Well, IMO we cannot discard two things that happened in those fights: 1) Tyrant became -or was- capable of absorbing Galactus's energy, and 2) he used Galactus's technology which is quite uber.
Because otherwise we have Tyrant fighting Thanos and some heralds in levels well beyond anything Galactus has ever shown. I mean, we saw Thanos on his knees begging Galactus merci after several upgrades, while he declared he "won" against Tyrant.
It's crystal clear that we aren't to suppose Tyrant is Galactus level.
Originally posted by Allankles
Right.
Read the comics in question before posting then. Tyrant was no herald, in fact, he would be considered a son or brother. Galactus wanted a being just like him so he wasn't alone in the universe... he made Tyrant in his image to be that person. Tyrant is no herald, he was made to be Galatus's equal
Originally posted by Bentley
Well, IMO we cannot discard two things that happened in those fights: 1) Tyrant became -or was- capable of absorbing Galactus's energy, and 2) he used Galactus's technology which is quite uber.Because otherwise we have Tyrant fighting Thanos and some heralds in levels well beyond anything Galactus has ever shown. I mean, we saw Thanos on his knees begging Galactus merci after several upgrades, while he declared he "won" against Tyrant.
It's crystal clear that we aren't to suppose Tyrant is Galactus level.
Huh Bentley? It's also crystal clear Galactus can absorb the same BSE at Tyrant, thus that isn't an advantage for either party. Tyrant being a better tecnopath is just that, him being a better tecnopath.
Lastly, your conclusion is contradicted by numerous narratoin and actions that the writer made clear throughout every appearance of Tyrant. I even listed the narration and actions which you avoided again. If you care to show the illustration and actions that show we aren't suppose to consider Tyrant a threat to Galactus and I'll show the stuff that does... you realize you'll lose that badly right?
Originally posted by Bentley👆
Well, IMO we cannot discard two things that happened in those fights: 1) Tyrant became -or was- capable of absorbing Galactus's energy, and 2) he used Galactus's technology which is quite uber.Because otherwise we have Tyrant fighting Thanos and some heralds in levels well beyond anything Galactus has ever shown. I mean, we saw Thanos on his knees begging Galactus merci after several upgrades, while he declared he "won" against Tyrant.
It's crystal clear that we aren't to suppose Tyrant is Galactus level.
Originally posted by BentleyDid you ever read the Tyrant/Thanos fight ?
Well, IMO we cannot discard two things that happened in those fights: 1) Tyrant became -or was- capable of absorbing Galactus's energy, and 2) he used Galactus's technology which is quite uber.Because otherwise we have Tyrant fighting Thanos and some heralds in levels well beyond anything Galactus has ever shown. I mean, we saw Thanos on his knees begging Galactus merci after several upgrades, while he declared he "won" against Tyrant.
It's crystal clear that we aren't to suppose Tyrant is Galactus level.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh Bentley? It's also crystal clear Galactus can absorb the same BSE at Tyrant, thus that isn't an advantage for either party. Tyrant being a better tecnopath is just that, him being a better tecnopath.
Being a better technopath matters because of what happened, we cannot assume about the things that didn't happen, right? Galactus tech came into play, Tyrant being the better technopath tipped any scales that might have given Big G an advantage or an equalizer against Tyrant's abilities. Being a better technopath doesn't mean you're the more powerful character, Cyborg Superman is a better technopath than Darkseid, but that doesn't make him as powerful.
Also, whether or not Galactus could absorb energy doesn't matter because he didn't absorb it anyways, for all we know Tyrant devised a technique to change his energy output and affect Galactus, after all, he's the one who had a plan to take on Big G. There is also the fact that Galactus doesn't like to fight very much, he is a rather uncreative fighter and seeks to avoid conflict, so discussing he rarely uses his powerset in a impressive matter despite possessing incredible powers.
Those possibilities are excluded from our reasoning, because Galactus didn't even try to absord T's energies. Tyrant affected the tech and used it, that's what we know -and it mattered quite a lot-.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Lastly, your conclusion is contradicted by numerous narratoin and actions that the writer made clear throughout every appearance of Tyrant. I even listed the narration and actions which you avoided again. If you care to show the illustration and actions that show we aren't suppose to consider Tyrant a threat to Galactus and I'll show the stuff that does... you realize you'll lose that badly right?
Who is stating that Tyrant wasn't a threat to Galactus? Of course he was, that's the whole point of the story arc. What I'm arguing is much simpler: Tyrant ain't as powerful as Galactus.
You see, the Fallen One and Beta Ray Bill had been a threat to Galactus before, Hiro Kala too; this doesn't give abstract level power to any of them, it just proves that Galactus can be endangered by someone with enough power and focused in putting him down. Sure, Tyrant is powerful -more than those I just brought up-, but being a threat to Galactus doesn't bump him above just any character because there were special conditions in their face off.
