Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I figure the stance they are taking is that Asgardians are a completely different species as varied and diverse as Humanity... which I don't really have a problem with, but I think it will be confusing if they ever introduce any of the other Pantheons.
Originally posted by roughrider
First of all, it's Heimdall, not Hiemdall. If you're going to complain about a character's specifics, identify him right.Secondly, have you been asleep for the past year and a half? This debate has gone on since Idris Elba was cast in late fall of 2009. I have followed the debate on multiple boards, and there's virtually nothing left to be said at this point. The movie opens in less than four weeks.
Thirdly, Asgardians aren't from Earth or Scandinavia; just the select ones they have brought to Asgard over millenia are. So they don't have to racially look all caucasian.
Jesus Christ...
Y'know if you're going to lecture someone about the misspelling of a Nordic name, then the very LEAST you could do is keep your reading comprehension up to task concerning the thread you're replying in you damned helmet-child.
First off, perhaps you can tell me what part of my posts thus far have been part of a complaint?
Oh that's right I HAVEN'T complained about anything, I've just brought attention to fact that OTHERS did/are.
Second--wai-what?! Just because I didn't know about the controversy this casting has caused you've somehow concluded I've been asleep for the last year? Oh yes, because anyone who isn't acutely aware of any and all movie news concerning the God of Thunder must be some bumbling fool... 🙄 Good lord, I could understand if I was dumbfounded about last month's tsunami in Japan, but this? Really... ?
As shocking as it may be to you, there are those of us on the forum who are not raging Thor fanboys like some others... apparently are. And as such, there are those of us who futhermore are not movie-buffs or well updated on movie news, yes, in SPITE of being part of a community forum that's ironically enough on a movie site.
The truth is that outside of a few trailers, toys, and one or two movie posters, I haven't been keenly up to date on Thor movie news at all... for some reason I guess politics, bills, and environmental issues took precedence in my Thor-less state of bafoonery 🙄 ... Hell, I'm BARELY familiar with up to date Wolverine movie news if that tells you anything about how much research I do on all things concerning Marvel Studios. 😐
The only reason that I even found out about this proposed boycott of the film was because I was trying to find good reference pics of current Heimdall (There, spelled it right for you that time so you don't have to wet the Thor bed sheets out of frustration) so I could sculpt him for a project.
And again... Most fictional characters are not referenced specifically in skin tone... Heimdall (Spelled it right again! Are you salivating yet?) is.
Originally posted by roughrider
I also know there is a Thor movie thread in here to talk about about things related to the film. The fact you choose to open a topic like this up in a seperate thread, just to talk about the race of the actor playing Heimdall...
...Well, there's something to that, isn't there?
Again it comes down to reading the full scope of what's been written here.
It's not JUST A THREAD ABOUT HEIMDALL EITHER. 😐
And, what do you mean "there's something to that"? 🤨 It's not as if my invitation to the opinions of other members about this issue is some sort of underhanded attempt to enforce my own opinions or "complaints" as you put it... Opinions which I would think were made pretty clear when I agreed with Deadline's post.... something I do once in a blue moon.
Reading. Comprehension. Try it out...
I hope you don't engage in such reckless conclusion jumping in ALL aspects of your life.
Originally posted by Don Corleone
It is annoying when they cant even get a character right. IMO , characters should come as close as possible to what they are like in comics. Unless they're going with a black Hiemdall for comics.
Ultimate Universe Heimdall hasn't been created yet. The movies have taken more cues from the Ultimate Universe then 616.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Idris Elba is the best actor in the United Kingdom. I am thrilled.And given the tripe that the Wonder Women TV show is, I'd welcome Beyonce at this point.
Also Emma Frost should be black. In fact that's the way they should have gone in the Ultimate Universe.
Also, didn't they cast a chinese guy as one of the Warriors Three? Why is Heimdall getting all the flak?
BTW Marvel Asgardians and Norse mythology are very, very different. For one Thor is blonde. Marvel are obviously anti-ginger.
You really think Emma should be black? Why, out of curiosity? Unless that's sarcasm.
Originally posted by -Pr-
You really think Emma should be black? Why, out of curiosity? Unless that's sarcasm.
I like 616 Emma, but I also think she could work as a black person as well. Especially after the Astrid Bloom thing. I think that just adds to that bit in Classic X-Men where she says she prefers it when people underestimate her.
Also even though she's too old, Vannessa Williams would have been able to pull off a better Emma Frost then January Jones. And I think January Jones looks like a great Emma Frost...but I'm pretty sure her acting and accent is going to ruin it.
If they went that way in the Ultimate Universe I wouldn't have minded. There's also the whole White Queen codename to play off on.
And at the end of the day, it's I think Emma's personality that makes her. Most comic book women are drawn the same but what separates her from the rest IMO is her personality. Without it he'd be another blonde.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I like 616 Emma, but I also think she could work as a black person as well. Especially after the Astrid Bloom thing. I think that just adds to that bit in Classic X-Men where she says she prefers it when people underestimate her.Also even though she's too old, Vannessa Williams would have been able to pull off a better Emma Frost then January Jones. And I think January Jones looks like a great Emma Frost...but I'm pretty sure her acting and accent is going to ruin it.
