Best all around Marvel speedster...

Originally posted by inimalist
manip? probably turning himself into light ala the Yondu scan I posted

I suppose thats not entirely impressive, though I've not seen Thor transform himself into energy...

It depends. I know I've read Starhawk describing himself as a living Star etc. but if he actually converted his physical being into light instead of simply changing states like the Living Laser, then it would be impressive. Unfortunately from what I've read, it would probably be the latter instead of the former.

I don't think he has. On the other hand, using Mjolnir Thor has transmuted himself and manipulated other beings. His also transported himself through lightning and has generated it from every part of his body if that has any value.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It depends. I know I've read Starhawk describing himself as a living Star etc. but if he actually converted his physical being into light instead of simply changing states like the Living Laser, then it would be impressive.

I don't understand what the difference would be?

also, check my edit

Originally posted by inimalist
In terms of light beams, they are stronger than Thor is with Mjolnir (or at least can break a shield that Thor couldn't):

What? Read it again. At best you can say brute strength would be ineffective against such a field and one would need energy based powers but even then....

Originally posted by inimalist
or he can make crude constructs from light (not on par with Aleta, but still decent):

however, they explain the last one as being because he can tap into Aleta's powers, and since they are no longer combined, it is unlikely he still has the constructs ability /shrug

They said the same about Thor, but he has survived similar beatings against Hollywood/etc, though his strength specifically is probably not as strong as it is when he can channel Aleta. The strongest version of starhawk though would have constructs and strength, just not current, though, that may have changed in the recent GotG, where he seems to be present in all timelines [blah blah weird mystic/time stuff...]

Creating constructs would be a more impressive feat of light manipulation than what Thor has done.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Read it again. At best you can say brute strength would be ineffective against such a field and one would need energy based powers but even then....

ya, he could break a shield that Thor couldn't...

maybe what I said was confusing?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Creating constructs would be a more impressive feat of light manipulation than what Thor has done.

ok

Originally posted by inimalist
I don't understand what the difference would be?

also, check my edit

You don't?

Changing states naturally and using energy manipulation to actual change the composition of your body are very different things. Particularly when were discussing who has the superior manipulation capabilities.

Living Laser can turn himself into light but if Surfer zapped someone on the street and changed their body into light, the latter would be more impressive in terms of energy manipulation. At the very least externally.

Originally posted by inimalist
ya, he could break a shield that Thor couldn't...

maybe what I said was confusing?

According to Starhawk. Let's say that brute strength conclusively couldn't break the shield and you needed energy based powers, what's to say a blast from Mjolnir or a lightning bolt couldn't easily accomplish the same result?

Phrasing it as Thor couldn't makes it seem like it was outside of his capabilities. As long as you're not implying that, then I don't really care.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You don't?

Changing states naturally and using energy manipulation to actual change the composition of your body are very different things. Particularly when were discussing who has the superior manipulation capabilities.

Living Laser can turn himself into light but if Surfer zapped someone on the street and changed their body into light, the latter would be more impressive. At the very least externally.

ok, I see what you are saying. Because Starhawk could be living light, its not the same for him to change between the forms as it would be for him to change something that is actually another form of matter into light

that said, I don't think it is ever stated unequivically that Starhawk is living light, and he certainly had a natural birth before the Hawk God gave him his powers

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
According to Starhawk. Let's say that brute strength conclusively couldn't break the shield and you needed energy based powers, what's to say a blast from Mjolnir or a lightning bolt couldn't easily accomplish the same result?

OH, ok, my bad.

No, I suppose I wasn't trying to insinuate that some magic godblast from Thor couldn't take it out

EDIT: I suppose given his energy manip, thor might have just poked a hole through it the same way he did Collector's pocket universe /idk

Originally posted by inimalist
ok, I see what you are saying. Because Starhawk could be living light, its not the same for him to change between the forms as it would be for him to change something that is actually another form of matter into light

that said, I don't think it is ever stated unequivically that Starhawk is living light, and he certainly had a natural birth before the Hawk God gave him his powers

Bingo. Starhawk doesn't seem to be less limited to the physical plain in comparison to other beings from what I've seen.

So I'm guessing other hints have been given akin to his comments about being a living Star? I know that, but from what I remember, he underwent a real metamorphosis when he and Aleta reawakened the Hawk God.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bingo. Starhawk doesn't seem to be less limited to the physical plain in comparison to other beings from what I've seen.

