Thor speed vs Wolverine/Spiderman vs Batman speed

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yea...and IIRC the building was full of other heroes, so there is no reason to assume that the security system was set to max.

It would be like using someone getting caught crashing a party at the playboy mansion to prove that they can sneak in at night.

If Hugh Hefner was a paranoid super scientist who could create universes, time machines, and dooms day devices before he has his morning coffee, and routinely crossed dimensions to confer with his alternate selves for ideas, then you might be on to something.

Anyway, they all seemed pretty shocked when Wolverine crashed the meeting and revealed that Reed was an impostor. No reason to think the security would have been lower than normal.

Sure there is, not that it matters since he didn't sneak in....Sue caught him on the monitors.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Sure there is, not that it matters since he didn't sneak in....Sue caught him on the monitors.

So he sneaked in, he just didn't sneak out. 😎

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What I mean, is you'll never see a comic where for instance Superman blitzes Captain America and throw it away. Super Speed characters are treated like humans that move fast, they usually don't use their abilities to the max.

Can someone post the match.

Dude, pulling the equalization card is something I don't see you being able to justify. Not if you read the crossover. Fairness or butchering a character to make it a fight was not an issue in that crossover.

Doesn't really help when Superman's speed was specifically touched upon not long before Thor and Clark battled. This is the biggest speed advantage he displayed:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsSuperman1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsSuperman2.jpg

Like I said, earlier, that's about what I'd expect in a comic if Thor battled Superman or one of his clones. Advantage illustrated, but it's not enough that they can't be hit.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
So he sneaked in, he just didn't sneak out. 😎

No, he got caught sneaking in.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've seen him do it more than once on both Superman and Martian Manhunter. At one point, Batman broke into some highly guarded facility and Clark along with John scanned for him with their senses, couldn't even see him. They were baffled.

Batman has snuck around White Martians, pulled the disappearing act on a Flash, broke into the Spectre's temple which was thought to be impossible IIRC. He also infiltrated Lex Corps, used guerrilla tactics on the Legion and the Science Police in the 31st Century etc.

You'd really be hard pressed to prove Logan having better sneaking around/breaking in feats.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah..Batman stealthed his way into The Spectre's citadel in volume 4. lol. None of Spectre's mystical defenses, or any of the number of heros there noticed him until he was already gone. Hilarious.

It was issue 20 something I think. 25 maybe?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He made it almost to the center of complex without setting of any of Reed's alarms or alerting anyone to his presence before Sue finally saw him. I think she stated it was impossible he got as far as he did.

That's a pretty cute feat.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre5.jpg

Chew on that one.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Quicksilver has been upgraded to light speed, but Flash still has feats that would require him to be moving literally billions of times faster than light.

Non PIS, Wolverine has better stealth feats, with PIS Batman can disappear from Superman and has the best stealth feats of any character in any genre. Like Wolverine's healing factor you need to compartmentalize Batman's relevant feats, and his absurd PIS ones.

I agree that Superman at his best should have no problems detecting the Batman. Even then though Batman does stealth against the heavy hitters more often, it's part of being in the DC with the heavy hitters.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Dude, pulling the equalization card is something I don't see you being able to justify. Not if you read the crossover. Fairness or butchering a character to make it a fight was not an issue in that crossover.

Doesn't really help when Superman's speed was specifically touched upon not long before Thor and Clark battled. This is the biggest speed advantage he displayed:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsSuperman1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsSuperman2.jpg

Like I said, earlier, that's about what I'd expect in a comic if Thor battled Superman or one of his clones. Advantage illustrated, but it's not enough that they can't be hit.

It happens even in universe. The problem is crossover matches are big sells and they aren't going to make one character look too bad.

Don't see what the big deal was in saying that, it's completely true.

