pretty uber portection.
3. i'm going off of my overall perceptions of each character and how they are most consistently portrayed.
superman is a tricky one. he is perceived differently than any company perceives any other character, imo. as a result, he can do things (defeat characters, perform feats) other characters in his 'weight class' cannot. i understand that. that is not something quantifiable however. some might say it is PIS, or that a character who is greater than supes lost to supes because he 'jobbed'. i don't see it that way at all--superman does things others can't because dc WANTS him to. that is NOT pis or jobbing. that IS his character. i mean honestly--who can be surprised anymore by what he does?
that said, in this forum match, i'd take thanos because barring this, hmmm...... 'icon power' (??) superman is pretty unique for, i think he's viewed most commonly and portrayed most commonly AS a high herald level character. as such, he isn't winning this match. even with a ring.
of all the high heralds, i do think clark has the best chance and could do the best against thanos. but barring him going all iconic, he can't beat him in battle.
Originally posted by leonidas
oi vey.....1. i've absolutely no idea. i mean, seriously, no clue. how many punches would it take thor? beats me. how many shots could his ff take? IMPOSSIBLE to even estimate an answer.
2. as long as it took to unleash one omniblast. he could try tp but i think the ring offers pretty uber portection.
3. i'm going off of my overall perceptions of each character and how they are most consistently portrayed.
superman is a tricky one. he is perceived differently than any company perceives any other character, imo. as a result, he can do things (defeat characters, perform feats) other characters in his 'weight class' cannot. i understand that. that is not something quantifiable however. some might say it is PIS, or that a character who is greater than supes lost to supes because he 'jobbed'. i don't see it that way at all--superman does things others can't because dc WANTS him to. that is NOT pis or jobbing. that IS his character. i mean honestly--who can be surprised anymore by what he does?
that said, in this forum match, i'd take thanos because barring this, hmmm...... 'icon power' (??) superman is pretty unique for, i think he's viewed most commonly and portrayed most commonly AS a high herald level character. as such, he isn't winning this match. even with a ring.
of all the high heralds, i do think clark has the best chance and could do the best against thanos. but barring him going all iconic, he can't beat him in battle.
If you can't answer 1. then how would you know who wins? You don't even know the amount of damage each will be dealing to each other.
Superman without the ring has resistance to tp.
How characters are portrayed has absolutely nothing to do with who would win in a real fight provided they now existed. This is not about who would win in a comic, but who would win in a fight if both fought to their best ability under full capacity (which doesn't happen in the comics a lot). We must be smart enough to decide which things in comics wouldn't happen in a forum fight and which things will. The things that wouldn't are things where writers have characters not using their powers to their fullest in order to have a story.
Originally posted by Nihilist
So are you saying we cant use any of Thanos speed reaction feats(Fallen one,Ganymede,Jack Of Hearts or him blocking energy/hammer throws) as proof that Thanos will or at some point react to block or counter Superman, taking into account his very high lvl of durabilty/damage keeping him well within the fight whilst he may be getting blitzed by Superman.
No. Where did what I say have anything even close to that?
If he has decent, consistent showings of dealing with those using speed on him, then he has decent reflexes.
Originally posted by leonidasMaybe it's not an icon thing, or a story thing.
oi vey.....1. i've absolutely no idea. i mean, seriously, no clue. how many punches would it take thor? beats me. how many shots could his ff take? IMPOSSIBLE to even estimate an answer.
2. as long as it took to unleash one omniblast. he could try tp but i think the ring offers pretty uber portection.
3. i'm going off of my overall perceptions of each character and how they are most consistently portrayed.
superman is a tricky one. he is perceived differently than any company perceives any other character, imo. as a result, he can do things (defeat characters, perform feats) other characters in his 'weight class' cannot. i understand that. that is not something quantifiable however. some might say it is PIS, or that a character who is greater than supes lost to supes because he 'jobbed'. i don't see it that way at all--superman does things others can't because dc WANTS him to. that is NOT pis or jobbing. that IS his character. i mean honestly--who can be surprised anymore by what he does?
that said, in this forum match, i'd take thanos because barring this, hmmm...... 'icon power' (??) superman is pretty unique for, i think he's viewed most commonly and portrayed most commonly AS a high herald level character. as such, he isn't winning this match. even with a ring.
of all the high heralds, i do think clark has the best chance and could do the best against thanos. but barring him going all iconic, he can't beat him in battle.
Maybe he's just that good. Maybe he really is that powerful.
Also, Champ with the gem? He didn't do anything Super couldn't do. And he fought like a brain damaged monkey. His best feat was smashing a planet in one blow. And he stopped the hammer with a forcefield. Superman is fast enough to dodge it outright.
