Originally posted by Starscream M
you don't think feral drawing blood with her claws is out of whack?
I don't care if -you think- it's a low showing. Juggernaut fluctuating like all characters wasn't part of the discussion. You asked me for a scene where his cut and/or bleeds. I posted such a scene.
Originally posted by Starscream M
lol...you've been trying to downplay juggy's durability for a coupla years now.
facepalm
I'm not trying to downplay anything. I don't have a vendetta against the character or something. I'm simply posting the conclusion I've come to, which is that Cain is not invulnerable without his force field. If I'm wrong, I'll concede. I don't have any actual stake in this matter. Cain is not one of my top favorite characters etc.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusyes you did. I appreciate it. but you also have to use judgment to remove PIS from discussions.
I don't care if -you think- it's a low showing. Juggernaut fluctuating wasn't part of your discussion. You asked me for a scene where his cut and/or bleeds. I posted such a scene.
you prob think it was PIS yourself, so dont be intellectually disingenuous and just pretend you have no opinion of that scan.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusoh believe me I know that.
Cain is not one of my top favorite characters etc.
I remember debating you re juggy vs thor and how you conducted incredible mental gymnastics to conclude that thor used a weaker godblast against cain and some such nonsense to always lowball cain.
He's not completely invulnerable. If you think otherwise, you're nothing but a troll.
Is he durable? Yes.
Is he one of the most durable Herald-level and below characters in Marvel? Yes.
But he's not f-ing invincible. That's been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt here. And besides which, if you think that Odin can't beat him into a pulp you're just being stubborn. Or if you think that the Living Tribunal or some other uber powerful being can't hurt him, you're just insane.
Originally posted by Starscream M
yes you did. I appreciate it. but you also have to use judgment to remove PIS from discussions.you prob think it was PIS yourself, so dont be intellectually disingenuous and just pretend you have no opinion of that scan.
My point stands.
Disingenuous? Whether or not I think it's a low showing doesn't matter. We were debating whether or not Cain can bleed. I posted evidence to show that he can. Just like previously we were debating whether Cain's invulnerability is attributed to his force field, and Cain fluctuating like all characters being irrelevant.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympusyeah so I guess Cain without his ff is less durable than thing or colossus 🙄
My point stands.Disingenuous? Whether or not I think it's a low showing doesn't matter. We were debating whether or not Cain can bleed. I posted evidence to show that he can. Just like previously we were debating whether Cain's invulnerability is attributed to his force field, and Cain fluctuating like all characters being irrelevant.
Still not getting it, are you? Damn.
Originally posted by Starscream M
oh believe me I know that.I remember debating you re juggy vs thor and how you conducted incredible mental gymnastics to conclude that thor used a weaker godblast against cain and some such nonsense to always lowball cain.
😂
Do you really want to play this up? I guarantee you, you'll come out looking worse than I will. Noticeably so.
And lawlz at the mental gymnastics bit. Thor did use a weaker God Blast. How is that even in question? The very same writer who wrote the Juggernaut scene, also wrote the Celestial scene a couple issues earlier, where Mjolnir shattered despite having it's fortifications doubled.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympushmmm, maybe because there is no such thing as gradations of godblast....it is something thorbags (most likely you) made up entirely on your own to 'rationalize' what you cannot accept.And lawlz at the mental gymnastics bit. Thor did use a weaker God Blast. How is that even in question?
Originally posted by Starscream M
one of? he's the most durable herald class character by far.
Debatable. Has he survived a blast equivalent to 50 supernovas? Superman has. (One supernova could destroy an entire solar system, not just a planet).
And with the shields he can make, Thor also has some amazing durability feats. Thor can make shields that have absorbed a blast that would have destroyed a 5th of the UNIVERSE.
And yes, I know that he used a shield, but what do you think Jugg's force fields are?
And that's not even counting guys higher than Herald, like Superboy Prime. He took a blast that destroyed an entire universe and survived.
So yes, he's ONE OF the most durable.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
[B]Here's a list I've compiled:
1.) Staggered by an impact with a wind tunnel fan.
2.) Hurt when Nightcrawler threw a torch in his face.
3.) Beaten down by War Hulk.
4.) Brought to his knees by the Professor Hulk.
5.) Had his eye plucked out by Shatterstar.
6.) Hurt by the Exemplar Weapon's Master.
7.) Owned by Onslaught.
8.) Screamed in pain from a set of kitchen knives dropped by Deadpool (Lawlz).
9.) Hurt by a blow from Green Scar (Post regaining of power).
10.) Owned by Captain Universe.
1.) He's a 900lb man, if he gets hit by something and isn't expecting it, he can be knocked around.
2.) This most definitely is a moment of PIS or just him blowing smoke.
In one of the Deadpool instances you reference, he has a vat of liquid hot metal dumped on him and and he is just mad. In the Thor fight, Firestar heats his armor up till it is glowing white hot. During his fight with Skaar, he is comfortably waiting in lava till his feet hit the ground and even has a laugh with Skaar.
3.)War Hulk never injured him, nor did he show any pain.
4.) Again, an unexpected shot and human reaction. He literally got up from in the next panel that wasn't part of Hulk's inner-mind-fight-thing.
5.) Shatterstar's swords were forged in a dimension of magic or whatever. In short, "MAGIC"!
6.) The Exemplars were meant to be able to hurt each other. Notice how Thor couldn't do anything to Juggernaut, but these other guys could?
7.) Onslaught never owned him on panel. Marvel has stated more than once that he was, "Magnetically hurled" across those states. Onslaught being a psychic being, he could have easily affected his mind off panel. As for the gem being ripped out, that could have taken place in the mind scape due to him literally running through M.C. Escher's Relativity painting prior to Onslaught picking him up, and the gem never being in his chest.
8.) He never screamed from pain from those. If you read the next page, he is standing in the knives and says, "Clever...but they don't hurt". Plus those knives hit him in the back on his ARMOR.
9.) Again just human reaction from being hit. Hulk was once slashed in the neck by Bone Claw Wolverine. Hulk grab his neck and made your basic comic noises and one that seemed like he was having trouble breathing. Then he looked down and felt his neck and noticed it WAS NOT CUT. He was unharmed, sustained no injury, yet he had a reaction.
10.) That Captain Universe's powers were meant to affect Juggernaut. Added to that, all he really did was mind blast him as shown in the actual comic.
Also Feral's claws did not draw blood. That is the artists way of showing the downward motion she is dragging her claws against his skin. If Wolverine has failed to scratch/pierce Cains skin, do you seriously think Feral can?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus😬 You just answered your own question.
No seriously Rage, what did I miss? He said the Belt was to fortify his hammer because of his Godblast so that it wouldn't shatter (it shattered anyway). It wasn't an amp to the Godblast :
Then when he gets ready to use the Godblast on the Juggernaut, he even says
So be it! Thou hast forced me to unleash the most terrifying Asgardian power of all! A power which once hurled back Galactus, the World-eater, and e'en gave pause to an almighty Celestial! I must call forth the god-force which flows within my veins -- and unite it with the irresistible power of mine enchanted Uru mallet! And the God of Thunder shall become one with the hammer supreme! Let the Juggernaut FALL!
Thor wasn't playing around. That was a full Godblast. Incredibly not didn't he "fall", he wasn't even hurt. The worst that happened was that his momentum was slowed and he got pushed back some. Before Juggernaut could begin to do anything more, the floor gave way. He was completely UNHURT by a blast that cracked Exitar's skull (which was harder than his exoskeleton) and drove away Galactus.
