Originally posted by BorbaradHonestly, as far as pictures go you used like, the absolute worst one for your example, lol. Obi-Wan was obviously outmaneuvered into overextending himself, meaning he was not laying on the kinetic force, and only the near tip of Anakin's blade was resting against Dookus blade. In fact, considering the positioning of their blades, you've basically got both Anakin and Obi-Wan in positions where they have almost no leverage, against Dooku who, through positioning, has all the leverage (their blades are meeting his right next to his hilt, meaning he has a ton of leverage).And here we see Dooku not being able to meet the vast kinetic power of Djem So, demonstrated by the fact that he's not able to parry Anakin and Obi-Wan at the same time, utilizing just one hand. He's totally overwhelmed there. Apparently, somebody has just forgotten to lecture him on the supposed disadvantage of his style, because he should have broken his wrist right there. 🙄
Furthermore, it's also highly possible that much of that one-handed push-back can be attributed to Dooku's force mastery enhancing him, ala Yoda being able to contend with the taller, stronger Palpatine in a saber lock. Nothing in that image really suggests that Dooku is holding his own, physical strength wise, through the merit of his soresu.
JT
Can you post it?
ROTS
Dooku lifted an eyebrow. "I have overstepped, my Master,"
he said with his customary grace. "I am only observing, not arguing.
Not at all."
"Skywalker's arm makes him, for our purposes, even better.
It is the permanent symbol of the sacrifices he has made in the
name of peace and justice. It is a badge of heroism that he must
publicly wear for the rest of his life; no one can ever look at him
and doubt his honor, his courage, his integrity. He is perfect, just
as he is. Perfect. The only question that remains is whether he is
capable of transcending the artificial limitations of his Jedi indoctrination.
And that, my lord Count, is precisely what today's
operation is designed to discover."
Dooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced
Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular
fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that
his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark
side itself. It was said that whenever the Force closes a hatch, it
opens a viewport... and every viewport that had so much as cracked
in this past thirteen standard years had found a Dark Lord of the Sith
already at the rim, peering in, calculating how best to slip through.
Improving upon his Master's plan was near to impossible; his
own idea, of substituting Kenobi for Skywalker, he had to admit
was only the product of a certain misplaced sentimentality. Skywalker
was almost certainly the man for the job.
He should be; Darth Sidious had spent a considerable number of
years making him so.
Today's test would remove the almost.
He had no doubt that Skywalker would fall. Dooku understood
that this was more than a test for Skywalker; though Sidious had
never said so directly, Dooku was certain that he himself was being
tested as well. Success today would show his Master that he was
worthy of the mantle of Mastery himself: by the end of the coming
battle, he would have initiated Skywalker into the manifold glories of
the dark side, just as Sidious had initiated him.
He gave no thought to failure. Why should he?
"But—forgive me, Master. But Kenobi having fallen to my
blade, are you certain Skywalker will ever accept my orders? You
must admit that his biography offers little confidence that he is
capable of obedience at all."
"Skywalker's power brings with it more than mere obedience.
It brings creativity, and luck; we need never concern ourselves
with the sort of instruction that Grievous, for
example, requires. Even the blind fools on the Jedi
Council see clearly enough to understand this; even they
no longer try to tell him how, they merely tell him what.
And he finds a way. He always has."
Dooku nodded. For the first time since Sidious had revealed the
true subtlety of this masterpiece, Dooku allowed himself to
relax enough to imagine the outcome.
With his heroic capture of Count Dooku, Anakin Skywalker will
become the ultimate hero: the greatest hero in the history of he
Republic, perhaps of the Jedi Order itself. The loss of his beloved
partner will add just exactly the correct spice of tragedy to give
melancholy weight to his every word, when he gives his HoloNet
interviews denouncing the Senate's corruption as impeding the war
effort, when he delicately—oh, so delicately, not to mention
reluctantly—insinuates that corruption in the Jedi Order prolonged
the war as well.
When he announces the creation of a new order of Force-using
warriors.
He will be the perfect commanding general for the Sith Army.
Dooku could only shake his head in awe. And to think that
only days earlier, the Jedi had seemed so close to uncovering, even
destroying, all he and his Master had worked for. But he should
never have feared. His Master never lost. He would never lose. He
was the definition of unbeatable.
How can one defeat an enemy one thinks is a friend?