If they went that way in the Ultimate Universe I wouldn't have minded. There's also the whole White Queen codename to play off on.
And at the end of the day, it's I think Emma's personality that makes her. Most comic book women are drawn the same but what separates her from the rest IMO is her personality. Without it he'd be another blonde.
Those reasons are as good as any, I suppose, and I agree to a point.
Far as Heimdall goes, I'm just not sure he matters enough as a character for it to be an issue, in terms of popularity and focus.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Those reasons are as good as any, I suppose, and I agree to a point.Far as Heimdall goes, I'm just not sure he matters enough as a character for it to be an issue, in terms of popularity and focus.
Lol, it's probably Greg Lands fault. All his women look the same to me.
He was so far off my radar that I didn't care. Maybe this controversy might boost other writers using him. I'd rather him then Volstagg. Volstagg pisses me off.
Originally posted by jinzin
Usually that might be the case, but I don't think pigmentation is a bullet point to godly representations for most dieties... Hiemdall's a different story.
No Hemidall isn't any different just because hes described that way doesn't mean he has to be restricted to that form, that applies to all gods. See my post below.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No they didn't. Norse Gods were very much treated as physical beings to the point they had to consume Golden Apples to maintain their longevity.
This is a really silly argument. Just because they were shown to have physical characteristics doesn't mean that they didn't transcend physical form. Norse lore has numerous examples of gods shape shifting and having magical powers, not only that the Norse people believed in reincarnation. If reincarnation isn't an example of transendence I don't know what is. Hell we even have an example of a jotun reincarnating as a human, or do you want to get into a neurotic debate about the meaning of transedence? Ok fine they didn't transcend their physical forms but theres nothing in Norse Lore that indicates that they should be restricted to being white. It's like trying to argue that Loki should never be represented as a Hyena because hes never specifically turned into one.....I hope you see were I'm going with that.
Not to mention the example you gave is absurd. It's pretty obvious that the gods were supernatural magical beings and that the apples were supernatural. So you're arguing that supernatural beings eating supernatural apples can't be black and can't transcend their physical form when the very defintion of magic and supernatural is transcendence? Right. 🤨
Originally posted by Omega Vision
At the very least there is an expectation that a Norse God should be white. They're reflections of the people who dreamed them up.
Stating the obvious, not to mention that gods in all cultures are actually metaphors and symbolic. Let me give you an example, Thor maybe described as being a tall strong man with red hair but he's also a god that means hes supposed to be a representation of a concept and his physical form is just a way of describing that.
If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.
Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?
Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore. Considering you have at least one example of a person reincarnating as a different race, reincarnation was not restricted to humans. The Finns who were a different ethic group to the Viking also influenced Norse Lore. Not to mention that the Vikings weren't xenophobic.
Were not talking about comics were talking about a religon that people practice today and even some black people (very rare). I'm merely suggesting that maybe due to the nature of the subject that you should think first before making silly, ignorant arguments even then it wouldn't be bad if you weren't so arrogant. I don't mind people having an opinion but I think you should leave obnxious behavior for the comic vs forum.
Originally posted by jinzin
There's a Thor movie general discussion thread yes... This isn't a general discussion.Again it comes down to reading the full scope of what's been written here.
It's not JUST A THREAD ABOUT HEIMDALL EITHER. 😐
And, what do you mean "there's something to that"? 🤨 It's not as if my invitation to the opinions of other members about this issue is some sort of underhanded attempt to enforce my own opinions or "complaints" as you put it... Opinions which I would think were made pretty clear when I agreed with Deadline's post.... something I do once in a blue moon.Reading. Comprehension. Try it out...
I hope you don't engage in such reckless conclusion jumping in ALL aspects of your life.
This is the thread you're started. To accuse others of reckless conclusion jumping considering the subject here... 🙄
Originally posted by Deadline
If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?
I think the only way you could really associate those characters with those things is if you didn't have a good grasp on how nuclear power works, what computing means, or the difference between lyric and song.
It was only like 30% joke. I could see the rapping one, although I would face palm hard at that explanation.
But computing and computers have nothing to do with knowledge or wisdom.
And nuclear power... I don't know. The electricity created from nuclear power plants is made by water turbines. It would be kind of like if you associated a deity of love and sexuality with a sheep farm.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sorry man I think he's right, you're overeacting. 😬
You go over to Thor at IMDB, there's been over a dozen different threads dedicated to this casting decision the past year and a half. To have yet another one here right when the movie is on the verge of release - despite the threads he could have posted in if he wanted to discuss this - it's irritating that someone continues to make this an issue at this late stage.
While jinzin may not be trying to be a flamer like so many of those idiots over at IMDB, I'm at the stage where I've simply had enough of this subject (Idris Elba) and hearing things like 'Why can't they be more faithful about this, that blah blah whine whine....' even though this is Marvel Studios and it's their money & approval behind it all. It's done; finished.
The movie opens in a few weeks; we will finally see how well it all works then.
Not really bothered by it. I was annoyed originally, particularly because Sif and Heimdall are siblings, but it's nothing that will ruin the movie for me or anything.
I however would be annoyed if they cast Idris over a white dude to add some diversity. Then I'd be ticked off to an extent. Especially since Heimdall plays a rather large role in the movie.