His Force lightning goes from 'melt faces and fvck up black people' to 'completely disintergration'* levels, TK from 'senate pod' to 'small shuttle' and his telepathy moves to mind-****ing millions levels. Also by this time he has mastered his body-surfing immortality technique as well as collected what might well be the largest collection of Force knowledge in the mythos.
Edit: *Though Sithis shows him disintergrating the Sith worm before that iirc.
I recall Gideon mentioning that at the time of ROTS, they were in fact equals, however, Yoda was known to be the "greatest foe the darkside had ever known" or something to that effect.
That said, in the movie, we see that it is Yoda that's disarmed by Sidious and then subsequently blasted from the pod, only to flee as soon as he got his bearings.
If this is RoTJ Sidious, then his force powers have gown exponentially and would more than make up for any lack of physical mobility or agility.
Originally posted by ares834
The script is not higher canon than the novel. In fact, it is contradicted throughout numerous places such as Shaak Ti's death. Nor does it make it clear that Yoda was in control of the fight.
The novel is also contradicted by the movie. Shall we exclude it from the debate then? But in that case, this would turn into a landslide victory for Yoda, given that anything to be said pro Sidious comes from the novel.
And, please: Unlike the C-canon novel, the script is G-canon. So. Yes. It is higher canon than the novel, and we just have to exclude information directly overwritten by higher level canon (the "updated" movie version in this case). Yoda dominating the fight is not among the information overwritten, neither is the idea of the Jedi Master disarming his opponent. So?
Originally posted by Nephthys
I count the darkside ending of TFU for some reason.Wanna fight about it?! excellent
Nope, that just helps my favorite character out 😄
ROTJ Sidious vs ROTS Yoda:
While Sidious no doubt grew more powerful with the force due to gaining more knowledge and 23 more years of intense study, I still see Yoda as being a great challenge to Sidious in the force. Sidious spent most of his time studying different aspects of the force that he did not already know, and developing and mastering new powers. So if Sidious uses his standard combat feats (TK, lightning, and lightsaber prowess), I still see it being a very good fight, with Yoda having an even greater advantage with the lightsaber than he did with ROTS Sidious.
I guess one could argue that Sidious can use far more techniques on Yoda than he did before. But question is which of these different techniques would he use against Yoda in the midst of combat?
Originally posted by Borbarad
The novel is also contradicted by the movie. Shall we exclude it from the debate then?
I never said it was not canon did I? Nope, I didn't.
But in that case, this would turn into a landslide victory for Yoda, given that anything to be said pro Sidious comes from the novel.
And the movie itself where Yoda runs off with his tail between his legs saying "Failed, I have."
And, please: Unlike the C-canon novel, the script is G-canon. So. Yes. It is higher canon than the novel, and we just have to exclude information directly overwritten by higher level canon (the "updated" movie version in this case).
Where have scripts been called G-canon, the only place I see that says such is wikipedia which also calls the movie novelizations G-canon as well.
Yoda dominating the fight is not among the information overwritten, neither is the idea of the Jedi Master disarming his opponent. So?
And yet Yoda dominating the fight isn't in the script. Sure he disarms Sidious, but Sidious also manages to disarm Yoda as well.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
That said, in the movie, we see that it is Yoda that's disarmed by Sidious and then subsequently blasted from the pod, only to flee as soon as he got his bearings.
Plus, the look on Sids face when Yoda was countering his FL says sth like: HOLY FVCK!!, I'm screwed.
I know, irrelevant for the duel itself, but I think it had to be said.🙂
Anyway,
IMO this fight will go sth like:
Sabers; Yoda 7/10
Sids had been noted to have rusty skill with lightsaber by the time of RotS.
By OT he most probably did not get better, in fact, his skill may have declined.
Force: Sids 6-7/10
It’s very hard to judge how much more powerful Sids has become.
As of TFU he owned SK, who earlier trashed Vader. Both those guys have some mind-boggling TK feats to their names. So impressive showing on Sids’s part.
Still I put Yoda above them, both in skill and power in the force. It seems that as of RotS Yoda and Sids were an even match force-wise.
That said I give force battle to Sids, primarily because of two decades he dedicated to force study.
All out: Hmm...
If Yoda closes the distance, I say he wins this, but if Sids keeps Yoda at bay, he has the upper hand.
Same old story. 🙂
In the same movie Sids gets blasted too, but happens to be closer to the centre of the pod, so he manages not to fall.Plus, the look on Sids face when Yoda was countering his FL says sth like: HOLY FVCK!!, I'm screwed.
I know, irrelevant for the duel itself, but I think it had to be said.
Yes, but notably Sidious didn't run away afterwards with his tail between his legs.
