Hiemdall's a black dude?

Originally posted by Deadline
This is a really silly argument. Just because they were shown to have physical characteristics doesn't mean that they didn't transcend physical form.

Stating the obvious, not to mention that gods in all cultures are actually metaphors and symbolic. Let me give you an example, Thor maybe described as being a tall strong man with red hair but he's also a god that means hes supposed to be a representation of a concept and his physical form is just a way of describing that.

If Thor can't be black then you might as well argue that Thor shouldn't have anything to do with nuclear power. Why not? Thor is the god of power. He lives in Thrudrheim (which means power home) and has a daughter called power. Well shit there were no nuclear power stations in Viking times therefore it makes no sense for a modern heathen to associate Thor with any other power source apart from fire and lightning. Hell considering that his grandmother has dark skin I could even argue that a modern interpretation could be of a black Thor. Hell I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that sometimes The Vikings associated the colour black with power.

Lets not stop there lets not associate Odin with computing. Hey no computers during the Viking Age so clearly we shouldn't do that, hell Odin is the god of wisdom and knowledge. Oh Odin is the god of poetry as well I'm not going to associate him with rapping...and I won't even dear build a shrine to Odin and have him wearing a suit. Obvoulsy no god ever wore suits in Norse lore so therefore it completely contradicts Norse Lore. Getting the point?

Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore.

I just find some of this stuff slightly annoying just because of the PC factor involved (that's Political Correctness not Pre-Crisis). It might have something to do with Brannagh as well. These days in the UK they seem to almost live in cringing fear of offending anyone by not being totally inclusive in everything, even where it makes little sense e.g. the multicultural cast of Merlin, the recent controversy over suspension of a tv producer for not including black cast members in a white area village etc. I don't think I have ever seen a country even close to the UK in how much political correctness overrules factual correctness and how much it is drilled into people on a daily basis almost like the thought police.

Still Elba is an OK actor and it's probably not a big deal given Heimdall is a small part anyway. I'd rather see characters portrayed accurately in this respect (whether it's Heimdall, Fury, or War Machine). I wouldn't want a white actor playing Blade or Rhodey, and as much as I like Samuel L. Jackson in just about anything I don't like black Nick Fury at all. But I guess sometimes this kind of casting can work, like with Kingpin in Daredevil.

It's certainly not going to stop me watching or enjoying the film if it's any good.

I think it is a ridiculous casting choice.
The people who created the Norse Mythology were white.
It was long before the modern age of multiculturalism and global world we live in now.
It doesn't matter that he is a supporting character only.
Why not make Odin black and make Thor a woman too while they at it.
They could easily have made the main human characters black or chinese or hispanic.
Asgard should be white 😛
It doesn't bother me enough to not watch it, but I not gonna pretend I not pissed off.

Originally posted by basilisk
, and as much as I like Samuel L. Jackson in just about anything I don't like black Nick Fury at all. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury

Originally posted by basilisk

It directly contradicts it given that he was explicitly described as a fair-skinned white in Norse lore, whiter than the rest.

How is this relevant? Marvel don't give a crap about Norse Lore. Thor is a blonde in the MU.

-"The Serpent, the serpent is coming!!"
-"The world tree."
-"Beta Ray Bill".

This is Marvel Thor. They're two different beings.

Ultimate Heimdall hasn't been created yet. Just wait and see when he is. This is pretty much an open and shut case.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
How is this relevant? Marvel don't give a crap about Norse Lore. Thor is a blonde in the MU.

theres nothing in Norse Lore that indicates that they should be restricted to being white...
...Obvoulsy the Norse gods were white because the Viking were white but the Norse gods being black does not contradict Norse Lore.

Originally posted by GRIMNIR
I think it is a ridiculous casting choice.
The people who created the Norse Mythology were white.
It was long before the modern age of multiculturalism and global world we live in now.
It doesn't matter that he is a supporting character only.
Why not make Odin black and make Thor a woman too while they at it.
They could easily have made the main human characters black or chinese or hispanic.
Asgard should be white 😛
It doesn't bother me enough to not watch it, but I not gonna pretend I not pissed off.

Guess what - there is a greater chance that Jesus Christ was Black or Middle Eastern looking then he was Caucasian. But that didn't stop nearly two thousand years of Catholic Church propaganda paintings showing him as a blue eyed, fair skinned man with light brown hair. So MAYBE the writers & artists of Norse mythology may have had their own slants of how the Gods appeared to mortals. 😉 I mean, a white-looking God like Loki had offspring that were monsters, like the giant wolf Fenris and the world serpent of Midgard, if you believe the myths. Why didn't he just have some pasty white children - because he was a being of magic is a big reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0FwpRfmrsU

I'm not even sure how you can have a slant on how Norse gods looked.

I think this is a case of making the movie work, that's all. I believe that instead of making it like the Asgardians are a supreme otherworldly myhtical race, which is fantastical to DC Comics proportions, they want to have as Earth-based as possible. Hence the "ancestors called it magic, you call it science" explanation. I think what we'll be given here is the explanation that we are ALL descendants of the Asgardians, and they watch over us now. That's why there's a black guy, as Asian guy, and heck, there may be a brown guy up there. They want all the colors and races of the world represented to show us where WE came from. That is the only way to tie Thor's fantasy comics reality to the Iron Man/Hulk military/science reality. Captain America will have no problem fitting in with that, Thor was the only one that would have that problem. I think the way they're doing it is great.