Originally posted by h1a8
We must be smart enough to decide which things in comics wouldn't happen in a forum fight and which things will. The things that wouldn't are things where writers have characters not using their powers to their fullest in order to have a story.
or are those OTHER stories stories in which the writers are willing to allow power outputs that are not consistent with said character?
writers vary in their definitions and limits of power. and by your definition, we, at times, are forced to simply discredit things like actual ON-PANEL dialogue. examples you say? what about supes saying thor was the toughest opponent he ever faced? supes vs hulk in marvel vs dc? what about thor's dialogue against wolverine (a heated topic in another thread) where thor claims logan is too fast, and that he is hitting with his hardest blows (or some such equivalent)? i've also heard you make claims that are forced speculation--along the lines of superman ALWAYS holds back--even when dialogue would prove otherwise. i very rarely call pis--i simply think different writers allow for different things. which is why i will--generally-argue for a broader, most consistent level of power in forum matches.
my stance is pretty clear--based on my knowledge of each, and their most consistent portrayals, thanos wins.
Originally posted by leonidasBut it is not how characters are portrayed that determines the victor in a forum fight. It is how the battle will most reasonably unfold. To decide who would win without even knowing or creating an opinion of how you think the fight will go is asinine. "Thanos is portrayed at a higher level than Superman so he wins." is just plain silly.
or are those OTHER stories stories in which the writers are willing to allow power outputs that are not consistent with said character?writers vary in their definitions and limits of power. and by your definition, we, at times, are forced to simply discredit things like actual ON-PANEL dialogue. examples you say? what about supes saying thor was the toughest opponent he ever faced? supes vs hulk in marvel vs dc? what about thor's dialogue against wolverine (a heated topic in another thread) where thor claims logan is too fast, and that he is hitting with his hardest blows (or some such equivalent)? i've also heard you make claims that are forced speculation--along the lines of superman ALWAYS holds back--even when dialogue would prove otherwise. i very rarely call pis--i simply think different writers allow for different things. which is why i will--generally-argue for a broader, most consistent level of power in forum matches.
my stance is pretty clear--based on my knowledge of each, and their most consistent portrayals, thanos wins.
Originally posted by h1a8
But it is not how characters are portrayed that determines the victor in a forum fight. It is how the battle will most reasonably unfold. To decide who would win without even knowing or creating an opinion of how you think the fight will go is asinine. "Thanos is portrayed at a higher level than Superman so he wins." is just plain silly.
clark blitzes, lands some blows, gets hit with an omniblast and staggered, another blast stuns him more then thanos finishes him off with blasts or punches.
or supes blitzes, thanos teleports, clark stops to figure it out and gets blasted and stunned. see above.
or clark comes in and gets halted with tk as he stopped mjollnir. blast. see above.
or he comes in and gets f'd momentarily by tp. then blasted. see above.
😐
he's portaryed at a higher level=he is more powerful, can tank hits then polish him off.
not silly at all, really.
Originally posted by leonidas
clark blitzes, lands some blows, gets hit with an omniblast and staggered, another blast stuns him more then thanos finishes him off with blasts or punches.or supes blitzes, thanos teleports, clark stops to figure it out and gets blasted and stunned. see above.
or clark comes in and gets halted with tk as he stopped mjollnir. blast. see above.
or he comes in and gets f'd momentarily by tp. then blasted. see above.
😐
he's portaryed at a higher level=he is more powerful, can tank hits then polish him off.
not silly at all, really.
Finally a true debate. Now you are talking. Good stuff.
This is what comic debating is all about.
I see Superman blitzing him, not right away though, and stunning him with powerful enough blows and not letting up and koing Thanos.
Thanos teleporting to dodge Superman? Omniblasts? This isn't how Thanos typically fights. He uses more shields and take blows. If Thanos can fight this way then it should be allowed for Superman to blitz from the get go and combo him to ko and fight completely with CIS off. Isn't the omniblast a one off feat anyway?
Also a teleport is instant (otherwise it would be leaving the battlefield). That means the moment Thanos appears Superman would see or sense him. Superman is far faster than thus will probably realize Thanos has appeared before Thanos realizes it.
Thanos TK is not strong enough to halt Superman (as if he could even use that tactic before Superman pops him). Several characters (even one's weaker than Superman) have batted Mljonir away. Stopping the hammer in the air is a nothing feat here and doesn't prove that someone who is capable of moving planets will even slow down.
You can't tank hits that are stunning you and also accumulating a larger stun effect on you until you are koed.
Thanos hasn't been proven with the durability to withstand high herald blunt force attacks and not get rocked. His energy durability is awesome though.