Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
We've already seen that the hollow can affect your level of power in human form. Ichigo's reiatsu fluctuated from vastly weaker than Ulquiorra's, to stronger than his.
And weirdly enough, once Ichigo mastered that Tensa Zangetsu/Hollow Ichigo mix, his power increased.
That was because he was struggling not to let Hollow Ichigo out. You can see his eyes beginning to turn black I believe. It was fluctuating between Ichigos reiatsu to Hollow Ichigos reiatsu because Hollow Ichigo was about to gain control and tear shit up. That doesn't qualify as human form to me.
So the mask appearing at convenient times, and Hollow Ichigo weakening Bankai Ichigo, do not qualify as 'hollow is affecting human form'? no expressionEDIT: Meh, then there's also this I guess:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v13/c113/12.html
Considering the appearance of the mask when Ichigo did that again I would not qualify that as human form. Ichigo was actively using the hollows power as well as his own at that point.
Unless Tousen had a Hollow mask stuffed up his ass I'm not seeing the connection.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Something was affecting his base. Not just Hollow Ichigo. 😮
It wasn't FGT. It wasn't Hollow Ichigo by himself either, but he did play a part. T.Zangetsu + H2 Ichigo were affecting his human form and made it more powerful than Aizen.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That was because he was struggling not to let Hollow Ichigo out. You can see his eyes beginning to turn black I believe. It was fluctuating between Ichigos reiatsu to Hollow Ichigos reiatsu because Hollow Ichigo was about to gain control and tear shit up. That doesn't qualify as human form to me.Considering the appearance of the mask when Ichigo did that again I would not qualify that as human form. Ichigo was actively using the hollows power as well as his own at that point.
Unless Tousen had a Hollow mask stuffed up his ass I'm not seeing the connection.
They partly turn to black, but revert pretty much instantly after that.
Your proof that Ichigo's Reiatsu was switching between his and Hollow Ichigo's? Because as far as I recall, Ulquiorra made no mention of there being a Reiatsu resembling that of a Hollow's, and I'd wager he has much better sensory capabilities than Byakuya. It was Ichigo's reiatsu that was increasing beyond Ulquiorra's, then decreasing, and vice versa.
Qualifies as human form for me considering there was no transformation whatsoever.
Pray tell, how was Ichigo 'actively using hollow's power' against Kenpachi when there was no hint of a transformation, and he could not, at will, use said power until the Arrancar arc?
So we disregard the sudden appearances of Ichigo's Hollow Mask in his human form just because you don't think it qualifies as a hollow affecting the human form? Good to know.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
It wasn't FGT. It wasn't Hollow Ichigo by himself either, but he did play a part. T.Zangetsu + H2 Ichigo were affecting his human form and made it more powerful than Aizen.
But when Ichigo defeated H Ichiggo, he merely got the ability to go Visord. Are you suggesting that Tosen also defeated his Hollow in a similar manner that Ichigo beat Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo fused? Because he would have been nigh unstoppable for a bit of time.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I love how my troll comment can start a debate.I'm so cool.
What's ironic is that it doesn't really matter because Kenpachi didn't even beat Tosen do to superior speed. So it's really all moot. ^^
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
But when Ichigo defeated H Ichiggo, he merely got the ability to go Visord. Are you suggesting that Tosen also defeated his Hollow in a similar manner that Ichigo beat Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo fused? Because he would have been nigh unstoppable for a bit of time.
He could have, though I have no proof.
Ichigo however, beat Tensa Zangetsu merged with H2 Hollow Ichigo using Bankai (the same one that at arguably less than half of his power, pwned an Ulquiorra at his strongest), so yeah, it's no wonder that Ichigo was so overpowered.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Kenpachi caught a Cero in his hand and threw it.His hand is obviously invulnerable.
Kenpachi is also obviously faster than Byakuya, Kenpachi>Tousen>Grimmjow>Bankai Ichigo>Byakuya.
Obviously.
Noitra cut kenpachi, so byakuya can do it. So if noitra can cut him, byakuya could do it, and byakuya is faster than noitra, much faster.
and if i recall correctly shikai ichigo beat kenpachi.
So bankai ichigo>kenpachi
I hope this post was the one you were referring to when you said you were trolling.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They partly turn to black, but revert pretty much instantly after that.
Your proof that Ichigo's Reiatsu was switching between his and Hollow Ichigo's? Because as far as I recall, Ulquiorra made no mention of there being a Reiatsu resembling that of a Hollow's, and I'd wager he has much better sensory capabilities than Byakuya. It was Ichigo's reiatsu that was increasing beyond Ulquiorra's, then decreasing, and vice versa.
Qualifies as human form for me considering there was no transformation whatsoever.Pray tell, how was Ichigo 'actively using hollow's power' against Kenpachi when there was no hint of a transformation, and he could not, at will, use said power until the Arrancar arc?
So we disregard the sudden appearances of Ichigo's Hollow Mask in his human form just because you don't think it qualifies as a hollow affecting the human form? Good to know.
During the entire sequence when Ichigo is getting beaten up he's struggling to surpress the Hollow, to the point that he can't even defend himself or Orihime. What, do you think that its a coincidence that Ulq mentions that Ichigo's reiatsu is surpassing his own only when the Hollow is trying to break out but before then thought or him as no threat at all? Given that we know that the Hollow is far stronger to Ichigo? You can see specifically that Ulq mentions in that first link that the fluctuations increased when the Hollow tried to brake out. What else would cause Ichigo's spower to spike that way, given that we know the Hollow powers massively boost his own? And we know Hollow Ichigo is stronger than Ulq, and Ulq mentions that at his highest Ichigo's spiritual pressure is above his own. He was only not transforming because he was actively fighting against it. You can see his eyes turning black, a specific sign that hes starting to transform into Hollow mode.
Seriously, what do you thinks happening in that scene? Ichigos pulling raw power out of his ass? Ichigo's someone accessing the hollows power and combining it with his own, while actively fighting against doing that? I'm actually asking you.
Er, your own link? http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v13/c113/12.html
His reiatsu forms a hollow mask and then afterwards we see that at the time Ichigo had formed a hollow mask. Its just that it wasn't on his face. You could argue that Ichigo was only using Zangetsus power in that fight but we're later informed that the Hllow is a part of Zangetsu so it makes complete sense that Ichigo was accessing the Hollows power in that fight. Plus its pretty obvious that Ichigo was using the Hollows power if only because he beat Kenpachi while in Shikai, something he could never do using his own power.