Harry Potter vs Helms Deep

RJ, you just need to be as up on LOTR as you are on HP. And that doesn't mean just movies.

So as soon as you're done with The Simarillion [which I have just badly mispelled], The Hobbit, and all three books of The Lord of the Rings, only then can you answer this question with no bias.

Personally, I'm for HP. Most of the LOTR lot will be fighting with swords, arrows, maces, shields... all of which wizard spells top. Wizards can make LOTR's weapons turn on themselves. We don't even know all the spells in the Harry Potter canon, but we know that great wizards can create new spells and that the spell library probably expands hourly.
We can't really compare the wizards in HP to the wizards in LOTR... their magic is very different. But overall it seems that HP wizards are faster with their work, and LOTR are classic, must find portents and relics and dig through piles and piles of old parchment and know fifty million languages...
And preparing for battle takes a long time. During all the preparations, wizards can K/O most of the LOTR crowd. Of course there are exceptions. Ents, the Maiar, Elves, and perhaps some members of the Fellowship.
But HP wizards also try to be efficient and leave innocents alive. In this situation, they would need a very good reason to kill the citizens of Rohan and so forth.

Agreed, LOTR magic is some of the weakest magic in anything you're going to find. It is by no means meant to be wielded as a weapon and is practically useless in combat. HP would rape them so hard in a fight it isn't funny.

However the Balrog is kind of ameaty foe by any standard. And Harry Potter is definately not the best his verse has to offer.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
RJ, you just need to be as up on LOTR as you are on HP. And that doesn't mean just movies.

Maybe... its better than HP though.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Maybe... its better than HP though.

That's not setting the bar all too high.

Thats very true.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Thats very true.

Question should be: "What's not better than Harry Potter?"

-Being called a sow and anally raped by toothless hillbillies while camping/canoeing

😂 😂 😂

That and rootcanal....

Why is the word 'anal' hidden in Root Canal...?
Im never trusting an anesthetist again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Agreed, LOTR magic is some of the weakest magic in anything you're going to find. It is by no means meant to be wielded as a weapon and is practically useless in combat. HP would rape them so hard in a fight it isn't funny.

However the Balrog is kind of ameaty foe by any standard. And Harry Potter is definately not the best his verse has to offer.

The Balrog would not win due to any nonsense like magic. It wins due to size and strength.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Agreed, LOTR magic is some of the weakest magic in anything you're going to find. It is by no means meant to be wielded as a weapon and is practically useless in combat.

Certain chracters such as Sauron and Luthien were quite capable of it.

Originally posted by ares834
Certain chracters such as Sauron and Luthien were quite capable of it.

They don't really have any solid feats that could really be used in a fight though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
It doesn't have a soul, does it?

It's a fallen angel for lack of a better description. Really at it's most basic it doesn't have a spirit it is a spirit.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
They don't really have any solid feats that could really be used in a fight though.

Sure they do. Luthein put plenty of people to sleep including Morgoth she also broke down walls with it. Sauron took the tower Minas Tirith, not the one in LotR, down by himself. He also had a duel of song, read as magic, with the elven king Finrod.

Originally posted by ares834
Sure they do. Luthein put plenty of people to sleep including Morgoth she also broke down walls with it. Sauron took the tower Minas Tirith, not the one in LotR, down by himself. He also had a duel of song, read as magic, with the elven king Finrod.

The Luthien feat is fine, sure,

But the Sauron feat is incredibly vague and need moar elaboration.

Atleast from what I've read mmm

Balrog's have souls. They are souls. The killing spell will remove the soul from the physical form they've taken, just the same as it would on anything else. Unless it has an anti-killing spell charm that can specifically block the killing spell (which would be the requirement to be immune to it...which it obviously does not have). The Balrog's soul would go to the Void after being smacked down by the killing spell. It would have butts*x with Melkor and Sauron.

All of this BS about it being immune to HP magic is just that: complete BS. Stop hating on HP because RJ loves it.

Ahahahahahaha pwned.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Balrog's have souls. They are souls. The killing spell will remove the soul from the physical form they've taken, just the same as it would on anything else.

The problem, of course, is that a Balrog's physical form is it's soul, unlike humans there isn't a distinction between soul and body as they are one and the same.

Furthermore there is a distinction between Balrogs and souls. In middle earth souls are called Fëa and belong only to the Children of Iluvatar and those he decided to bless namely the dwarves. Maia, on the other hand, are quite distinct from Fëa. For example there is a clear distinction between those wolves possesd of Fëa and those of Maia.

