Superman wants to kill you

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So why bring it up if it's inadmissible in the first place? Aside from trying to take a dig at butthurt Thor/Marvel fanboys in a thread Thor's not even in?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How is it relevant to anything if Superman was barely able to beat Thor by his own admission in said inadmissible crossover and likened him to just about the toughest person he's ever faced and Thor and Hulk are in the same level of strength class? And in the non-canon Marvel vs. DC, after Superman beat Professor Hulk, he likewise said Hulk stood up to almost everything he had anyway?

If we accept those as canon and useable feats for Superman, while it does show Superman being physically superior to Thor/Hulk in those instances, it certainly doesn't justify him one-shotting or easily defeating them in combat at all and only reinforces the point I made earlier about Superman not being able to one shot or even two or three shot WWH.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Because I'm not using it to make a comparison between Thor and Superman - I'm using it to make a point about Superman in general, and his speed, though has at times been a factor in fights, hasn't really been portrayed as the main one.

What the frack? Where did I say anything about Superman one-shotting them? That was never my stance, stop putting words into my mouth. I was adressing the rather ridiculous mis-conception that both you and psycho seem to promote - speed hasn't been portrayed as the "main factor" for why Superman beats other top-tiers.

I said it was "everything else" that makes up the package of Superman that gives him the win. Strength is a key component, but the sole component? No, not in my opinion. Speed plays a role, but it's not the sole component either, especially in the times where Superman doesn't really display it in a overt manner.

You didn't. I asked if you did, you didn't answer the question. Superman being able to one, two, or even three shot has been a topic of debate in this thread since the claim came up several pages ago. Superman has plenty of factors aside from strength and speed which justify him beating other top tiers. I believe it's a combination of any given factor(s) which enables him to overcome in forum fights and in the comics themselves, not just one. *shrug*

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I said it was "everything else" that makes up the package of Superman that gives him the win. Strength is a key component, but the sole component? No, not in my opinion. Speed plays a role, but it's not the main component either, especially in the times where Superman doesn't really display it in a overt manner.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If they're in his strength class, and Superman's not significantly stronger than them to the point to clearly and effectively overpower them in a decisive manner, then it's not Superman's strength and strength alone that gives him the win. Perhaps I should have been clearer on that front. If so, my mistake.

Ah. Well all right then... sneer

Phil, Jake has conceeded, now let's leave it at that shall we. mmm

Originally posted by Philosophía
You quoted and agreed with psycho gundam who flat-out stated that "speed is the main factor". Back-tracking is not wise when the post is literaly just a few scrolls away.

I said 'pretty much' and further elaborated with my opinion of Superman's entire plethora of abilities and attributes - the total package of him as a character - is what enables him to beat characters that otherwise are peers to him when it comes to sheer strength. If I wasn't clear enough on that matter, that's my mistake. I make them from time to time. *shrug*

I think Superman beats WWH. I don't think strength is the only reason why.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah. Well all right then... sneer

Phil, Jake has conceeded, now let's leave it at that shall we. mmm

Fine.

You two are just precious.

If superman fights like a brick i'd pick WWH.

Originally posted by Philosophía
It's canon - but it's not admissable on the forum because a while ago Thor/Marvel fanboys were butthurt about it so they managed to convince the mods to ban it.

And yes, actually it is quite relevant, since it directly shows the opposite of what you're trying to push, as do many other comics. Superman's superior physical strength was what gave him the win, not "the main factor, speed".

as for being "butthurt" about it.... i don't give a fuuuuuck about it really

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up against the hulk, it's superman's speed that would be the best asset, not his strength against his in a slugfest situation.

The DC Marvel crossover was crap.

Venom crushing Superman.
Spiderman owning Superboy.
Wondy beating Jugs.

You can't pick and choose from the crossover. If you accept one scene from it, you have to accept all (which I don't mind since it would make Wolverine>Lobo🙂 )

Originally posted by carver9
The DC Marvel crossover was crap.

Venom crushing Superman.
Spiderman owning Superboy.
Wondy beating Jugs.

You can't pick and choose from the crossover. If you accept one scene from it, you have to accept all (which I don't mind since it would make Wolverine>Lobo🙂 )

those aren't all from the same crossover.

scans of the entire hulk vs superman fight?

Originally posted by Philosophía
uhuh

Fine.

Originally posted by -Pr-
those aren't all from the same crossover.

I agree, one side was voted upon and the other was writen by the company but both were done around the same time.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree, one side was voted upon and the other was writen by the company but both were done around the same time.

They were written by a writer working for the company. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
dc/marvel and jla/avengers IS utter bullshit, cause if you want to accept it, then you have to accept the other things that in them as well and other cross-overs. if superman triumphing over thor is kosher, then so is surfer absorbing the central power battery *shrug*

as for being "butthurt" about it.... i don't give a fuuuuuck about it really

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up against the hulk, it's superman's speed that would be the best asset, not his strength against his in a slugfest situation.

That fight was quite telling. As far as crossovers go, you don't lump them all together. Some crossovers are more serious and handled better than others. JLA/Avengers was actually one of the better ones and is apparently canon to DC and it was written by a guy who'd written decent potrayals for the characters in both companies, before and after the crossover.

Stuff like Wolvie vs Lobo were fan voted. Venom vs Supes isn't even something to mention seeing as both characters aren't in the same physical ball park.

