Originally posted by -Pr-
except that the way it is on the this forum, it's harder for Superman to get the benefit of the doubt on this forum than it is for Thor or Surfer. His feats get more scrutiny, the character is more hated, and he has less people defending him in most cases too. In cross company matches, he's worse off than almost any top tier.
hmm, i'm not sure i'd agree with that. fact is he has MORE feats then anyone. more scrutinized? not sure about that either--least not from what i've seen. what IS true is the fact that he DOES have a lot of haters. personally i've NEVER gotten that. i think it's because of the simplicity of his powerset. no one wants to think that someone without an exotic powerset can beat the people he has beaten. as a result, you're right--he is RARELY given the benefit of the doubt against other top tiers who are more versatile--rightly or wrongly. regardless, what you're saying has happened to him in the past is certainly not a reason for superman fans to 'return the favor'. 😬
it seems to happen a lot--least since i've returned--in superman threads.
I don't know if Superman can beat Thanos; I honestly don't read enough of Thanos to be able to judge. But the way the people go on in this thread is the exact same way the haters go on about Superman in other threads. A reaction was always going to happen.
i know that. but the thread becomes pointless at that point as everyone has their minds made up--some refusing to budge on a stance simply out of spite. i know i can't stop it from happening, but it's no less aggravating when it does.
You can complain about how people talk about Superman being able to beat Thanos,
never complained--grew quickly tired of the flaming and trolling 'talk' that was being equated with a 'defense' of the character. i'm ALWAYS more than willing to have a discussion about a match. that's not what was happening in this thread. i accept responsibility however, and knew what was likely to happen as soon as i posted. which is why i opted to take my leave in the thread.
but we've both been here long enough to know that it used to be a lot better than this;
😂
amen to that brother. even way back there were crazy heated debates--what did NOT happen with near the frequency is the flaming. i can't stomach flaming in the forum, and it happens far too often now.
the haters have just brought it on themselves with their incessant lowballing just because they can't get over the fact that Superman in most cases beats the living shit out of their favourite character.
gotta be careful there though, imo. saying they 'brought it on themselves' is pretty general and that type of opinion helps lead to what's been happening. not accusing you, personally, but the mindset seems to be pretty entrenched. besides, i've seen LOADS of people defend kal--rationally. I'VE done it many many times. i also stated my case HERE pretty clearly i think. and i'm happy to have people disagree. just disagree and move on, or raise a question and have a discussion.
f*ck, the only reason i tend to debate for superman is because i don't need to defend people like hulk and surfer; they already have an army of overhyping fanboys backing them. sure, both characters (and a few others) have decent, reasonable fans, but there's always more idiots.
😂
when i first joined the forum i was shocked by the dearth of superman fans. i used to debate for him ALL the time--even when i didn't believe it myself. me and whirly would prop up supes in almost every thread!
anyway, as i said--i'll leave the thread. nothing new will come of it nor will minds be changed.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
just say "u mad"superman's serious business
as someone who likes the hulk on this forum, i can't offer you any compassion
😂
i had a HUGE hulk debate once. hulk's strength vs power gem. THAT was a fun thread. hulk REALLY doesn't get much love here. where's good old devilhulk?? 😂
Originally posted by leonidas
😂i had a HUGE hulk debate once. hulk's strength vs power gem. THAT was a fun thread. hulk REALLY doesn't get much love here. where's good old devilhulk?? 😂
Bingo. its pretty inaccurate to say the least to claim that hulk has an army of support around here.
Ive been reading on this site since 05, heck i had a brief account in 05 infact, and hulks support has steadily declined....nowadays "hulk gets stomped" is a response that is found in almost every hulk thread.