And, please: Unlike the C-canon novel, the script is G-canon.
Lucas personally read, editted and annotated the novel. That makes it just as much G-canon as any script, and more so then parts of the script that were taken out of the final version.
'Piffle.
Anyone who claims I amended that statement is either 1) lying, or 2) deceived by liars. Though I did not personally watch him do it, I received from LFL a Word document of Revenge of the Sith with Mr Lucas' edits, which was distinct from the edits I'd already gotten from Sue Rostoni and Howard Roffman and the rest of the LFL crew, and this document was edited in such a detailed fashion that even individual words had been struck off and his preferred replacements inserted, as well as some passages wholly excised and some dialogue replaced with the dialogue from the screenplay. If that's not line-editing, I don't know what is.
What's in that book is there because Mr. Lucas wanted it to be there. What's not in that book is not there because Mr. Lucas wanted it gone.
Period.'
Matthew Stover.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Did you just reply to the same post twice?No.... I don't. 😬
Since when has something that wasn't even shot, not even as a deleted scene, been part of the movie?
what? Stop playing ignorant, we have been over this so many freaking times. this exact same argument. Why waste his time making him prove something to you that has been proven to you many times before?
Originally posted by ares834
I never said it was not canon did I? Nope, I didn't.
No. You just thought about ignoring information from it, which pretty much comes down to the same result, doesn't it?
And the movie itself where Yoda runs off with his tail between his legs saying "Failed, I have."
Yeah. Just because of Sidious, and not because of the group of Clone Troopers already at the side of the Sith Lord, right?
Where have scripts been called G-canon, the only place I see that says such is wikipedia which also calls the movie novelizations G-canon as well.
Everything coming from Lucas is considered G-Canon. He wrote the script. They are G-Canon. That's a pretty simple concept.
And yet Yoda dominating the fight isn't in the script. Sure he disarms Sidious, but Sidious also manages to disarm Yoda as well.
Yes. But Yoda disarms Sidious with his duelling abilities, while Sidious once more (like seen in the movie) makes use of a higher ground position that Yoda jumps to (making him open for the attack). The script gives Yoda an advantage in both lightsaber skill and force mastery.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A early version of the script is absolutely not canon imo. If Lucas never even bothered to film it, then he obviously didn't want it in and took it out early.
not when there are breaks in the action, allowing the material to fit nicely in the gaps. This is the only argument that makes the book true. Without that, we might as well be over in the MvF.
in this case, Canon> your opinion of what Lucas wanted.
Perhaps I misspoke. It is not my opinion. It is not in the movie. Lucas did not film it. He did not approve it. It is not canon.
By taking the scene entirely out of the movie he has unequivably shown that he does not approve of it (as he did to the novel) and that he didn't want it in movies events.
Period.
Originally posted by Nephthys
By taking the scene entirely out of the movie he has unequivably shown that he does not approve of it (as he did to the novel) and that he didn't want it in movies events.Period.
By taking the scene out of the movie, he may just have made a concession to the rule, that he wasn't allowed to deliver a four hour long movie. Something that he outright proclaims himself in the RotS DVD specials.
There goes your "opinion".
Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps I misspoke. It is not my opinion. It is not in the movie. Lucas did not film it. He did not approve it. It is not canon.
Um. He did more than approve it. He wrote it.
By taking the scene entirely out of the movie he has unequivably shown that he does not approve of it (as he did to the novel) and that he didn't want it in movies events.
Period.
Actually... since neither the Movie or the Book tells us where Sidious's lightsaber has gone, this scene fits PERFECTLY, and is in fact NECESSARY to make the leap between the scene in Sidious' office and the Senate Chamber. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, as you at the exact same time try to push the parts of the book that aren't in the movie either.
this is a perfect example of the hypocritical picking and choosing that i was talking about.
Originally posted by Borbarad
By taking the scene out of the movie, he may just have made a concession to the rule, that he wasn't allowed to deliver a four hour long movie. Something that he outright proclaims himself in the RotS DVD specials.There goes your "opinion".
He never filmed them, so they never had a chance of being in the movie at all. He didn't take them out from a finished product, he cut it completely from canon.
Um. He did more than approve it. He wrote it.Actually... since neither the Movie or the Book tells us where Sidious's lightsaber has gone, this scene fits PERFECTLY, and is in fact NECESSARY to make the leap between the scene in Sidious' office and the Senate Chamber. I don't know why this is so hard to understand, as you at the exact same time try to push the parts of the book that aren't in the movie either.
this is a perfect example of the hypocritical picking and choosing that i was talking about.
Look, what makes you think its canon at all? The quote about canon only applies to 'Deleted Scenes' specifically.
I'm not picking and choosing shit, its not mentioned as being canon, so it isn't.