Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Are you missing a scan? Because the description doesn't match up. I also disagree with Logan side stepping the bullet. It seems like he missed.
I agree
however, even if we give carver the benefit of the doubt on interpretation, its a bulletdodging feat, and Wolverine, afaik, doesn't really have over ~supersonic speed feats
In fact, him rushing the guy as a blur and taking off his hand, before the shooter could notice, is a way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaay better speed feat
Originally posted by BigSidEspecially in Marvel where you don't use numbers, hence why the never ending argument with speed on certain characters exist. They "seem" to be about as fast, but who is really faster? I go to characterization at this point.
👆Which is why we see guys like Mongoose giving Thor fits and at the same time he's shown fast enough to catch Hermes by the ankle.
Originally posted by inimalist
thisthough I do get Juk3n's point, I think in terms of a reasonable answer, sam is dead on
...
are you saying that is an accurate representation of how fast wolverine is normally?
Possibly.
He has done things like this over 5 times. That enough for it to be a powerset don't you think?
Originally posted by carver9
I agree, to a point. What if you have a high Herald claiming that a street/meta is faster than him... how do you look at it then?
You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.
But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic.
Originally posted by inimalist
I agreehowever, even if we give carver the benefit of the doubt on interpretation, its a bulletdodging feat, and Wolverine, afaik, doesn't really have over ~supersonic speed feats
In fact, him rushing the guy as a blur and taking off his hand, before the shooter could notice, is a way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaay better speed feat
I just think based on Logan's long history of just tanking bullets, it's far more likely the dude just missed. You can clearly see that the bullet grazed Logan. He also wasn't looking at the bullet when it flew by but looking back at the shooter.
Yea, he covers a decent amount of distance making it a good feat. Wolverine should be as fast a blur to humans if he wants to be. Enough feats to justify that.
Originally posted by Juk3n^
You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic.
Exactly comics are made to sell, where is where characterization comes in
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He fights his own gallery and it looks about the same even though they are slower.Then there's secret wars. Characters always "match" in a comic.
I think of Wolverine and Spider-Man like Superman and Flash. Can Superman keep up with him? To an extent, but Flash gunning out is the man.
yea and what about it? Wolverine jumped straight up in the air at spidy who he never at contact with before and got hit. Fact you think that evidence to dismiss wolverien constantly matching spiderman is just 🙁 .
Not even remotely close. Your pretty much trying to pretend there is the same gap between wolverine and spiderman as flash and superman? dude that straight up delusional. Facy. Yes I say fact becayse there is so much evidence to support my side of the arguement and almost nothing for yours.
Wolverine matches his feats
Wolverine matches him when they fought which was a number of times
Spiderman question his speed against Wolverine.
Wolverine match spiderman rogues speed and beaten the shit out most of them.
Spiderman foughten and been match by wolverines rogues in speed.
Wolverine even matches spiderman speed when the fight with eachother, numerous times in new x-men.
I trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that superman and flash is comparable to the gap between wolverine and spiderman, it Bullshit will full thinking on your part truth. If that came off mean I am sorry.
Originally posted by Silent Master
When Thor lost his powers, he didn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with Steve during their running battle against gunmen.Writers just tend to lower the power/speed/IQ of top tier characters when they face street level people....if they didn't, the fights would't last a page.
Or, it could be a case of writers just being that damn stupid.
Thor reduced to ~peak human-low meta would have ~peak human-low meta speed, yet Thor as a high end class one hundred suddenly can't move the weight of his body any faster than ~peak human-low meta?
Make no mistake, Thor rightfully SHOULD be able to dance around any street leveler, because of his strength. But its because of his strength that he is made (relatively) slow. blah.
Originally posted by carver9
Possibly.He has done things like this over 5 times. That enough for it to be a powerset don't you think?
well, there is no way to quantify that feat
we have no idea how fast that energy is moving, so it really doesn't suggest that wolverine has reflexes that can react to things moving at close to the speed of sound
we do know how fast bullets move. and if your interpretation of the scan you posted is correct, Wolverine would have to, litterally, be comparably fast to a Classic Quicksilver (or am I wrong, I thought he was just around speed of sound fast...?).
