Good point about the hammer's throwing speed and homing ability. That is a pretty powerful offensive capability. But I've always maintained Bill's offense is superior to WW's. That's simply an undeniable fact. But still not enough to take the maj. I'm just too impressed with her speed and unimpressed with his. If they were equal in speed, it would be a massive game changer.
Her speed is superior, yes, but it's not by such a degree that she'll land every attack she throws on Bill while evading all of his. Diana doesn't fight like that, and doesn't display that level of speed needed to perform such a feat against Bill.
Her advantages in this fight include:
-Speed
-Skill
-The Lasso
And while the lasso can potentially end this fight, considering how often she goes for it and how often she actually employs it's exotic powers such as directly attacking the soul, it's not something I'd bet on being likely, at least not for a first encounter. And her speed and skill, while superior to Bill's, isn't shown in comics to be at such a level that he simply cannot compete with and is helpless against her.
If you had to put a cap on bill's reaction-reflex-fight-hand speed, what where would you put it? An honest answer based on contextual feats would have to be subsonic. WW is easily tentimes that. How well would you do against an opponent who, at the very least is as strong as you, more skilled and probably more durable AND can fight 10x faster than you? Sure, bill isn't going to be blitzed to the point where he can't even see what's happening, he'll see, he just won't be able to do much about it. If the hammer is thrown lightspeed, she isn't going to dance around it like flash could, but she won't have to. Either block it, or use her superior mental speed to read his movements and BL to dodge it. a la Batgirl. Batgirl isn't faster than a bullet, but she is faster than the guy shooting the gun. This could be a very similar scenario.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
She's helped towed Earth and the moon before, both with help and as such it's next to impossible to determine how much she contributed outside of "a lot of weight". She's helped lifted the Spectre who was described as weighing "eternity", which again, is unquantifiable, albeit a good feat of strength. These feats in of themselves don't put her beyond Bill in terms of strength, not based on his own feats and who he has matched or stalemated in pure strength (ie. Thor).And while there are certainly posters who do dislike Superman for being "uber" or because he's DC, it's not a majority, and for every diehard anti-DC poster you have, there's an equally overzealous DC supporter. Which is why bringing up company bias is really irrelevant because we all know there's enough to go around, Marvel or DC. As someone who reads comics from both companies, Superman included, it's really tiring to hear this "Oh, there's some kind of KMC anti-Superman/DC movement" style of argument (not accusing you of saying this, btw) and attempting to paint the overall vibe of the forums as some place that holds some irrational grudge against the character and company he represents, when in reality, it's a handful of posters. And in the same breath, conviently ignoring or refusing to point out the sheer ludicrous of people who believe Superman solos Galactus or that he'll operate and use his speeds at levels never shown in comics and to argue otherwise is "hating Superman/DC." Case in point, there's zealots and biased and self-righteous posters representing both companies and whomever their favorite characters are. Thor, Hulk, Surfer, Superman, Flash, Green Lanterns, etc. It's everywhere.
Which of WW's strength feats surpass Thor? And even if she did have them, it's certainly not the norm, not based on her character.
Based on what is Diana going to hit someone a hundred times a second, much less anywhere close to lightspeed? Has she ever displayed this kind of speed or tactic in a comic book? If so, please, show me or tell me the issue; I'd genuinely appreciate it if Diana has done this. Further more, you're assuming, I don't know, Bill stands there and lets such a thing happen to him, which is pretty much downplaying him. It's debatable than Diana even possesses planetary striking power based on her feats - we can make guesses, but prove it? - whereas Bill does. Diana will block several of his attacks, sure, but he's going to hit here, either though melee, a hammer toss (which can go FTL as well as home on an opponent), massive AoE style attacks, BFRing to a realm/environment of his choosing, etc.
I believe what I'm saying because I've actually read an extraordinary amount of Wonder Woman comics and I'm pretty sure I have a pretty damn good handle on the character, and the idea she walks all over Bill for a massive majority is pretty unfounded.
Bill has far too many options for Diana to overcome with her advantages for the majority here.