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i'm not sure i'd agree with that. fact is he has MORE feats then anyone. more scrutinized? not sure about that either--least not from what i've seen. what IS true is the fact that he DOES have a lot of haters. personally i've NEVER gotten that. i think it's because of the simplicity of his powerset. no one wants to think that someone without an exotic powerset can beat the people he has beaten. as a result, you're right--he is RARELY given the benefit of the doubt against other top tiers who are more versatile--rightly or wrongly. regardless, what you're saying has happened to him in the past is certainly not a reason for superman fans to 'return the favor'. 😬it seems to happen a lot--least since i've returned--in superman threads.
i know that. but the thread becomes pointless at that point as everyone has their minds made up--some refusing to budge on a stance simply out of spite. i know i can't stop it from happening, but it's no less aggravating when it does.
never complained--grew quickly tired of the flaming and trolling 'talk' that was being equated with a 'defense' of the character. i'm ALWAYS more than willing to have a discussion about a match. that's not what was happening in this thread. i accept responsibility however, and knew what was likely to happen as soon as i posted. which is why i opted to take my leave in the thread.
😂
amen to that brother. even way back there were crazy heated debates--what did NOT happen with near the frequency is the flaming. i can't stomach flaming in the forum, and it happens far too often now.
gotta be careful there though, imo. saying they 'brought it on themselves' is pretty general and that type of opinion helps lead to what's been happening. not accusing you, personally, but the mindset seems to be pretty entrenched. besides, i've seen LOADS of people defend kal--rationally. I'VE done it many many times. i also stated my case HERE pretty clearly i think. and i'm happy to have people disagree. just disagree and move on, or raise a question and have a discussion.
😂
when i first joined the forum i was shocked by the dearth of superman fans. i used to debate for him ALL the time--even when i didn't believe it myself. me and whirly would prop up supes in almost every thread!
anyway, as i said--i'll leave the thread. nothing new will come of it nor will minds be changed.
you just hadddd to break it up, didn't you.
i'll try to be brief.
yes, Superman gets more scrutiny.
Surfer is thought by a fair few to be a constantly cosmic aware, black hole in your head making, can see your greatest weakness just by looking at you herald that once took down two of galactus' equals under his own power.
hulk gets stronger as much as hulk want, because hulk is strongest there is.
thor can godblast and do a million things with his hammer. he's also every bit the physical equal of any other herald.
flash has the speedforce, and can wipe the floor with anyone.
superman... i've seen people claim that superman WOULD (not could, WOULD) lose to people like Beta Ray Bill, Vulcan, Storm (half-kidding), and several other metas.
For a long time on this board, people refused to believe that he actually HAD impressive combat speed (and even now, some people still bring it up). Even if you wanted to support the things I said about Thor, Surfer, Hulk etc, the truth is that people won't give Superman the same leeway in feats that would be considered average.
He is more scrutinised by the marvel fans. Everything from his strength feats to his durability to even his heat vision is treated as sub standard when compared to other heralds by a lot of people on this board. hell, thor gets more flak from wolverine fans than he ever did from the dc side of the board.
you can put that down to there being ignorance, hate, or just plain Marvel having more fans on this board, but it does exist.
the brought it on themselves thing is something that, unfortunately, has to exist on this board to maintain traffic. if everyone was in agreement with one another, the forum would die. so there has to be conflicting viewpoints. It's only when you get the excessive trolls that we have to ban, are we able to prune and keep the forum relatively healthy.
people (and i dont mean you specifically) might complain about trick, or h1a8, or whatever, but there is a list the length of my arm of people who are as bad as they can be (sorry guys). we can't ban everyone, so we try to have something resembling balance. so someone doesn't like how trick posts? these are usually the kinds of people that themselves are just as bad. there is that "marvel vs dc" thing on this board. it's always going to exist. we're just trying to do what we can about it.
that said, we won't allow everyone. when we think things are getting out of hand, we'll do our best to deal with it. we'll ban who we can, when we can. bada and i currently have a list of people, and the second we have enough to get rid of them, they're gone.
and yes, superman did used to have more fans/supporters. its just not the way it used to be, sadly. that's the only reason i feel i have to bloody post, because i hate people who get petty instead of actually just having a reason why they think their character wins.
so much for being brief...
Originally posted by leonidas
😂i had a HUGE hulk debate once. hulk's strength vs power gem. THAT was a fun thread. hulk REALLY doesn't get much love here. where's good old devilhulk?? 😂
his support has steadily declined, and yet he still gets decent support.
