Originally posted by ScreamPasteI don't care how smart he is, something CANNOT come from nothing. Now that might be your point, I just wanted to make a statement anyway.
Pinkie Pie is correct that "nothing" would not be a black void, you require space for their to be a void, and while this is hard to imagine, "nothing" implies no space for their to be a void.According to Mr Hawking before the Big Bang space and time would not have existed. 😉
If I could I would, but unfortunately that doesn't help your argument.
I had a discussion with a friend the other day, and we came to this conclusion. Both science and religion end up at the same paradox, infinity. Now, we as a species have a really hard time comprehending infinity, but it HAS to exist for anything TOO exist. For the big bang to have begun, something HAD to have started it, it is simply impossible for something to happen without some sort of intervention, and the way Hawking says it, there was absolutely nothing. So, time could not have "started" it would have had to be infinite, otherwise there would be nothing to have started it to begin with.
Now, from an LDS standpoint, we know that in the after life, we will gain a perfect knowledge, having the veil removed. So infinity wont seem impossible anymore. I know it seems like a rather lazy argument,"I don't know the answer now, but I will when I die." But honestly...it makes more sense than the alternative imo.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Pinkie Pie is correct that "nothing" would not be a black void, you require space for their to be a void, and while this is hard to imagine, "nothing" implies no space for their to be a void.According to Mr Hawking before the Big Bang space and time would not have existed. 😉
Apparently hes overated. No offense but I suspect he gets hype because of his condition.
Originally posted by DeadlinePardon?
Apparently hes overated. No offense but I suspect he gets hype because of his condition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking
This man knows more about science than you. He's one of the most well respected authorities on the matter on the planet. You cannot simply hand wave him as over hyped, especially not with such an ignorant claim as his condition being the cause. He's come up with ideas, crunched numbers and written books you probably can't understand. 😐
Pardon me if I take his word over a forum goer handwaving him as an overrated cripple.
Originally posted by ScreamPasteSoooo, because he is popular, you are willing to dismiss common sense?
Pardon?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking
This man knows more about science than you. He's one of the most well respected authorities on the matter on the planet. You cannot simply hand wave him as over hyped, especially not with such an ignorant claim as his condition being the cause. He's come up with ideas, crunched numbers and written books you probably can't understand. 😐
Pardon me if I take his word over a forum goer handwaving him as an overrated cripple.
Originally posted by menokokoroCommon sense:
Soooo, because he is popular, you are willing to dismiss common sense?
Stephen Hawking knows more about something he's spent most of his life researching and working on than you. 😐
Not dismissing anything. I'm telling you how it is. A black void is something. You need space to have a void, which is emptiness. Nothing implies there is no space.
So, these two things line up perfectly with "Hawking > You". 😐
Originally posted by ScreamPasteOh, that isn't what I was saying, I agree with that aspect, THAT makes sense. I'm saying, that there CAN'T be nothing, there always has to be something, nothing can come from nothing, and nothing else.
Common sense:Stephen Hawking knows more about something he's spent most of his life researching and working on than you. 😐
Not dismissing anything. I'm telling you how it is. A black void is something. You need space to have a void, which is emptiness. Nothing implies there is no space.
So, these two things line up perfectly with "Hawking > You". 😐
The common sense I'm talking about is the fact that math has already proven what I am saying, so because someone who is smarter than me saying otherwise means nothing to me.
Originally posted by menokokoro
No, it doesn't matter, there is no math that can prove than something can come from nothing, there IS math that proves the exact opposite actually.
hence why I think you should look into the models
none of them say 0 = 1
in fact, they go to pains to try and describe the pre-universe is some terms that makes sense outside of math, though, like with quantum mechanics, it really isn't something we can explain through the conventions of our language and common experience
though, feel free to hand wave science all you want. "It just can't be" has, historically at least, been a terrible argument
Originally posted by Deadline
Apparently hes overated. No offense but I suspect he gets hype because of his condition.
maybe in popular culture... but 99% of people have no idea about the mechanics of science anyways, so I hardly think it is relevant that regular people don't understand the nuances of cosmology
Originally posted by RobtardJacob 4:8 "Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. " I realize I am using scripture to try and argue against science. But think of this with an open mind please. If God is infinite, and created everything, and has a plan for every single of his trillions and trillions of children, how can we ever hope to comprehend how he works, or what his plan is?
Where did God come from? Where is the math that shows God is infinite? etc ad barfiniumBut as I said, Hawking does use something, the Laws of Science.
That is the problem with science, it is arrogant, they think because they have a theory they are right and there couldn't possibly be another answer (at least the bad scientists 😛 ). And before you say that I am the same way with religion. I believe everything, or nearly everything, CAN be explained with science, but I just think that certain things are just a little over our pay grade.
For the record, while I support Hawking, I am a Christian. 😐 I'm in favour of God, I believe the fundamental constants of our universe are simply too perfect for random chance to have spawned them.
Hawking is still awesome, and smarter than we are. He's an atheist, but doesn't strike me as dismissive of others' beliefs. He supports his own with his own reasoning. And surprisingly it has nothing to do with his condition. Angsty teens everywhere could learn.
Originally posted by menokokoro
Jacob 4:8 "Behold, great and marvelous are the works of the Lord. How unsearchable are the depths of the mysteries of him; and it is impossible that man should find out all his ways. And no man knoweth of his ways save it be revealed unto him; wherefore, brethren, despise not the revelations of God. " I realize I am using scripture to try and argue against science. But think of this with an open mind please. If God is infinite, and created everything, and has a plan for every single of his trillions and trillions of children, how can we ever hope to comprehend how he works, or what his plan is?That is the problem with science, it is arrogant, they think because they have a theory they are right and there couldn't possibly be another answer (at least the bad scientists 😛 ). And before you say that I am the same way with religion. I believe everything, or nearly everything, CAN be explained with science, but I just think that certain things are just a little over our pay grade.
Originally posted by inimalist
teh bible, DUR!
Originally posted by menokokoro
Oh, that isn't what I was saying, I agree with that aspect, THAT makes sense. I'm saying, that there CAN'T be nothing, there always has to be something, nothing can come from nothing, and nothing else.The common sense I'm talking about is the fact that math has already proven what I am saying, so because someone who is smarter than me saying otherwise means nothing to me.
Bull