If Superman and Thor fought on panel, it would be a more or less even back and forth. If Superman used his speed he should have little problem beating Thor, but with equal speed Thor's other powers and mjolnir should give him a pretty solid majority... so instead the both fight like bruisers.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If Superman and Thor fought on panel, it would be a more or less even back and forth. If Superman used his speed he should have little problem beating Thor, but with equal speed Thor's other powers and mjolnir should give him a pretty solid majority... so instead the both fight like bruisers.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was issue 20 something I think. 25 maybe?

Originally posted by batdude123
That's a pretty cute feat.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre1.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre2.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre3.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre4.jpg
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batstealthspectre5.jpg

Chew on that one.

That's the one.

Originally posted by Juntai
24.

I was pretty close.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I actually haven't seen that particular instance, but it turned out about what I'd expect, one character moving out of the way and trading hits, etc.

It happens even in universe. The problem is crossover matches are big sells and they aren't going to make one character look too bad.

Don't see what the big deal was in saying that, it's completely true.

Like I said, on paper, Superman should have a huge speed advantage, but in practice? Busiek showed the speed advantage similar to what I'd expect most writer would if they wrote the battle. Not too different from Thor's encounters with super clones.

The way you...phrased, annoyed me a bit I guess. I see where you're coming from but I don't think Busiek was purposefully writing Superman down or anything.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, on paper, Superman should have a huge speed advantage, but in practice? Busiek showed the speed advantage similar to what I'd expect most writer would if they wrote the battle. Not too different from Thor's encounters with super clones.

The way you...phrased, annoyed me a bit I guess. I see where you're coming from but I don't think Busiek was purposefully writing Superman down or anything.

I think they can fight each other fine. Comic book fight and KMC fights aren't the same stud. 😛

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I just meant in general.

I think they can fight each other fine. Comic book fight and KMC fights aren't the same stud. 😛

You mean equalization in general for crossovers? That's fair enough I guess. But for JLA/Avengers, being "equal" was not a big concern I'd argue.

Eh, we go too far sometimes. We'll end up as a second CBR if it gets worse. It's either Thor's not fast enough to fight Superman or Superman's not powerful/versatile enough to fight Thor. We don't end up having battles.

Originally posted by long pig
Well, that doesn't mean too much. Mongoose is insanely fast. Many times faster than Spiderman, in fact he was faster than his spidersense.

I admitted in a later post that Mongoose is a speedster and many people would have a hard time tagging him

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You mean equalization in general for crossovers? That's fair enough I guess. But for JLA/Avengers, being "equal" was not a big concern I'd argue.

Eh, we go too far sometimes. We'll end up as a second CBR if it gets worse. It's either Thor's not fast enough to fight Superman or Superman's not powerful/versatile enough to fight Thor. We don't end up having battles.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yep. It seems way too "kiddish" for a Wolverine book. But if it's canon, then no harm no foul.

Wolverine and Power Pack mini was drawn by the same artist, but there is no scene like that in that series.

I do believe it is canon, otherwise jinzin would mention it in the respect thread.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has sneaked into the Baxter Building and Stark Tower (he is one of the only characters who has been able to do so without gear or aid), and he didn't have a hand in building and designing those security systems like Batman. He was able to avoid Strike Force X for weeks in the rain forest, taking them out one at a time with gorilla tactics, and they all have the same abilities as Wolverine (as well as built in night vision and an assortment of high tech weaponry). Wolverine has also sneaked up on Daredevil, and he has many impressive "ninja vanish" type feats under his belt. I would say outside of sneaking up on Superman (which is well outside the purview of suspension of disbelieve), Wolverine has better stealth feats that Batman.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He made it almost to the center of complex without setting of any of Reed's alarms or alerting anyone to his presence before Sue finally saw him. I think she stated it was impossible he got as far as he did.

The thought of Wolverine with just his claws and regular powers and without any equipment somehow "sneaking" past super-advanced security just by being extra "sneaky" also makes me laugh. He was actually shown walking with the sneaky stance (walking crouched with arms bent and hands out flat in front of him) when he set the alarm off. Pretty funny.