Bring your statements if you want to, but they better say "Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus", because we already know he can threaten him. Nothing new here.
Originally posted by BentleyHow Thanos determines a victory in his eyes by leaving the battlefield doesn't take away from Tyrant. Leaving after taking an orb and withstanding Tyrant level power is a testament to both. Thanos also didn't dispute Tyrant's power superiority or statement he'd probably kill him like he did against Odin.
Was he on his knees an begging? Did he not say he got what he wanted?I don't see how my statement is false.
Thanos also knocked Galactus a lot further with one blast than he did Tyrant. Galactus was also well nourished and is more powerful than Tyrant anyways just not more formidable. Being more powerful doesn't mean unbeatable.
Originally posted by quanchi112
How Thanos determines a victory in his eyes by leaving the battlefield doesn't take away from Tyrant. Leaving after taking an orb and withstanding Tyrant level power is a testament to both. Thanos also didn't dispute Tyrant's power superiority or statement he'd probably kill him like he did against Odin.Thanos also knocked Galactus a lot further with one blast than he did Tyrant. Galactus was also well nourished and is more powerful than Tyrant anyways just not more formidable. Being more powerful doesn't mean unbeatable.
We both know Thanos took Galactus by surprise, he also knew he couldn't win. I don't disagree that Galactus is more powerful, my point is, precisely, that since Galan is more powerful than Tyrant, we should look at the plot to judge exactly what happened. And since there were many circumstances, Tyrant vs Galactus is just not the best way to messure Tyrant's power.
All to say that "X loses because Tyrant defeated Galactus" is a moot statement in any serious debate. Heck, you can argue that it barely matters in a battle between Tyrant and Galactus.
Originally posted by Bentley
Being a better technopath matters because of what happened, we cannot assume about the things that didn't happen, right? Galactus tech came into play, Tyrant being the better technopath tipped any scales that might have given Big G an advantage or an equalizer against Tyrant's abilities. Being a better technopath doesn't mean you're the more powerful character, Cyborg Superman is a better technopath than Darkseid, but that doesn't make him as powerful.Also, whether or not Galactus could absorb energy doesn't matter because he didn't absorb it anyways, for all we know Tyrant devised a technique to change his energy output and affect Galactus, after all, he's the one who had a plan to take on Big G. There is also the fact that Galactus doesn't like to fight very much, he is a rather uncreative fighter and seeks to avoid conflict, so discussing he rarely uses his powerset in a impressive matter despite possessing incredible powers.
Those possibilities are excluded from our reasoning, because Galactus didn't even try to absord T's energies. Tyrant affected the tech and used it, that's what we know -and it mattered quite a lot-.
Who is stating that Tyrant wasn't a threat to Galactus? Of course he was, that's the whole point of the story arc. What I'm arguing is much simpler: Tyrant ain't as powerful as Galactus.
You see, the Fallen One and Beta Ray Bill had been a threat to Galactus before, Hiro Kala too; this doesn't give abstract level power to any of them, it just proves that Galactus can be endangered by someone with enough power and focused in putting him down. Sure, Tyrant is powerful -more than those I just brought up-, but being a threat to Galactus doesn't bump him above just any character because there were special conditions in their face off.
Bring your statements if you want to, but they better say "Tyrant is more powerful than Galactus", because we already know he can threaten him. Nothing new here.
Think about what you're saying for a moment bentley. Advantages determine winners of fights in the VAST majority of comic book fights. That is a common theme. Think about it.. that is like saying Superman is stronger or hits harder... and that determined who won the fight.. but doesn't make him more powerful.... wtf.. Do you see how silly that looks. Abilities and advantages determine fights in real life and comic books. Those variables certainly determine how powerful and formidable you are, not the opposite like you're trying to imply. Just because Tryant is a better tecnopath and used that to his advantage doesnt in anyway take away from the victory or make him any less powerful then Galactus.
You're missing a key part of the puzzle bentley. He is WAY more powerful than the people you named so that comparison is really lacking. You're not getting that Tyrant was MADE IN GALACTUS IMAGE to be his equal. That right there mean he is really really powerful and RIVALS him in power. Yes he lost the first time, but as proven earlier, just because you win one fight doesn't mean you win the second or can't lose. Tyrant was depowerd BUT BUT was regaining ALL his power back in the thousands of years since. He's be gaining it back and preparing to one day confront big g. So yes, that certainly makes him as powerful as Galactus not just a threat when you look at all the information and use common sense.