Further, all heroes dodge bullets, and a huge number of them don't have comparable speed feats outside of that.
What the scans do show is that woverine is much faster than a normal human, probably enough so to call it a super-power, but certainly not fast enough to be a character who could legitimately dodge bullets.
also, 5 times for wolverine isn't much.... it would be, iirc, less than .1% of his appearances... [comicvine]
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Actauly that not true at all. several of them have been suggested as fast before and almost all the ones who have superhuman stats have been stated to be as fast. Honestly think you just kinda came up with that to discredit wolverine matching spiderman and his rogues speed.yea and what about it? Wolverine jumped straight up in the air at spidy who he never at contact with before and got hit. Fact you think that evidence to dismiss wolverien constantly matching spiderman is just 🙁 .
Not even remotely close. Your pretty much trying to pretend there is the same gap between wolverine and spiderman as flash and superman? dude that straight up delusional. Facy. Yes I say fact becayse there is so much evidence to support my side of the arguement and almost nothing for yours.
Wolverine matches his feats
Wolverine matches him when they fought which was a number of times
Spiderman question his speed against Wolverine.
he match spiderman rogues speed and beaten the shit out most of them.
Spiderman foughten and been match by wolverines rogues in speed.
I trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that superman and flash is comparable to the gap between wolverine and spiderman, it Bullshit will full thinking on your part truth.
Only ones off of the top of my head that are "as fast" are Venom and Carnage (who is faster). Not to mention he dodges Carnage without SS and is faster than Wolverine.
Batman, Wolverine, Robin, have "similar" speed feats. Doesn't make them as fast, Spider-Man's characterization is his speed. Not to mention he has better ones.
Wolverine said Spider-Man could break his neck, so what? Spider-Man always doubts himself.
He beat his bad guys? Again has nothing to do with speed and more to do with healing and plot devices. Ock, arguably Goblin, Venom, Carnage, Sandman, Hydroman would cream Wolverine on the forum.
I made a thread about this. The vast majority of the forum agreed, except for 3 members... hmmm.
The Superman and Flash thing was a similarity comparsion. The gap is bigger between Flash and Superman and absolute numbers since they are much faster, it's like 90 vs 150 and 10 billion vs 15 billion. Larger overall numbers but it got my point across.
At the end of the day speed is hard to quantify, which is proven by this never-ending argument.
Originally posted by Juk3n
You'd have to quantify it. A statement isn't everything. Thor fights beings that move through hyperspace, but if Earth depended on him to save it, and the enemy was Wolverine..he'd lose because he isn't fast enough? Sounds bogus. Beta Ray bill fought Surfer AT hyperspeed (well, apparantly) and if you call Thor his equal, you have to assume he's faster than Logan and Pete all round by a long way.But writer empathy is the strongest force in comics. Black Panthers armbar, and woverine out striking Thor..can they be considered the same? Put in place to fill panels? No one likes a 1 page comic.
Why are you giving Thor Bills feat? Doesn't make sense.
Using the standard you presented, that would make Hulk a light speedster.
Originally posted by carver9
Why are you giving Thor Bills feat? Doesn't make sense.Using the standard you presented, that would make Hulk a light speedster.
Bill has the same properties as Thor powerset wise, that's why. What allows him to fight at translight speed is his Asgard originated powersource.
Originally posted by inimalist
well, there is no way to quantify that featwe have no idea how fast that energy is moving, so it really doesn't suggest that wolverine has reflexes that can react to things moving at close to the speed of sound
we do know how fast bullets move. and if your interpretation of the scan you posted is correct, Wolverine would have to, litterally, be comparably fast to a Classic Quicksilver (or am I wrong, I thought he was just around speed of sound fast...?).
Further, all heroes dodge bullets, and a huge number of them don't have comparable speed feats outside of that.
What the scans do show is that woverine is much faster than a normal human, probably enough so to call it a super-power, but certainly not fast enough to be a character who could legitimately dodge bullets.
also, 5 times for wolverine isn't much.... it would be, iirc, less than .1% of his appearances... [comicvine]
My point wasn't to put Wolverine on Quicksilver level, it was to show that his speed is superior to Thors and that he is a true speedster (when he wants to be).
How would you quantify this feat?
