Final Destination [Maximum] Vol.5 War and Kain X Link and Bayonetta

All the skyscraper one was was a stronger charge for the stronger purpose. Same power, different level/amount. As seen with the nails the colours change on the fly. Do you know how many times Ive had to keep going back to that vid to see something >-< Dw my clip was lucky enough to glitch pause on that exact moment. But thats only the impact effect, the same thing happens when it hits Balder. [For future references; printscreen the page, crop and save the image then upload it to photobucket or something.]

The only power that creates fear is its soul sucking ability. Nothing says it can do whats being implied here. 1) 'blow a chunk off' <- thats taking an area away to make the next hit more successful, not like this scene. Durability, especially of things that are not pure solids(humans, unlike rock), doesn't decrease on strike. Stamina does which means the person is easier to drop. 2) If his stamina was tied to his durability then when it drops is durability would too. 3) Without some direct power from the Reaver the questionablity of that scene can be contradicted by later events, and Dumah.

Dumah, with a body at or above Kain's, getting impaled would also contradict the FMV. Very doubtful that only one person would have durability that far above anything else in the verse.

Oh, no. Just moving this argument to the similar one above.

Only inside the wound or if striking on that area and use the open flesh to tear in. The wounds here do not cross. It varies if she affects angel or Witch enemies or not, does when she wants it to. Here for instance. Enzo is trapped for a 1min cutscene(+5secs in that storyframe part), up to 2mins5secs in battle, 26secs til a quick un-pause then 14secs after that. Thats 3m24s, 3m10s excluding the last 14s that Enzo in Bayonetta's view was effected. AKA enough time for around 40-50 full charged attacks. Nope, my claim is what I say it is, anything else is your claim. Theres no reason to think that a character cant use their weapon for fear of it breaking. If there is its from your claim, that needs backing up.

As in the charge means nothing when taking into account what made contact to the skyscraper. Yeah, the same hit effect, colour and size as when it collides with Balder. The same reason why if you fail at countering it hits her and doesn't even break the small platform she's standing on. Its nothing she did, its just an event that happened. Lightning and his other spells are two different things. (Not that his lightning will hit her) His other attacks need a given range. Seeing as a person can see for 3km(I think?)... can even see all the way to the Moon or stars lightyears away] <.< By in-game range/cutscenes he isn't past a dozen or so meters unless something says its longer.

Even if he has his time on and hers off then 'ported by her and struck, she would still have the necessary reactions and speed to either evade or throw up her Witch Time. His whole person is what she'd react to, not the attack. And if you can dodge supersonic bullets you can dodge a peak+ sword, even if he was the only one with time powers on he'd still be a third of her bullets speed.

Originally posted by BloodRain
All the skyscraper one was was a stronger charge for the stronger purpose. Same power, different level/amount. As seen with the nails the colours change on the fly. Do you know how many times Ive had to keep going back to that vid to see something >-< Dw my clip was lucky enough to glitch pause on that exact moment. But thats only the impact effect, the same thing happens when it hits Balder. [For future references; printscreen the page, crop and save the image then upload it to photobucket or something.]

The only power that creates fear is its soul sucking ability. Nothing says it can do whats being implied here. 1) 'blow a chunk off' <- thats taking an area away to make the next hit more successful, not like this scene. Durability, especially of things that are not pure solids(humans, unlike rock), doesn't decrease on strike. Stamina does which means the person is easier to drop. 2) If his stamina was tied to his durability then when it drops is durability would too. 3) Without some direct power from the Reaver the questionablity of that scene can be contradicted by later events, and Dumah.

Dumah, with a body at or above Kain's, getting impaled would also contradict the FMV. Very doubtful that only one person would have durability that far above anything else in the verse.

Oh, no. Just moving this argument to the similar one above.

Only inside the wound or if striking on that area and use the open flesh to tear in. The wounds here do not cross. It varies if she affects angel or Witch enemies or not, does when she wants it to. Here for instance. Enzo is trapped for a 1min cutscene(+5secs in that storyframe part), up to 2mins5secs in battle, 26secs til a quick un-pause then 14secs after that. Thats 3m24s, 3m10s excluding the last 14s that Enzo in Bayonetta's view was effected. AKA enough time for around 40-50 full charged attacks. Nope, my claim is what I say it is, anything else is your claim. Theres no reason to think that a character cant use their weapon for fear of it breaking. If there is its from your claim, that needs backing up.

