Originally posted by Stealth MooseIt's not that Makashi cannot withstand any kinetic force used against it, it's that in some (rare) cases, Makashi doesn't possess the raw kinetic/brute force to match up to some of the more physically intensive forms head to head - which makes sense. Makashi utilizes precision and efficiency over brute power. It uses jabs, parries, and light cuts as opposed to slashes, blocks, and chops.
The whole EU idea of Makashi not being able to withstand kinetic energy is bullshit
However, it's not like any random ock can waltz over and start hurling a lightsaber around like Stevie Wonder at batting practice, and hope to beat Dooku. It has to be a high-level master of a very kinetically powerful form, before Dooku will even begin to notice that Makashi isn't strong enough to compete with it head-on. For instance, it took battling RotS Anakin (one of the finest practitioners of Djem-So Dooku had ever seen) for him to take note of the kinetic force 'weakness' inherent in his form.
Originally posted by Galan007
It's not that Makashi cannot withstand any kinetic force used against it, it's that in some (rare) cases, Makashi doesn't possess the raw kinetic/brute force to match up to some of the more physically intensive forms head to head - which makes sense. Makashi utilizes precision and efficiency over brute power. It uses jabs, parries, and light cuts as opposed to slashes, blocks, and chops.
Fencing 101: The European style fencing, which forms the basis for Dooku's style doesn't make use of straigth forward parries but (the real fencing weapons weren't made for that kind of manouver), rather than that, works by redirecting kinetic energy of an attack by subtely altering its direction. That being said, assuming that it could be overpowered by any amount of brute force, is absolute nonsense.
However, it's not like any random ock can waltz over and start hurling a lightsaber around like Stevie Wonder at batting practice, and hope to beat Dooku. It has to be a high-level master of a very kinetically powerful form, before Dooku will even begin to notice that Makashi isn't strong enough to compete with it head-on. For instance, it took battling RotS Anakin (one of the finest practitioners of Djem-So Dooku had ever seen) for him to take note of the kinetic force 'weakness' inherent in his form.
Since you agreed in the other thread (after contesting my hint into that direction for 2 pages), that the movies take precedence, I wonder why you once again try to argue the novel version of the events once more, that are clearly contradicted by the movie version of the fight.
Anakin does never overwhelm Dooku's defense with brute force, neither does the Count try to "parry" Anakins swings by simple bringing his lightsaber up against the Chosen One hacking away at him. He "parries" in the fashion I described above, altering the direction of Anakin's attacks.
Originally posted by BorbaradSomewhat arguable:
Anakin does never overwhelm Dooku's defense with brute force, neither does the Count try to "parry" Anakins swings by simple bringing his lightsaber up against the Chosen One hacking away at him. He "parries" in the fashion I described above, altering the direction of Anakin's attacks.
Either way, I didn't say that Makashi not generating enough kinetic force to meet Anakin's Djem-So head to head is why Dooku lost. I just referenced Dooku having noted the difference in kinetic force between the two forms. Please do stop trying to pick arguments.
Originally posted by Galan007
Either way, I didn't say that Makashi not generating enough kinetic force to meet Anakin's Djem-So head to head is why Dooku lost. I just referenced Dooku having noted the difference in kinetic force between the two forms. Please do stop trying to pick arguments. [/B]
You do realize that Dooku noting this is a direct result of Anakin's supposed battering of his defense. Since this doesn't happen, it would be reasonable to conclude that Dooku's thoughts in that direction are likewise non-existant.
I could also point to the fact that last time I checked, Matthew Stover was an author rather than being a martial art expert specialized in swordfights, who was attempting to apply common sense in order to explain the result of the duel between Anakin and Dooku. It seems to be reasonable to assume that the younger, stronger dude overpowers the older, weaker dude with superior strength. And that would even work if both where utilizing their lightsabers like broadswords.
In fact none of them does. We don't see Anakin whacking away at Dooku with power strikes, and neither do we see Dooku in trouble of defending himself against superior kinetic force. So why would his thoughts on that issue be present / canon?
Originally posted by Galan007
Somewhat arguable:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_dxW4NpDU
(around 1:52)
Anyway, the statement(s) made pertaining to Dooku not being able to match Anakin's physical strength, and Makashi not generating the kinetic force to meet his Djem-So head-on, were made before Dooku decided it was 'time to kill' - before he began channeling massive amounts of the force offensively. Once Dooku began doing so, he gained the edge. However, he used most of his power far too quickly against Anakin, thus he lost the edge soon thereafter and began to falter.
At any rate, I never accredited Dooku's loss to Makashi's lack of kinetic force. In fact, I never even implied that. I merely stated that it was "possible" Makashi's lack of kinetic power could play a role in an extended battle with Mace/Vaapad. I gave no absolutes. So please, stop arguing just to argue.
N.
He's German, I wouldn't try to jump on him for a spelling mistake.You might look a wee bit silly.
While I'm not condoning anyone assuming the role of Grammar Nazi, coupled with the fact that Nai's posts are invisible to me, I believe JT was simply making a point that Nai's intellect, while formidable, is absolutely fallible. (Based on previous encounters with Nai, I could understand how one would conclude that the German truly believes and presents himself to be a genius beyond reproach.)
In context, JT's reaction is petty, but understandable.
(I also appreciate the delicious irony of the situation: Nai being German, and JT revealing his Grammar Nazi allegiance. teehehe)
Originally posted by Galan007
Borb's presence here obviously proves your little theory... Wrong.ermmnone
Oh.
I'm rather certainly a "genious beyond reproach", merely because I think I'm more educated than most people around here. An idea, that stems from the fact that I'm 5 to 10 years older than most people here. I'm also so damn arrogant to assume, that I'm better in my field of study (the interpretation of fictional sources) than people who did not study the subject. Gosh. What an assine assumption. Everybody knows people who have spent literally thousands of hours with a certain subject don't have a greater insight to it than your Average Joe. Wonder why you need to study medicine in order to be allowed to remove an appendix. I can find the thing with a diagram taken from Wikipedia and it can't be that hard to make some cuts, correct? 🙄
Yup. That's so arrogant. But somehow, being a high-school student that assumes his education and abilities are on par or above that of University graduades doesn't make you arrogant. It makes you "Gideon" - the only six letter synonym for hypocrisy. 👆
Originally posted by truejedi
I've actually taken 3 college fictional analysis classes, and honestly, i walked out of all three feeling like the professor was twisting everything they read to fit their pre-conceived notions of what the text SHOULD be like.
Really?
I had one professor in literature analysis, whos first advice was, that one should never attempt to do an analysis alone. He adviced to either do it in a group, featuring different types of people. The alternative was, to play advocatus diaboli and try to find other interpretations, even if they seemed absurd to oneself, while attacking the own favored one, searching for mistakes and inconsisties.
Now have a look at my user title.