Originally posted by leonidasWell said.
it does seem that way at times, doesn't it? that's why i didn't want to debate the thread. minds are made up. problem is, some of the people in the thread actually make me DISLIKE superman. superman is AWESOME. i had a superman encyclopedia in KINDERGARTEN! he does not NEED wanking. that's the irony. the supposed superman 'fans' are actually having the opposite effect on their guy.a blitzing, PO'D ss was ko'd in 3 punches. a PG thor who one-shotted a group of uber heroes couldn't do more than stalemate thanos. in another arc thor had to call on asgard for an uber amp to battle and defeat a thanos CLONE. tyrant and odin crush groups of heralds yet thanos stays and battles in prolonged contests with each. thanos has NEVER, EVER, been defeated by a herald leveller--not once, not even by thor or ss. at his inception he was withstanding planetary destruction.
i hear a lot of--superman has taken greater. superman hits harder. superman has seen better tp. yadda-yadda. yeah? here's something revelatory--so has THOR. so has SS. and yet? it is NOT jobbing--such a stupid term--it is marvel constantly and CONSISTENTLY depicting thanos as being well above such heroes. it really isn't that hard. so supes has taken greater? great. should i show some of the times he has been unable to take LESS?? course not--those would all be PIS, or 'superman holding back'. ridiculous. thanos HAS no such moment. herald levellers don't beat him. that's it. if someone wants to argue clark to trans, be my guest--several in this thread are doing just that anyway.
the whole argument for clark here is--he's different. thor can't beat thanos. ss can't beat thanos. no single hero in marvel can beat him yet...... superman can. because he has feats to show it!!!1@1 (like thor and ss) and because he's somehow different. i agree--he IS different. but i still can't give him the win over someone who is CONSISTENTLY--not just 'at times'--is depicted as being WELL above even the highest herald
this thread is pointless and i happily leave it to others to 'debate'.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestHer's the problem wit your debating. You discount everything you don't agree with. Oh that doesn't count that guy didn't know anything about the new gods. Oh that doesn't count Thanos was written by starlin and he's a hack. You can't pick and choose what counts and what doesn't.
Show me Thanos when Starlin isn't writing him or when his jobber aura is off. 😉 Starlin's a hack writer who will never let his creation lose. And on KMC, the full capacity rule is in effect. That goes both ways.
Leo made the point clear top tiers don't beat Thanos. Ever.
Originally posted by -Pr-
you just hadddd to break it up, didn't you.i'll try to be brief.
yes, Superman gets more scrutiny.
Surfer is thought by a fair few to be a constantly cosmic aware, black hole in your head making, can see your greatest weakness just by looking at you herald that once took down two of galactus' equals under his own power.
hulk gets stronger as much as hulk want, because hulk is strongest there is.
thor can godblast and do a million things with his hammer. he's also every bit the physical equal of any other herald.
flash has the speedforce, and can wipe the floor with anyone.
superman... i've seen people claim that superman WOULD (not could, WOULD) lose to people like Beta Ray Bill, Vulcan, Storm (half-kidding), and several other metas.
For a long time on this board, people refused to believe that he actually HAD impressive combat speed (and even now, some people still bring it up). Even if you wanted to support the things I said about Thor, Surfer, Hulk etc, the truth is that people won't give Superman the same leeway in feats that would be considered average.
He is more scrutinised by the marvel fans. Everything from his strength feats to his durability to even his heat vision is treated as sub standard when compared to other heralds by a lot of people on this board. hell, thor gets more flak from wolverine fans than he ever did from the dc side of the board.
you can put that down to there being ignorance, hate, or just plain Marvel having more fans on this board, but it does exist.
the brought it on themselves thing is something that, unfortunately, has to exist on this board to maintain traffic. if everyone was in agreement with one another, the forum would die. so there has to be conflicting viewpoints. It's only when you get the excessive trolls that we have to ban, are we able to prune and keep the forum relatively healthy.
people (and i dont mean you specifically) might complain about trick, or h1a8, or whatever, but there is a list the length of my arm of people who are as bad as they can be (sorry guys). we can't ban everyone, so we try to have something resembling balance. so someone doesn't like how trick posts? these are usually the kinds of people that themselves are just as bad. there is that "marvel vs dc" thing on this board. it's always going to exist. we're just trying to do what we can about it.