As in the charge means nothing when taking into account what made contact to the skyscraper. Yeah, the same hit effect, colour and size as when it collides with Balder. The same reason why if you fail at countering it hits her and doesn't even break the small platform she's standing on. Its nothing she did, its just an event that happened. Lightning and his other spells are two different things. (Not that his lightning will hit her) His other attacks need a given range. Seeing as a person can see for 3km(I think?)... can even see all the way to the Moon or stars lightyears away] <.< By in-game range/cutscenes he isn't past a dozen or so meters unless something says its longer.

Even if he has his time on and hers off then 'ported by her and struck, she would still have the necessary reactions and speed to either evade or throw up her Witch Time. His whole person is what she'd react to, not the attack. And if you can dodge supersonic bullets you can dodge a peak+ sword, even if he was the only one with time powers on he'd still be a third of her bullets speed.

So this is your theory now then? that its all the same magic ability, the chants are different andd so are the movements and depictions of magic are for "show" and all they are is a "stronger" charge? this is not necesserily evident, unless we see her charge up for long and longer striking different things with more force...especially when the difference between a fleshy pod and the skyscraper feat is vast. The impact effect when it hits Balder, whos body is a larger area than Bays head (less overall force on the scraper) smashes it too ruin, also energy does not expand across an area in yellow light...magic does that.

Thats a rather strange claim...only power that creates feat, how do you know? Its pure power says it can do it as does the on-screen evidence that your trying to ignore, its pretty simple logic, Top strength Kain>Raziels top strength claw but after reaver strike it weak Kain with bleeding chest>Raziels weak attack. So your claim is that you can only weaken a material or object by breaking a piece off? 🙄 Stamina is how long you can stand, "physical effort"..theres no indication the reaver is draining his physical effort or that this would help him againt Kain. Theres no contradiction unless later events are the same and Dumah is completly unkown, has hardly any feats.

But Dumah is nothing alike to Kain, hes a deevolved being with but a portion of Kains power and furthermore, again you ignore context you have no idea how he was impaled or why and if he has Kains durability wooden pikes cannot pierce him unless he was greatly weakened first, we just dont know, logic dictates he was since no human can face a vampire in Soul reaver periods. Very doubtful? even the most powerful being in that verse? Kains got all the power apart from maybe Elder God.

The wounds are more or less in the same area, furthermore the reaver strikes Kains entire chest area, we see an area more or less as large as Kains left side of his body actually bleeding, thats more than Raziel could do at full strength in the intro. That does not really prove much, for one thing the angels and Jeanne again are free as birds so clearly this time power only works so well against inanimate objects, also the whole cutscene is slow becuse its done using a film wheel. I never said the sword could survive millins of tons of force and its not her weapon, its one she picks up along the way so unlike the Soul reaver was designed for her and used specifically by her throughout her game.

What just because her head makes the contact to send the magic through the charge is irrelevent? that does not even make sense....only it smashes to ruin on balder, not on Bays attack which should if your theory held up smash the skyscraper as well. Lighting wont hit her? you do realise its far quicker than bullets? Thats like saying Bays guns have a range equel to Balders distance from her or something just because thatsone of her feats ,does not make sense. Range=distance, considering Kains powers are magic based, not hydraulic/chemical like a weapons I think its fair to say Bays not going to be out of range unless she runs miles...

A:, no, she will be moving round in slow motion in the hopes of seeing someone she does not know is there...if shes assuming Kain is behind her every time he teleports then this is going to be even easier. B: What makes you say that? in this case shes not dodging a tiny piece of metal, shes dodging a 5ft+ sword and Kain.....area is far far far smaller with a bullet, e.g. despite its speed easier to dodge.

Originally posted by Burning thought
[B]Theres nowhere that states or displays Marcus as wrong 🙄

Except, you know, Kain himself. Something about "dull mortal fools with the minds full of commerce and dung." It's a good line.

KMC forums overrides the manuel, since gameplay mechanics are not allowed.

It's currently all there is to prove the ability even exists. Still you're going to need to prove your claim about Kain being able to do more than is shown.

That counter does not even make sense and I already have the calculations, unless Bloodrain has another source of feats then its settled, regardless, Kain still only needs to strike bay once, either with his sword or his claw. Ironic, you talking about respect despite how your constantly ignoring or mocking me.