So I'm guessing other hints have been given akin to his comments about being a living Star? I know that, but from what I remember, he underwent a real metamorphosis when he and Aleta reawakened the Hawk God.

short of rereading the entire run, my assumption is that it is open to speculation

I certainly wouldn't argue he isn't living light, I just don't think an issue ever layed it out so plainly.

and ya, his transformation from the Hawk God was tremendous. He and Aleta were merged into the same being for a while

Originally posted by inimalist
OH, ok, my bad.

No, I suppose I wasn't trying to insinuate that some magic godblast from Thor couldn't take it out

EDIT: I suppose given his energy manip, thor might have just poked a hole through it the same way he did Collector's pocket universe /idk

As long as you don't think that was prove Starhawk's power > Thor's power or whatever, I'm fine with it. The way you phrased it just made it seem like it was the case.

Meh, that was the writer just having Thor pull shit out of his ass because his a deity. I like that this aspect has been played up more recently. Apparently as long as there are still worshipers of Thor out there, he can't actually die because he lives on inside of them -according to Chaos War- and prayers have an effect on him. I like it. Separates Thor from regular heroes.

Wonder how long it will take for Pak to copy and paste it into his Hercules work.

Originally posted by inimalist
short of rereading the entire run, my assumption is that it is open to speculation

I certainly wouldn't argue he isn't living light, I just don't think an issue ever layed it out so plainly.

and ya, his transformation from the Hawk God was tremendous. He and Aleta were merged into the same being for a while

Fair enough I guess.

Wasn't his mother Kismet?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As long as you don't think that was prove Starhawk's power > Thor's power or whatever, I'm fine with it. The way you phrased it just made it seem like it was the case.

no, and if I were to say something like that, it would be like I said earlier, the only places where Starhawk is going to be better than Thor are in very limited and specific contexts, like, how fast he can hit FTL, or constructs, or whatever

Thor would take 7-8/10 for sure, maybe more, against Starhawk, though they would be good fights.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Meh, that was the writer just having Thor pull shit out of his ass because his a deity. I like that this aspect has been played up more recently. Apparently as long as there are still worshipers of Thor out there, he can't actually die because he lives on inside of them -according to Chaos War- and prayers have an effect on him. I like it. Separates Thor from regular heroes.

I have always liked that aspect of Thor more than just him bashing stuff with strength. I'd actually prefer to see him played up as a mystic God rather than a brick. Its why I've really enjoyed Astonishing Thor

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wonder how long it will take for Pak to copy and paste it into his Hercules work.

I think the only Pak thing I've read was the first issue of his new Surfer mini, and I was less than impressed. Should I be looking into this Herc work?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fair enough I guess.

Wasn't his mother Kismet?

and his father was Quasar

Originally posted by inimalist
no, and if I were to say something like that, it would be like I said earlier, the only places where Starhawk is going to be better than Thor are in very limited and specific contexts, like, how fast he can hit FTL, or constructs, or whatever

Fair enough.

Originally posted by inimalist
Thor would take 7-8/10 for sure, maybe more, against Starhawk, though they would be good fights.

I wouldn't go higher than that personally.

Originally posted by inimalist
I have always liked that aspect of Thor more than just him bashing stuff with strength. I'd actually prefer to see him played up as a mystic God rather than a brick. Its why I've really enjoyed Astonishing Thor

Yea, me too. It's a shame his a brick 95% of the time when his shown the potential to be much more.

The next issue of Astonishing Thor is going to be Ego vs. Alter Ego with Thor stuck in the middle. Should be pretty epic. Hopefully it sticks to the current quality.

Originally posted by inimalist
I think the only Pak thing I've read was the first issue of his new Surfer mini, and I was less than impressed. Should I be looking into this Herc work?

and his father was Quasar

Pak's best work was the previous Incredible Hercules run but if you're looking for an Astonishing Thor feel, don't bother. It's more of a humorous book with Hercules being a womanizing goofball. I really enjoyed it.

I think Chaos War made it clear that Pak can't handle large mystical stuff.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, me too. It's a shame his a brick 95% of the time when his shown the potential to be much more.