Bill has no actual strength feats. He has plenty of striking feats. His striking feats are not outside the wrealm of power of say, Zoom, whom Diana has tanked. Or a sun amped Superman. Whom Diana has also tanked. She's played strength match against her own strength combined with Superman's in the form of Amazo. And thru shear will power, was lasting until distracted by another team mate being harmed. Diana has struck an opponent multiple times using a speed blitz. It's in her respect thread.
Diana is leagues faster than BRB. You have not one feat of Bills that puts him anywhere near fast enough to get past Wonder Woman's legendary reflexes.
So what we have here is a guy who can strike hard. But not harder than say Zoom or Superman. And not with nearly the speed that they can.
He has some exotic powers. But so what. So does Amazo, Superman, Circe, etc. They don't seem to be a bother to Diana.
Diana has her own exotic powers. And some of her's are one shots. Lasso bind, Lasso soul suck, Tiara, Zeus lightning, and impossible to break shield, and she is the most skilled high tier brick in comics to boot.
Thor would be a good fight for Diana. Bill would lose. Bill has NOTHING that she hasn't faced before.
Originally posted by googleme
Bill has no actual strength feats. He has plenty of striking feats. His striking feats are not outside the wrealm of power of say, Zoom, whom Diana has tanked. Or a sun amped Superman. Whom Diana has also tanked. She's played strength match against her own strength combined with Superman's in the form of Amazo. And thru shear will power, was lasting until distracted by another team mate being harmed. Diana has struck an opponent multiple times using a speed blitz. It's in her respect thread.Diana is leagues faster than BRB. You have not one feat of Bills that puts him anywhere near fast enough to get past Wonder Woman's legendary reflexes.
So what we have here is a guy who can strike hard. But not harder than say Zoom or Superman. And not with nearly the speed that they can.
He has some exotic powers. But so what. So does Amazo, Superman, Circe, etc. They don't seem to be a bother to Diana.
Diana has her own exotic powers. And some of her's are one shots. Lasso bind, Lasso soul suck, Tiara, Zeus lightning, and impossible to break shield, and she is the most skilled high tier brick in comics to boot.
Thor would be a good fight for Diana. Bill would lose. Bill has NOTHING that she hasn't faced before.
So wrecking 2 planets and lifting up Asgard isn't a strength feat?
Originally posted by carver9Someone said he lifted that with Thor. Also, didn't he wreck planets with help? That would also count as striking power. Striking power is not the same as strength. Zoom and Flash can both hit harder than Superman or Thor and yet niether are as strong as Thor or Superman.
So wrecking 2 planets and lifting up Asgard isn't a strength feat?
Originally posted by psycho gundamOk. So how is it that we are assuming he is stronger than she when that is the only strength feat he has, and it's shared. It could be smaller than a state for all we know. How big is Asgard? Is it a world? I know Asgard has 9 worlds in it. Did they lift all 9 wrealms at once?
the comic nvr stated the mass of asgard
Originally posted by psycho gundamStriking power does count. But only if one can connect. In a real world fight, without comics story coming into play, no one is hitting Woman Woman unless they are like Superman, or the Silver Surfer or someone really really fast. BRB isn't that fast. And even if he was, I dont' think he can hit as hard as Superman.
i have to read it again for the specificsanyway, striking power does in fact count, this is a fight.
Originally posted by googleme
Ok. So how is it that we are assuming he is stronger than she when that is the only strength feat he has, and it's shared. It could be smaller than a state for all we know. How big is Asgard? Is it a world? I know Asgard has 9 worlds in it. Did they lift all 9 wrealms at once?
And this is the reason people need to understand that lifting feats isn't that impressive... especially when you compare it to striker power which would be the main thing in a fist fight.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Then why do you always ask for lifting feats?
Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds.
Originally posted by carver9
Lol... I promise you I thought twice about posting that comment because I knew you were going to reply to it. I thought for a long time before clicking submit. I only bring up lifting feats when people bring it up first but I mainly bring up striking power... that's why you always see me talking about Glads one shotting high Heralds.
Which he rarely if ever does, and when he did, it was a high showing, but...