I'm not ignoring you, and any mocking is the verbal joust that always seems to happen. I'll stop if you like. Regardless, I don't recall BloodRain conceding that one strike will kill, since the skyscraper durability is still being discussed and I believe the most recent argument is Bayonetta being too fast. Not that I plan on joining that one.

Erm general knowledge? like all vampires are exactly the same...generally of course 🙄

That they drink blood and have weird powers. Presumably Kain also knows that witches have weird powers. To be honest this point doesn't mean much, just that neither will immediately underestimate the other.

Thats not magnus making explosions, note that Kain does not explode if it hits him, it does exactly the same as if Kain uses it on a flesh/blood opponent also put the sound on your comp, magnus clearly says "I will incinerate you" 😉 your making silly claims and generla ones at that, would you say the explosion from a childs fire cracker>>the heat of a blow torch?

It still takes much more power to do what Magnus does than Kain, and Kain seems to only use it when angry enough. (Yes, yes, game mechanics, but it's an abstraction for anger.) Incineration is still a bit more than immolation, too. By the way, for your example to work it needs something a little closer to actual events. Magnus explosion is demonstrably more destructive than Kain setting things on fire. Besides, a blowtorch is designed specifically for melting and has a much greater amount of fuel and said fuel is more active than a simple firecracker, designed to make a lightshow, not heat. Not a great comparison to a flaming explosion versus a fire.

Why folly? when one drop of blood can give Kain what he wants and most if not all opponents can be cut down? The canon from the same manuel says he takes their dark gifts, only thats from the "story" section not the "controls" one 😉 The manuel clearly states a lot of things in the "controls" section as it does in many manuels, would be damn confusing if controls were written as if they were storyline canon.

One drop. Proof please. Anyway, I've told you before that the cursor is a simple abstraction for aiming that can easily be figured out. It could be perfectly explained in-game as "aim at what you want to hit." That you want to disregard that is choosing only one part to focus on, ignoring the given limit. Still, you need to prove that Kain can do more than is shown in game.

GoW 3 manuel, e.g. I am holding it in front of me. You dont know anything about geology, natural heat/pressure can crack/break apart rocks over time, it takes a lot of heat to turn a stone into magma, less so to create pressure but I have countered this whole "magnus is making explosions" rubbish, if you had actually listened to magnus you would have realised this.

Yes, over time, and dumping a massive amount of heat very quickly will break it a bit quicker. Magnus creating enough heat and pressure to do what normally takes quite a while normally in an instant just goes to show he's more powerful than Kain's simply setting something on fire.

Useful according to you, your claiming you know better than a 200 year old vampire? 😆 your making a spectacle of this, and mocking me at the same time...show some respect like you claim I should. The evidence shown already points out Marcus has more knowledge on mind control than any human, A: since MC is not real, and B: he has 200 years+ knowledge on it. Nothing has proven Marcus wrong.....whats been proven wrong is your ability to listen to evidence and the only thing your side has proven is your ability to reach beyond all measure.

Kain quite easily proved Marcus wrong, since he obviously didn't know his own limits. Further, he has failed to use the ability you claim he has when it would have been highly useful. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, or he simply can't do what you claim, or he would have. If you want to say he can do something, show it.

What Sarafan was aggressive to Marcus who is under the Sarafan lords employ? 🙂

MARCUS
You there! You are to conduct me to the Bishop’s manor on the instant.

SERAPHAN GUARD
We were told to be on the lookout for a vampire.

MARCUS
Not me, you fool! You know me. Kain! Kain is the one you seek.

SERAPHAN GUARD
Well, he’s not gonna stop and tell us his name.

MARCUS
You’re to kill him on sight!

SERAPHAN GUARD
Those are our orders.

http://nosgoth.net/BO2/dialogue/Script4.html

I'd say the one refusing to take him to the Bishop because he's a vampire and argues with him. Great time to simply Charm the guy and make him do it, huh? But Marcus doesn't, and the choices are stupidity or inability.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Except, you know, Kain himself. Something about "dull mortal fools with the minds full of commerce and dung." It's a good line.

It's currently all there is to prove the ability even exists. Still you're going to need to prove your claim about Kain being able to do more than is shown.