And now, with a single brilliant stroke, his Master would turn the
Jedi Order back upon itself like an Ethrani ourobouros devouring
its own tail.
This was the day. The hour.
The death of Obi-Wan Kenobi would be the death of the Republic.
Today would see the birth of the Empire.
"Tyranus? Are you well?"
"Am I..." Dooku realized that his eyes had misted. "Yes, my
Master. I am beyond well. Today, the climax—the grand finale
the culmination of all your decades of work... I find myself
somewhat overcome."
"Compose yourself, Tyranus. Kenobi and Skywalker are
nearly at the door. Play your part, my apprentice, and the galaxy is
ours."
Dooku straightened and for the first time looked his Master in
the eyes.
Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith, sat in the General's
Chair, shackled to it at the wrist and ankle.
Dooku bowed to him. "Thank you, Chancellor."
Palpatine of Naboo, Supreme Chancellor of the Republic,
replied, "Withdraw. They are here."
Originally posted by RagingBonerSeems like kind of a stupid test, don't you think? How is it indicative of Anakin's skill if Dooku is holding back?
Yeah, I'm looking at the script right now and I'm not seeing it. I've tried Ctrl + F and searched for "fake" and "restrain" but haven't found any references regarding the good Count.Besides, it definitely conflicts with what Mr. Lucas had to say:
Would you mind pointing out where exactly Sidious is overbalanced?
Blax
Seems like kind of a stupid test, don't you think? How is it indicative of Anakin's skill if Dooku is holding back?
Because Dooku wasn't supposed to hold back. At the end of Labyrinth of Evil, Sidious instructs Dooku to make the contest appear real or some-such. Likewise, in the Rise of Darth Vader, Sidious tells Vader that if Dooku had been stronger in the dark side, he would be sitting at Palpatine's right hand, not Vader.
Thus the contest. Palpatine is ordering Dooku to fight Anakin and, if Anakin loses, they'll let him go and try again in the future. If Anakin wins, Sidious will intervene and Dooku will be spared and then they'll all rule the galaxy and live happily ever after.
The reality is that Palpatine has no intentions of having two apprentices.
Blax
So was Dooku "pulling his punches" or no?
Based on what Lucas says, no. If Dooku was under orders to go easy on Anakin, Anakin's victory wouldn't be in doubt, since the Count would just allow himself to lose. But, according to Lucas, Palpatine has made room for the possibility that Dooku will win, in which case Anakin is not yet worthy to join the ranks of the Sith.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'm just curious - how can a lightsaber style that's deliberately made to combat other lightsaber users fail to account for .... swinging really hard?I realize what you're trying to say, but really... "Oh ****, is he swinging hard? My entire fighting philosophy didn't take that into account!"
Most Pathetic Style goes to....
Swinging hard and being effective at the same time isn't all that easy 🙂 A lot of the time it'd leave a foe over committed.
And it's not that it doesn't account for it at all- most of the time the way it handles it would be to out-finesse the opponent, and many opponents probably aren't strong enough or fast enough to really make it an advantage. It's just when the opponent is good enough to force that kind of clashes that Makashi can lose out.
Far from the most pathetic style, I believe Anakin's is the *only* style noted to be able to give it trouble, and even then it's not exactly what I'd call a sizable disadvantage.
Originally posted by Q99
Swinging hard and being effective at the same time isn't all that easy 🙂 A lot of the time it'd leave a foe over committed.And it's not that it doesn't account for it at all- most of the time the way it handles it would be to out-finesse the opponent, and many opponents probably aren't strong enough or fast enough to really make it an advantage. It's just when the opponent is good enough to force that kind of clashes that Makashi can lose out.
Far from the most pathetic style, I believe Anakin's is the *only* style noted to be able to give it trouble, and even then it's not exactly what I'd call a sizable disadvantage.
But if you watch the fight itself, Anakin lands exactly one blow that noticeably bats away Dooku's defense, and then physically grabs his arms while doing a rather subtle twist maneuver. Out-batting Dooku never comes into it.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Based on what Lucas says, no. If Dooku was under orders to go easy on Anakin, Anakin's victory wouldn't be in doubt, since the Count would just allow himself to lose. But, according to Lucas, Palpatine has made room for the possibility that Dooku will win, in which case Anakin is not yet worthy to join the ranks of the Sith.
Dooku was pulling back a bit in that he wasn't trying to kill Anakin.