Originally posted by Tha C-MasterBingo. I'm thinking back to when Spidey tricked Hydro-Man into chasing him across roof tops in the hot sun while tossing news papers at him, causing him to eventually evaporate lol. Good times.
Meaning he will use his powerset (and there is nothing wrong with that), since he can soak up damage and win quickly.Doesn't matter where he was trained, it's how often he uses it. And military training was not what the OP was talking about. I was talking more about what the OP was talking about. Since he made the thread.
I'm not saying that Logan doesn't have tactics, just that based on what the thread starter said Spider-Man fits his description.
Originally posted by dmillsI think Spider-Man acting foolish is part of his tactics.
Bingo. I'm thinking back to when Spidey tricked Hydro-Man into chasing him across roof tops in the hot sun while tossing news papers at him, causing him to eventually evaporate lol. Good times.
It just seems like almost every fight Spider-Man is in he finds some alternate solution to take them out for the sake of doing less damage to the area, or to override a power. He's fought people with all kinds of power and he outsmarts them, hence why I give it to him.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganMaybe they're just tactical in different ways. Wolverine relies on stealth, Spider-Man relies on exploiting weaknesses and using the environment (and his inventions from time to time).
I dont wanna spam the thread with wolverine feats, but he is more tactical then spidy. And he has the feats to prove it.though niether I would say wins here, it most likely magneto, scot, or doom.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterNot necessarily. They would have to use tactics while using their powers as effectively as possible to supplement those tactics.
If it works for him, but then again any character using their powers would be a good "tactician" in that case.Does he have good tactics, yes? Does he use them constantly or with the same complexity? I'd say no.
I don't think Wolverine avoiding attacks would make him any better of a tactician simply because he'd be avoiding using his powers.
Wolverine doesn't need to avoid attacks, and the manner in which he accustoms himself to a new style of fighting based around his powerset demonstrates himself as a good tactician. Deadpool's very similar in that regard- Wolverine simply has more and greater feats due to being older and possessing greater history with tactical forces, which he has continuously demonstrated throughout his career.
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For the sake of clarification, Wolverine is being discussed because the very description and criteria used to name Spider-Man in the OP can be argued to fit Logan better than Parker.
I don't think anybody's saying that he's necessarily better than Scott, Cap or the other top marvel tacticians, and I'd hate to give off the impression that that was my argument. I just think he's better than Parker, given the criteria mentioned.
Originally posted by dmills
Bingo. I'm thinking back to when Spidey tricked Hydro-Man into chasing him across roof tops in the hot sun while tossing news papers at him, causing him to eventually evaporate lol. Good times.
Spidermans feats may be more flashy, but they are not more impressive.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganSpider-Man outsmarts groups, he fights smarter enemies more often too. He webbed Ock in the eyes so his ID sytem shocked him. He's outsmarted Venom and Carnage too. As well as Rhino (of course).
I thinking back to when wolverine killed army of super villains in shield heliciarer using his tactical processes and with out taking a single hit.Spidermans feats may be more flashy, but they are not more impressive.
He *has* to rely on his smarts because his foes rip him to pieces in a direct brawl more often than not. Wolverine can take the damage so although he has tactical smarts he doesn't have to rely on them as much.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterI agree.
I think Spider-Man acting foolish is part of his tactics.It just seems like almost every fight Spider-Man is in he finds some alternate solution to take them out for the sake of doing less damage to the area, or to override a power. He's fought people with all kinds of power and he outsmarts them, hence why I give it to him.
Originally posted by Existere
-----------For the sake of clarification, Wolverine is being discussed because the very description and criteria used to name Spider-Man in the OP can be argued to fit Logan better than Parker.
I don't think anybody's saying that he's necessarily better than Scott, Cap or the other top marvel tacticians, and I'd hate to give off the impression that that was my argument. I just think he's better than Parker, given the criteria mentioned.
That goes double for me. I just think he fits the bill better then parker.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man outsmarts groups, he fights smarter enemies more often too. He webbed Ock in the eyes so his ID sytem shocked him. He's outsmarted Venom and Carnage too. As well as Rhino (of course).
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He *has* to rely on his smarts because his foes rip him to pieces in a direct brawl more often than not. Wolverine can take the damage so although he has tactical smarts he doesn't have to rely on them as much.
Also spiderman brawls and gets hit a lot more then your implying.
Originally posted by Existere
Not necessarily. They would have to use tactics while using their powers as effectively as possible to supplement those tactics.I don't think Wolverine avoiding attacks would make him any better of a tactician simply because he'd be avoiding using his powers.
Wolverine doesn't need to avoid attacks, and the manner in which he accustoms himself to a new style of fighting based around his powerset demonstrates himself as a good tactician. Deadpool's very similar in that regard- Wolverine simply has more and greater feats due to being older and possessing greater history with tactical forces, which he has continuously demonstrated throughout his career.
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For the sake of clarification, Wolverine is being discussed because the very description and criteria used to name Spider-Man in the OP can be argued to fit Logan better than Parker.
I don't think anybody's saying that he's necessarily better than Scott, Cap or the other top marvel tacticians, and I'd hate to give off the impression that that was my argument. I just think he's better than Parker, given the criteria mentioned.
Right and their is nothing wrong with using their powers. I looked at this as "using your brains to come on top" finding a strategy that is complex or is an exploitation takes more skill than wading through people.
Oh and of course I agree he has good tactics. So does Spider-Man, I wouldn't put them at the top either. Agree to disagree, it's cool.
Originally posted by Dum Dum DuganYou could say the same thing otherwise.
Wolverine tactically out fight groups of individuals. Has fair as good if not better against many of spidermans own rouges like cutting off lizard tail to screw with his balance.That not true at all. Simply because he can get hurt does not make him rely on tactic less. He mix his powers into his tactics and has done so numerous time. He also numerous times utilized tactics with out even the need for his healing factor, In fact incidents I was refferring to he went unscathed.
Also spiderman brawls and gets hit a lot more then your implying.
Lizard would lose (preupgraded). Many he wouldn't really think of a weakness (like Sandman and Hydroman, someone Spider-Man or Wolverine could hurt by their own means alone).
I'm saying he doesn't need to rely on tactics. Wolverine doesn't fight every person and say "Hmmm.... what should I do to him". He does sometimes yes, I have just seen Spider-Man use weakness exploitations and the like more often in his character, and with more complexity).
Spider-Man brawls more against weaker foes, it isn't his primary strategy against stronger ones. Even in their crossovers when they teamed up Wolverine was shown to be more impulsive in his methods.
To each his own though, both have good tactics, we obviously won't agree completely and that's fine.
Originally posted by ExistereGlad someone else noticed.
Yeah. Also, Iron Man and Nick Fury need more love in this thread.