The next issue of Astonishing Thor is going to be Ego vs. Alter Ego with Thor stuck in the middle. Should be pretty epic. Hopefully it sticks to the current quality.

to be honest, I'm amazed by how much I'm enjoying the book. Thor was always a character that I really had no interest in, but I think thats because I often just got the impression he was just a big guy with a hammer. Astonishing is the first real "Thor" book I've read (I think I gave vikings a chance... and didn't hate it iirc), so there is that, lol

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Pak's best work was the previous Incredible Hercules run but if you're looking for an Astonishing Thor feel, don't bother. It's more of a humorous book with Hercules being a womanizing goofball. I really enjoyed it.

I'll check it out. I'm not overly familiar with Herc, so a lighthearted version wont offend any of my comic-nerd sensibilities, lol!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Chaos War made it clear that Pak can't handle large mystical stuff.

This scan by itself made me never want to read a Pak book again:

I know this is crazy nit-picking, but seriously, dopamine and norepinephrine don't do anything in the blood stream, they are neurotransmitters, they affect the brain at the synapse...

Like, how hard is it to look that up? hell, maybe I should be more upset at the editor, but seriously? Pak is just trying to name drop concepts he couldn't care to spend 5 seconds to understand, trying to make Surfer look all the more bad ass, and it made me put down the book... It seems so sloppy, like he didn't even care what he was writing, which I feel says a lot about how seriously he is taking to book in general

I've sort of actively avoided Chaos War, not for Pak, but because the last few events have really disappointed me. Anything there worth reading?

Originally posted by inimalist
to be honest, I'm amazed by how much I'm enjoying the book. Thor was always a character that I really had no interest in, but I think thats because I often just got the impression he was just a big guy with a hammer. Astonishing is the first real "Thor" book I've read (I think I gave vikings a chance... and didn't hate it iirc), so there is that, lol

Well, the thing is, there are many directions one can go with Thor. I'd break them down to three major takes:
1) The cosmic scene similar to Astonishing Thor.
2) The more Viking-esque theme where you'll have Thor riding horses, fighting dragons and witches etc.
3) And the in-between where Asgard is just as advanced in terms of technology as it is with magic similar to Kirby.

Writers can flip and flop between these so much that it's hard for a casual reader to get into Thor but trust me when I say Thor's much more than a big guy with a hammer no matter the direction.

I think you might enjoy the Thor Chaos War mini. It's definitely better than the main event and similar in tone to Astonishing Thor. Not as good in terms of writing however but whatever.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'll check it out. I'm not overly familiar with Herc, so a lighthearted version wont offend any of my comic-nerd sensibilities, lol!

Be careful. Near the end it use to flip flop between a solo Cho book and a solo Hercules book. It started to get bad at that point.

Pick up the Thorcules vs. HercuThor arc. It was great and I think you'd enjoy it.

Originally posted by inimalist
This scan by itself made me never want to read a Pak book again:

I know this is crazy nit-picking, but seriously, dopamine and norepinephrine don't do anything in the blood stream, they are neurotransmitters, they affect the brain at the synapse...

Like, how hard is it to look that up? hell, maybe I should be more upset at the editor, but seriously? Pak is just trying to name drop concepts he couldn't care to spend 5 seconds to understand, trying to make Surfer look all the more bad ass, and it made me put down the book... It seems so sloppy, like he didn't even care what he was writing, which I feel says a lot about how seriously he is taking to book in general

I've sort of actively avoided Chaos War, not for Pak, but because the last few events have really disappointed me. Anything there worth reading?

Haha yea. It's funny when writers name drop words without having any clue what they mean just so make things seem more epic.

The mini so far really has been underwhelming.

Events have been shit. Well, I kind of have to read them. Siege and now Fear Itself have been centered heavily around Asgardians.

I remember as a kid the first Thor book I ever read was Thor 387-389 which Iirc was early on during Defalco's run. I was blown away. From there I backtracked to Simonson and then Gruenwald and Macchio. Loved it. There's nothing like the feeling of being a kid and discovering all of that stuff for the very first time lol!

Astonishing is giving me that feeling again. The opening act of Fear also has my juices going.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Runner, Makkari, and Hermes from what I've seen. Then the Superman analogues like Hyperion, Gladiator, and Sentry. After that, I'd say it's beings like Surfer and Thor who have crazy travel speed, some high end reaction feats, but aren't speedsters in the same sense as those above.

Flight speed.

I would have Nova a good amount above Thor..
He's always been portrayed as a character that used speed as one of his main abilities when it comes to his power set. Novas have numerous speed feats that should easily put him in at least the 2nd tier...

Ummm...rage....Makkari isn't all that fast. Sentry is faster. So is surfer and glads.

Runner.