Then again, i could be way off, and maybe they wanted to cast a black guy as Heimdall for no apparent reason. In that case, it's still no big deal.

P.E.A.C.E.

Originally posted by basilisk
But really all those arguments are just as silly as any of the previous ones. You're going way out with this stuff - a lot of these things are just cultural or scientific advances that gods could easily pick up if they wanted to keep up to date and had an interest in earthly affairs. Changing a white person to a black person is a very different thing.

It directly contradicts it given that he was explicitly described as a fair-skinned white in Norse lore, whiter than the rest.

Your completely missing the point and selectively analysing certain statements without seeing the context.

Originally posted by Deadline
Your completely missing the point and selectively analysing certain statements without seeing the context.

In any case obviously people have different opinions and there is no right or wrong with that. But it would be interesting to see what people thought if a Black Panther movie was made as follows:
Black Panther: Jet Li
Storm: Aishwarya Rai
Leader of the Wakandan Royal Guard/Security: Jason Statham
Wakandan Chief Scientist: Jeff Goldblum
Rest of the Wakandans - black cast

Then imagine having the director make some statements that it wasn't important to have actors of African descent playing Panther & Storm etc as long as the actors were interesting and right for the characters. The 'Black' part of the Panther's title simply refers to the totem and costume, and there is no real contradiction involved. He could further add that as asians, whites, & indians had been present in Africa for many centuries, and in some cases more than a thousand years, it was not even unrealistic to have this multicultural Wakanda. And after all Wakanda & BP are just part of a modern mythology that can be reinterpreted, just like Norse myth in Thor so people can't complain.

I really wonder if people would defend this viewpoint in the same way.

Edit: actually the more I think about it the above cast might work. Except the Jeff Goldblum part.

Originally posted by basilisk
I just don't think that comparing cultural/scientific artifacts which can be changed, adopted, and adapted, to portraying someone who is white as black makes any sense. I think it's pretty black and white.

Yea I know because gods can't change appearance. 😱 Anyway I'm quite sure you're messing with me.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I'm not even sure how you can have a slant on how Norse gods looked.

The people who spun the tales of the Norse Gods have to give some description of what they looked like. Like the story of Þjálfi and Röskva, who were farm children that Thor brought from Earth to be his servants in Asgard. So that involved the Gods being seen by mortals.

Marvel comics adapted parts of this story into creating the character of Thialfi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thialfi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thialfi_%28Marvel_Comics%29

^ I don't know I pretty much explained why the gods being black doesn't contradict Norse lore, people are either trolling or racist.

Originally posted by roughrider
The people who spun the tales of the Norse Gods have to give some description of what they looked like. Like the story of Þjálfi and Röskva, who were farm children that Thor brought from Earth to be his servants in Asgard. So that involved the Gods being seen by mortals.

Marvel comics adapted parts of this story into creating the character of Thialfi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thialfi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thialfi_%28Marvel_Comics%29

Jesus was slanted into a white guy even though he was supposed to be from a brown area. I forget where exactly and I refuse to look it up, nor do I even care in the slightest, but it's an actual place on Earth so there is a basis to be slanted from.

What kind of neighborhood is Asgard? It's not a real place on Earth so there's no basis thus it's hard to say that maybe their appearances were slanted as well. But by that same argument, because it's not a real place, technically someone could say the Asgard people all looked like furries, Thor was an overweight man in a tiger costume named Whiskers, and they couldn't technically be wrong.

Although, knowing it's not real I guess means all the stories are the law regarding that kind of thing.

Also, depending on how well this movie does, I'm pretty sure Ultimate Heimdall will now be based on movie Heimdall.

Tom Hiddleston On The Controversy Surrounding A Black Actor Being Cast As A Norse God:

"Ken told me that every actor has something for free. Jack Nicholson has an irreverence for free, Anthony Hopkins has a majesty and gravitas for free. Idris Elba, who plays Heimdall in Thor – and, by the way, anyone who's been complaining about a black actor being cast as a Norse god is just crazy; this is a fantasy world, for goodness sake – has a watchful gravitas for free. He explained that what I have for free is that I can't turn off my intelligence. Therefore Loki would be much more up my street."

I think it's just to diversify the cast so they aren't all one race or colour. They did it in the 1989 movie Batman having Billy Dee Williams play Harvey Dent, a white character in every other media. Also in the Spawn film the role of Terry is played by a white guy whereas in the comics he's black.

I think as it isn't a change to a major character and it doesn't really take anything away from the main story then it isn't such a big deal.

Norse Gods need affirmative action, real talk. They are just catching up with the civil rights movement and I'm happy about it.

After seeing how Idris looks playing Hemidall now, along with knowing how a great actor he is, I would be more upset at this point if they did change him to be a white actor. I think it's so cool that they are changing some characters to be brothas...goes to show that it's a sign of the times, reflecting our world in how we've changed as a people in a sense. I mean up until a few years ago only time i got to see a black president was in sci-fi movies. I am so glad to be alive to see one finally get in office. And I mean correct me if i'm wrong but the frost giants are supposed to be well giants, not some guys with an acromegaly problem.

I think that Jet Li replacing T'challa would play a little against the Black Panther mythos, because him being the first black super heroe in a black continent is kind of part of the mythos.

Some characters should stay a certain way.