that said, we won't allow everyone. when we think things are getting out of hand, we'll do our best to deal with it. we'll ban who we can, when we can. bada and i currently have a list of people, and the second we have enough to get rid of them, they're gone.
and yes, superman did used to have more fans/supporters. its just not the way it used to be, sadly. that's the only reason i feel i have to bloody post, because i hate people who get petty instead of actually just having a reason why they think their character wins.
so much for being brief...
his support has steadily declined, and yet he still gets decent support.
well, seeing as how that is the longest post i've ever seen you make, i think my job here is done. 😂
i think we both used a lot of words to agree completely on what is happening. don't get me wrong--i get that disagreement is the life's blood of the forum. AT TIMES, it gets irritating reading the same arguments over and over and reading the flames. i think i've used the report button exactly ONCE in all my years on the forum. (insert OLD JOKE here, bastich!) i certainly wouldn't want trick or h1 banned. i disagreed with what they said, said my piece and was perfectly fine moving on. in fact, h1 and i were having a solid enough discussion for a time. nor, for the record, did i bring any of this to YOUR attention--i merely stated my opinion and moved on.
as far as the other heroes you mentioned--superman is and always WILL be at a disadvantage on this board. with guys like ss and thor in particular. they have so many powers and superman fans have little to fall back on save strength and speed. sooooooooooo many debates about superman's speed! superman CAN be hard to defend at times--so much of what makes him superman is the unique view of him dc takes. he's unlike any other hero in any other company in that regard. but so much of what makes him SUPERMAN is undefineable and unquantifiable--therefore you have a lot of calls of PIS or jobbing. lord i hate both terms......
i think what makes things in the forum overly difficult at times is the use of 'full powers'. debates rise and fall and turn ugly based on high-balling or low-balling. i've usually tried to follow the course of most consistent depiction. some people don't like it though and that's fine--just don't call me an idiot because i try and take that sort of view, is all i'm saying.
on the whole the forum is still fun, despite the occasional frustration. i've learned loads and think there are still plenty of good, knowledgeable people here. pologies if you feel you needed to step in. like i said--at times frustration DOES set in.....
Originally posted by leonidas
😂in what regard?
Nah, we do to a point. The second paragraph, in places, just wouldn't be something I'd agree with, and I think is an inherent problem in the way people view Superman sometimes.
"So little to fall back on" primarily.
I mean, yes, I know that he's hard to quantify at times, due to certain aspects of the character and how he's viewed, but stating that he hasn't got much to fall back sounds a bit... I dunno... Wrong, I guess.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Nah, we do to a point. The second paragraph, in places, just wouldn't be something I'd agree with, and I think is an inherent problem in the way people view Superman sometimes."So little to fall back on" primarily.
I mean, yes, I know that he's hard to quantify at times, due to certain aspects of the character and how he's viewed, but stating that he hasn't got much to fall back sounds a bit... I dunno... Wrong, I guess.
well, you've seen people debate superman. and it generally goes like this--speed blitz, combat speed feat, pound-to-ko. occasionally you get the HV argument thrown in (which is generally underrated) and at times you get things like vibrational attacks. but, in general, to counter most exotic powers it is his speed that comes up. because marvel and dc depict speed differently, it generally comes down to that.
when i say he has 'less to fall back on' i mean his biggest assets are strength and speed. that can at times make it difficult to defend him. you disagree?
Originally posted by Naija boymost of the hulk supporters have been banned
Bingo. its pretty inaccurate to say the least to claim that hulk has an army of support around here.Ive been reading on this site since 05, heck i had a brief account in 05 infact, and hulks support has steadily declined....nowadays "hulk gets stomped" is a response that is found in almost every hulk thread.
Originally posted by Starscream M
wasn't kutulu also a big hulk fan?it really seems all the hulk fans have been banned
nowadays you just get the thor/superman fan squadron
the surfer crowd always tends to be pretty laid back and quiet...guess why they're surfer fans 🙂
and the logan fans. ss fans generally don't get all that riled up, i agree. i think thanos certainly has his collection of fans as well. i've never really been a member of ANY fanclub i guess. accept mindset's. 😄