His point seems to have flown right over your head. Atom was a threat to Darkseid in Rock of Ages, but we know he was nowehere near as powerful. Based on what we saw of Tyrant he was just about a little more powerful than Thanos who was a Trans tier guy at the time. Making him a low skyfather at best.
Dr. Doom was a threat to Galactus, that doesn't mean he's anywhere near as powerful. Superman and Ultraman were a threat to Mandrakk. I could do this all day. The point being, Tyrant wasn't as powerful as Galactus. The simple example given to demonstrate this power differential was how Thanos has done against both.
Allan man, you don't really have a clue what you're talking about. You thought Tyrant was a herald of Galactus. So really, you're not really versed in these characters at all. If you were, you would understand that being made in Galactus image TO BE HIS EQUAL means exactly that, he is around as powerful as Galactus. That simple facts proves that point beyond a shadow of a doubt. Well that, and the first fight lasting many years determine a winner which further proves they were around the same level. If you read the comics that point would be crystal clear
Which is kind of besides the point. So I called him a herald, instead of a companion bot... It still doesn't eliminate the point that was made by Bentley, that being a threat to Galactus doesn't equate to being equal in power.
And to emphasize that this isn't just a generalization we have their encounters with Thanos as clear comparison of their respective power levels.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Allan man, you don't really have a clue what you're talking about. You thought Tyrant was a herald of Galactus. So really, you're not really versed in these characters at all. If you were, you would understand that being made in Galactus image TO BE HIS EQUAL means exactly that, he is around as powerful as Galactus. That simple facts proves that point beyond a shadow of a doubt. Well that, and the first fight lasting many years determine a winner which further proves they were around the same level. If you read the comics that point would be crystal clear
Where does it say that the original fight lastest many years? We only know that it destroyed galaxies.
While yes, Tyrant was created to be more of a companion to Galactus rather than a herald, Galactus depowered him since then.
And yes, I know he's been building his power base for thousands of years, but that doesn't mean he's back to his original level by any means. Look at it like this. After all those thousands of years, Tyrant couldn't even put Thanos down after multiple attacks. Yet Galactus was able to put down an even stronger version of Thanos who was shielded with just one shot.
Originally posted by celestialdemon
Where does it say that the original fight lastest many years? We only know that it destroyed galaxies.While yes, Tyrant was created to be more of a companion to Galactus rather than a herald, Galactus depowered him since then.
And yes, I know he's been building his power base for thousands of years, but that doesn't mean he's back to his original level by any means. Look at it like this. After all those thousands of years, Tyrant couldn't even put Thanos down after multiple attacks. Yet Galactus was able to put down an even stronger version of Thanos who was shielded with just one shot.
You keep on under playing the EXACT terminology used.. it wasn't a companion bot.. it was.. MADE IN HIS IMAGE.. it was... TO HAVE ANOTHER BEING IN THE UNIVERSE JUST LIKE HIM. Those lines prove my exact point that you guys can't get around, while your terminology makes it sound like he was just some robot buddy.
YOu do realize their actual fight PROVES he has at least gained all his power back and if not more right? He won the second fight, while lost the first fight. Of course it makes sense because Tyrant has been around MUCH longer regaining his power then he lived before Galactus depowered him. Thus, if you've been around longer, one would think with common sense (and exponential PC) that you'd be getter better with your powers.. even developing new ones to be an even bigger threat. Ooo wait.. that is EXACTLY what the writers at Marvel were trying to convey, and EXACTLY how it played out lol. Furthermore, are you forgetting that THanos blasted Galactus miles bouncing on a planet.. an amped and prepped Thanos could barely send Tyrant a few feet. Are you also forgetting that while Galactus did have Thanos on his knees and beat... it took a concentrated blasts and depleted Galactus of VITAL nutrients and he needed to feed again. It did so just by having to pierce a shield like he's never had to pierce before.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You keep on under playing the EXACT terminology used.. it wasn't a companion bot.. it was.. MADE IN HIS IMAGE.. it was... TO HAVE ANOTHER BEING IN THE UNIVERSE JUST LIKE HIM. Those lines prove my exact point that you guys can't get around, while your terminology makes it sound like he was just some robot buddy.
Who cares? His image? Companion? Slave? It doesn't matter what the term is. We've already acknowledged he was created to be on Galactus' level. And he lost and was depowered. THAT'S what's important!