I'm not ignoring you, and any mocking is the verbal joust that always seems to happen. I'll stop if you like. Regardless, I don't recall BloodRain conceding that one strike will kill, since the skyscraper durability is still being discussed and I believe the most recent argument is Bayonetta being too fast. Not that I plan on joining that one.

That they drink blood and have weird powers. Presumably Kain also knows that witches have weird powers. To be honest this point doesn't mean much, just that neither will immediately underestimate the other.

It still takes much more power to do what Magnus does than Kain, and Kain seems to only use it when angry enough. (Yes, yes, game mechanics, but it's an abstraction for anger.) Incineration is still a bit more than immolation, too. By the way, for your example to work it needs something a little closer to actual events. Magnus explosion is demonstrably more destructive than Kain setting things on fire. Besides, a blowtorch is designed specifically for melting and has a much greater amount of fuel and said fuel is more active than a simple firecracker, designed to make a lightshow, not heat. Not a great comparison to a flaming explosion versus a fire.

One drop. Proof please. Anyway, I've told you before that the cursor is a simple abstraction for aiming that can easily be figured out. It could be perfectly explained in-game as "aim at what you want to hit." That you want to disregard that is choosing only one part to focus on, ignoring the given limit. Still, you need to prove that Kain can do more than is shown in game.

Yes, over time, and dumping a massive amount of heat very quickly will break it a bit quicker. Magnus creating enough heat and pressure to do what normally takes quite a while normally in an instant just goes to show he's more powerful than Kain's simply setting something on fire.

Kain quite easily proved Marcus wrong, since he obviously didn't know his own limits. Further, he has failed to use the ability you claim he has when it would have been highly useful. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, or he simply can't do what you claim, or he would have. If you want to say he can do something, show it.

http://nosgoth.net/BO2/dialogue/Script4.html

I'd say the one refusing to take him to the Bishop because he's a vampire and argues with him. Great time to simply Charm the guy and make him do it, huh? But Marcus doesn't, and the choices are stupidity or inability.

That was Kain commenting on his own resistance, nobody elses.

False, Marcus is the proof as are his actions. There is plenty shown, Marcus proves aggression is not a factor.

The "verbal" joust is still mocking, if you want to play the "respect others" record then at least listen to it yourself.

Although Bay treats even the largest and strongest threats with little care, Kain who does not look like a large and strong threat would put her at a disadvantage wheras Kain has ample experiance with magic users of many avenues. Also, Kain does not mess around like Bay, Dante and other characters in vs.

How do you know? they both have the same effect, same power and displayed on similiar targets (magnus on Kain, Kain on others) they burn just the same, youve been tripped up on the "explosions" part so trying to continue the whole "magnus makes explosions" nonsense is rubbish, they both use pure heat, incineration. Also immolate/incinerate can be used in the exact same context.

I was exaggerating, I like how you try and ask for evidence from anything as if you have this authority, and by doing so it allows you to attempt to convince yourself that your correct. Of course, you would convince me better if you did not miss the point time and time agian, possibly on purpose. And "aggression" is a simple abstraction for what the game doesn ot want you to target due to balance/mechanics.

They both do the same thing, Kains just never tried immolating statues iirc, this does not give you any footing for your argument that Kain is weaker unless you can prove Kain gets a weaker version.

A lot of people do not know their own limits around Kain who is the only one so far showing a canon resistance, in this case it will be Bayonetta who does not know her own limits. Again, highly useful in your opinion, you have not the slightest fathom of what a 200 year old vampire and user of mental domination would deem suitable, and you have little knowledge on Lok in general so you have no place to say.

Why use any ounce of power when a few words suffice? your making a mockery again....theres no real logic behind mind controlling everyone nad having to dominate their actions. I am not going to take out a long machete to cut my bread if a small butter knife will do the job....

Originally posted by Burning Thought
Zant overpowered, Zant displays a lot of feats Ganon does not, the logic that anyone who uses the same power source as another portrays the feats the former can also use is illogical. A similiar power source can be a catalyst for different powers.

Kain does not take peoples power source, he actually takes their Dark gift. Most vampires do not actually have a "power source", their abilities are genetic 9/10. Nice try though, if I tried to claim Kains sons had all the same powers as Kain does, then you would be correct but thats not this dicussion.

Just having fun. I don't really care about this thread since Quanchi came back.