Being canon to DC is irrelevant though.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that the fight that you are bringing up, Herc outright asked Hulk why he was holding back and also stated that Hulk could have killed him anytime he wanted. You do know this right?

Also, Hulk took much more than what Herc dished out in that fight. Let's not forget that he took a hit from Skrull Bolt that took a chunk out of the moon the size of Rhode Island. Let's not forget that he took hits from a pissed Sentry, Zom, Ironman in his extremis Armor... took Hell fire point blank from Ghost Rider... Human Torch went cmpletely Nova on him... unleashing power hotter than the core of the sun directly on top of Hulks head for a prolong amount of time... took punches from Zeus... etc, etc..

He held planet Sakaar together... you should know this since you are debating against this character.

I'm referring to Hulk's durability and not strength. So what does Hulk being able to kill Herc have to do with anything? He simply got rocked by Herc.

Please post the scans of the Bolt taking a chunk of the moon the size of Rhode Island. Herc's punches should be stronger than that anyway.

Sentry hasn't proven himself stronger than Herc on average. Sentry has his highs and lows depending on his mental condition. Before he fought Hullk he wasn't in the greatest of mental conditions.

The other attacks don't compare to Hercules. And why equate energy projection durability to blunt force durability. Are you kidding me?

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm referring to Hulk's durability and not strength. So what does Hulk being able to kill Herc have to do with anything? He simply got rocked by Herc.

Please post the scans of the Bolt taking a chunk of the moon the size of Rhode Island. Herc's punches should be stronger than that anyway.

Sentry hasn't proven himself stronger than Herc on average. Sentry has his highs and lows depending on his mental condition. Before he fought Hullk he wasn't in the greatest of mental conditions.

The other attacks don't compare to Hercules. And why equate energy projection durability to blunt force durability. Are you kidding me?

Hulks durability AND his strength is top notch. Hulk during WWH arc was a planetary threat that people had to prep against to take out and even then, the entire arc it was classified as him holding back.

WTF... Sentry strength isn't comparible to Herc... where are you getting that from... lol. Sentry held the cosmic cube for a long, extended amount of time. That feat alone almost trumps anything that Herc has done his entire career. Sentry snapping Terrax ax in half and also stalemating Genis proves his strength also. You REALLY don't know about these characters. Hell, during the Genis fight, it was stated that Sentry and Genis was unleashin enough power to split world in half and all of that happened against a holding back Sentry.

Hulk fought a Sentry that was out to kill and even told Hulk that he wasn't going to hold back against him.

Why would I post scans of something you should know about? Hulk was hit by an attacj which is physical in nature that took a big a** chunk out of the moon. The fight was so intense that people that was standing on Earth seen the display of power when they stared at the moon and they seen it as plain as day. Guess what, Hulk was standing there letting Skrull Bolt attack him and he actually asked for more and said "that's all you got".

Hulk wasn't dropped that entire arc except when they used nanites to take away from his durability.

Like I said, if we compare WWH and Supes durability, they are peers and again, its not safe to bring up Herc as an example since both Supes and Hulk has fought Herc and Supes ended up looking far worse than Hulk during the encounter.

So going by average showings... they are comparable. Going by strength, imo, Supes and Savage Hulk are peers and current Hulk aka WWH is superior physically BUT even though that's the case, I could still see Supes pulling some wins... that's not my argument. My argument is that you seriously don't know enough about Hulk to be arguing aganst him.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulks durability AND his strength is top notch. Hulk during WWH arc was a planetary threat that people had to prep against to take out and even then, the entire arc it was classified as him holding back.

WTF... Sentry strength isn't comparible to Herc... where are you getting that from... lol. Sentry held the cosmic cube for a long, extended amount of time. That feat alone almost trumps anything that Herc has done his entire career. Sentry snapping Terrax ax in half and also stalemating Genis proves his strength also. You REALLY don't know about these characters. Hell, during the Genis fight, it was stated that Sentry and Genis was unleashin enough power to split world in half and all of that happened against a holding back Sentry.

Hulk fought a Sentry that was out to kill and even told Hulk that he wasn't going to hold back against him.

Why would I post scans of something you should know about? Hulk was hit by an attacj which is physical in nature that took a big a** chunk out of the moon. The fight was so intense that people that was standing on Earth seen the display of power when they stared at the moon and they seen it as plain as day. Guess what, Hulk was standing there letting Skrull Bolt attack him and he actually asked for more and said "that's all you got".

Hulk wasn't dropped that entire arc except when they used nanites to take away from his durability.

Like I said, if we compare WWH and Supes durability, they are peers and again, its not safe to bring up Herc as an example since both Supes and Hulk has fought Herc and Supes ended up looking far worse than Hulk during the encounter.

So going by average showings... they are comparable. Going by strength, imo, Supes and Savage Hulk are peers and current Hulk aka WWH is superior physically BUT even though that's the case, I could still see Supes pulling some wins... that's not my argument. My argument is that you seriously don't know enough about Hulk to be arguing aganst him.

Sentry is variable. What does holding a cosmic cube prove?
It all depends on his state of mind, as the comics stated in canon.
Before Sentry took off to fight Hulk it was shown that he wasn't in the greatest state of minds. IMO, Terrax Sentry is the greatest Sentry shown.

Hulk's strength is variable. It is only his potential that makes him a peer to Superman. Not his average. But that is moot since Herc was shown to seriously rock Hulk and a normal Superman is much stronger than him. A bloodlusted or unleashed Superman is way above a normal Superman.