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
YOu do realize their actual fight PROVES he has at least gained all his power back and if not more right? He won the second fight, while lost the first fight. Of course it makes sense because Tyrant has been around MUCH longer regaining his power then he lived before Galactus depowered him. Thus, if you've been around longer, one would think with common sense (and exponential PC) that you'd be getter better with your powers.. even developing new ones to be an even bigger threat. Ooo wait.. that is EXACTLY what the writers at Marvel were trying to convey, and EXACTLY how it played out lol. Furthermore, are you forgetting that THanos blasted Galactus miles bouncing on a planet.. an amped and prepped Thanos could barely send Tyrant a few feet. Are you also forgetting that while Galactus did have Thanos on his knees and beat... it took a concentrated blasts and depleted Galactus of VITAL nutrients and he needed to feed again. It did so just by having to pierce a shield like he's never had to pierce before.
No, it didn't prove that at all. None of Tyrant's blast did anwhere near the damage they did during their first fight. In the original, Galactus actually looked ragged and battered. He was barely scratched in the second. How does that prove he was just as powerful if not moreso?
As for Thanos, he was stronger than he was during the Tyrant fight and blasted Galactus when he was unprepared. The only prep Thanos did for Tyrant was learn his origin and get the orb. And he attacked Tyrant when he was ready.
You still have yet to prove definitely that the orb amped Thanos in any way. Not even Tyrant acknowledged an amp. I know exactly what Galactus did. He brought Thanos to his knees in one shot. Doesn't matter how much energy he expended to do it. He was able to when Tyrant failed on a weaker Thanos.
Originally posted by BentleyNo, Galactus was aware of Thanos and the fact he was going to try and destroy Thanos so Thanos acted first. Galactus was also looking right at him. You can't be more aware than making your intentions known while staring at someone.
We both know Thanos took Galactus by surprise, he also knew he couldn't win. I don't disagree that Galactus is more powerful, my point is, precisely, that since Galan is more powerful than Tyrant, we should look at the plot to judge exactly what happened. And since there were many circumstances, Tyrant vs Galactus is just not the best way to messure Tyrant's power.All to say that "X loses because Tyrant defeated Galactus" is a moot statement in any serious debate. Heck, you can argue that it barely matters in a battle between Tyrant and Galactus.
Galactus is more powerful but Tyrant has the power to defeat him when you look at his formidability as well.
It isn't moot since Galactus avoided a confrontation between Tyrant because of his power. Tyrant has no low marks on his resume and his only two defeats were to Galactus and the un. He's mopping the floor with someone who was beaten at Prime's level.
Ok, I'll try to address both Quanchi and Kurupt without quoting to make my post slimmer.
@Quanchi: Tyrant most certainly had no "low showings" per se, but from his battle against heralds and Thanos, we get a very different idea of his powerlevel than from his "victory" against Galactus. We need to reconcile both ideas in a fashion that doesn't dismiss one or the other as bad writing, imo, the Galactus showing is the exception and the rest of the fights are the average.
I already explained how I came up with this conclusion: Tyrant showed two abilities which played a special part into his "beating Galactus", absorbing energy and controling tech. Those two things cannot probably happen against someone other than Galactus, since they didn't happen in any of his other combats, not even his first fight against Galan. What change? The fact that Tyrant was planning to overthrow Galactus fully knowing that Big G was more powerful, he had a plan of action, countermesures and power to back it up. It worked.
This doesn't make Tyrant a weakling in any sort, but it leads towards not basing all our data on his highest showing. Tyrant would be somewhere above Thanos and under Galactus, we should assume that not abyssmaly above Thanos given their fight. That's my entire point.
@Kurupt: Tyrant's technopathy was uber, but we should consider that it worked partly because Galactus tech is incredibly uber itself, if Tyrant had technocontroled Iron Man's armor, his ability would be pointless. Considering such circumstances, the technopathy showing isn't a good mesure to use Tyrant in a forum fight. Most of the time, without uber tech around, Tyrant won't get any advantage from his very powerful ability. That's why this case isn't at all as Superman's strength: Tyrant is so powerful that he needs incredibly uber technology for his technopathy to be useful (in the comic we're discussing it was the case).
I would also believe Tyrant to be incredibly uber if he had shown absorption abilities that worked in someone else aside from Galactus, but all the energy blasts he received didn't seem absorbed nor manipulated in any ways. Hence, we have to assume his ability to absorbe BSE energy is a perfect foil against Galan, and thus, cannot be considered useful to judge his combat against other characters. IF Tyrant was capable of absorbing energy from anyone, up to Galactus's strongest blasts, I'd be the first to admit his incredible power, but this isn't backed up by comics.
For the two reasons mentioned above, which I think are very true to Tyrant's character and to the arc in which he appeared, I cannot focus solely on his fight with Galactus as a mesure of power. I'm not saying we should dismiss it either, of course, technopathy and BSE absoption are abilities that Tyrant posseses to an extremely high level. But his battle with Thanos and the heralds are more similar to the fights he's likely to have in a random forum combat, and thus, the better mesuring stick.