Finally, to say that Avada Kadavra will kill anything with a soul and body is a no-limits fallacy.

Originally posted by ares834
The problem, of course, is that a Balrog's physical form is it's soul,

No it's not.

The body is not "its" soul. It's an actual physical form taken by the cast at Maiar. It's like you or I putting on a mascot outfit.

Originally posted by ares834
unlike humans there isn't a distinction between soul and body as they are one and the same.

Wrong.

You're creating the lack of a distinction ONLY BECAUSE you want there to be some way the soul isn't torn from a corporeal form specifically to prevent a magical spell from the other side from being used. That's not going to fly and I've already called that bs.

Originally posted by ares834
Furthermore there is a distinction between Balrogs and souls. In middle earth souls are called Fëa and belong only to the Children of Iluvatar and those he decided to bless namely the dwarves. Maia, on the other hand, are quite distinct from Fëa. For example there is a clear distinction between those wolves possesd of Fëa and those of Maia.

This is a strawman and completely irelevant. This is an attempt to flaunt your knowledge of LoTR to bolster your position as "knowledgable" so it appears to others that you previous statements are incontestable. Not only am I calling you on your BS, you've you've made a fatal error: all of Eru's Valor/Maia ARE spirits that existed before Ea was created.

Originally posted by ares834
Finally, to say that Avada Kadavra will kill anything with a soul and body is a no-limits fallacy.

To say that the Balrog is immune to all magic is actually the no-limits fallacy in question (and what I was calling BS) especially considering the apparant defeat of the Balrog at the hands of a wizard that is weak compared to the HP wizards. But thanks for trying to blame shift the no-limits fallacy in the wrong direction: your dodge has been duely noted. 🙂

Lastly, I never once said that the killing spell could kill anything with a soul and body. Again, another strawman attempt on your part. You really suck as this debate thing, don't you?

I said the requirement to be immune to it was a shield charm that can block it. That does not exist in Middle Earth. It will not kill any of the Valor, but it would remove the souls from the corporeal forms they have taken. This is where you fail.

Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]No it's not.

The body is not "its" soul. It's an actual physical form taken by the cast at Maiar. It's like you or I putting on a mascot outfit.

Um... For other maia yes, but not in the case of the Balrogs. The Balrogs, along with many other dark creatures, became corporeal rather than simply make bodies. This is why when they are destroyed they stay dead, it because by destroying their bodies one destroys the spirit as well.

Comparetivly, other Maia simply have their bodies destroyed and overtime they can reform.

Wrong.

You're creating the lack of a distinction ONLY BECAUSE you want there to be some way the soul isn't torn from a corporeal form specifically to prevent a magical spell from the other side from being used. That's not going to fly and I've already called that bs.

It's completley different.

This is a strawman and completely irelevant. This is an attempt to flaunt your knowledge of LoTR to bolster your position as "knowledgable" so it appears to others that you previous statements are incontestable. Not only am I calling you on your BS, you've you've made a fatal error: all of Eru's Valor/Maia ARE spirits that existed before Ea was created.

The Maiar themselves are spiritual beings, in fact I have stated that earlier. My entire point was they don't have a soul, which as I said is called a Fea in ME. It's the same way many Christians view angels.

Also I see no strawman here. In fact, I was providing evidence that Balrogs may not have souls. which certainly seems the case.

To say that the Balrog is immune to all magic is actually the no-limits fallacy in question (and what I was calling BS) especially considering the apparant defeat of the Balrog at the hands of a wizard that is weak compared to the HP wizards. But thanks for trying to blame shift the no-limits fallacy in the wrong direction: your dodge has been duely noted. 🙂

Strawman much! I never said a Balrog is immune to all magic, hell I never even said it would be immune to Avada Kadavra! Also I would like some substantial proof that Avada Kadavra would work on a target as big as a balrog.

Lastly, I never once said that the killing spell could kill anything with a soul and body. Again, another strawman attempt on your part. You really suck as this debate thing, don't you?

Already resorting to ad hominems I see. Classy.

And for almost all intents and purposes removing soul from body=killing. Still it remains that you claimed it will remove any soul from any physical form, hence no-limits fallacy!

Originally posted by dadudemon

All of this BS about it being immune to HP magic is just that: complete BS. Stop hating on HP because RJ loves it.

It was based on the fact that RJ was BSing about HP magic being 100% reliable, with literally no reason to state it, due to the fact that he doesn't know what the mechanics are of HP magic, yet he blindly assumes victory in every case.
We all have our reasons for disliking Potter, and RJ just adds to them. 🙂