Originally posted by King Kandy
What is Minato going to do to A? How will he penetrate his shroud?
Easy answer is he won't because he won't have to. Though one can conceivably make the argument that his rasengan might be able to break through it.
Minato will win in moments anywhere in the Narutoverse though by KMC rules.
Yeah, that basically. Ports him out of the ring, so A loses by default. 😮
Obviously kidding of course, but apparently HP loses if he aparates out of the ring so really not much of a difference here.
Though realistically, I do support Minato, if only because his FTG is proven to be able to out run Madara, which even A failed to do. And I actually do think now that rasengan can conceivably beat his shroud. Which, even if that doesn't work, I think Minato would have a back up plan. Unlike Naruto, Minato would probably have no qualms about summoning Gamabunta if he needed it. Which would result in this probably.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Yeah, that basically. Ports him out of the ring, so A loses by default. 😮Obviously kidding of course, but apparently HP loses if he aparates out of the ring so really not much of a difference here.
Though realistically, I do support Minato, if only because his FTG is proven to be able to out run Madara, which even A failed to do. And I actually do think now that rasengan can conceivably beat his shroud. Which, even if that doesn't work, I think Minato would have a back up plan. Unlike Naruto, Minato would probably have no qualms about summoning Gamabunta if he needed it. Which would result in this probably.
An FTG which involved Minato porting at the last instant to a moving kunai right behind Madara, just as Madara was about to grab Minato; vs. a straight head-on charge that any 3 Tomoe Sharingan user could have seen coming? Far from the same thing.
Minato isn't faster, not unless he continually ports between kunais.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Easy answer is he won't because he won't have to. Though one can conceivably make the argument that his rasengan might be able to break through it.Minato will win in moments anywhere in the Narutoverse though by KMC rules.
Doubt it. Rasengan's matches up with Chidori, but Chidori has far far greater penetrative force, and it was barely able to penetrate the shroud.
Though it might just be able to cause damage.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
An FTG which involved Minato porting at the last instant to a moving kunai right behind Madara, just as Madara was about to grab Minato; vs. a straight head-on charge that any 3 Tomoe Sharingan user could have seen coming? Far from the same thing.Minato isn't faster, not unless he continually ports between kunais.
And since his attacks are so easily noticeable, Minato should have no problem with them. And when teh Kunai are everywhere, Minato ports from point A to B without a care in the world. And even barring that, Minato is notably quite fast and has remarkable reaction time. FTG just makes him more of a menace.
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Doubt it. Rasengan's matches up with Chidori, but Chidori has far far greater penetrative force, and it was barely able to penetrate the shroud.
Though it might just be able to cause damage.
Which, there is the argument. Naruto's normal rasengan is just as strong as Sasuke's chidori, which actually did pierce the shroud. Minato's is comparably bigger and likely more powerful. It could very well tear the shroud up. Which is what the rasengan would do instead of piercing. And repeated uses of it could very well be damaging to Raikage, especially considering how quickly he can attack in succession and how quickly he can form the rasengan.
Which again, Gamabunta. 😛
A definitely has my bet in this fight. He's fast enough to react to Minato, and his armor gives him a defensive advantage. It should take a lot of rasengan to wear him down, they should only do a little damage each, while on the flipside even a glancing hit is a major threat to Minato.
Minato can't insta-win because A has the reaction time to put up his armor before a kunai gets close. Teleporting gives Minato more movement, but he's facing someone with comparable reaction time, which makes things a lot trickier.
And repeated uses of it could very well be damaging to Raikage, especially considering how quickly he can attack in succession and how quickly he can form the rasengan.
But which happens faster, making a second rasengan or refreshing the shroud? I'd bet on refreshing the shroud, so each rasengan is only going to deal minor damage, the chidori only made a scratch.
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Nor do I think Gamabunta would turn things. Raikage's probably strong enough to throw him 🙂 And Bunta's much slower than either combatant. Odds are even fairly high of him getting in the way. I think this'll be resolved by personal fighting.
Feats of A's reaction time which wasn't due to any telegraphed attack would be nice.
Gamabunta.
Edit: You editor you.
Raikage has pitiful strength feats compared to a lot of other characters. Throwing Gamabunta is not in his range at present. He is only using one arm after all.
But yeah, Toad Flame Bomb. Blowing him up should work nicely.
I think TheAuraAngel has done a nice job of summing up my approach to the discussion.
And about the rasengan vs. chidori: the rasengan, technically, is more destructive than the chidori. If you remember, the back of the water towers. Minato uses a large form. He can also form it ultra fast. He formed one in that ultra-fast "attack" sequence that him and Madara had where they literally determined who was faster in reaction time: Madara's space-time ability or Minato's FTG technique. Minato came out on top, literally.
Also, as I've been arguing, Minato's strength is really high up there. He didn't release the rasengan into Madara until after driving Madara into the ground, making a very large crater. Q99's argument was the rasengan did most of the damage. My argument is Minato's strength is was thing the did all of the ground damage but the rasengan is the thing that damaged Madara's back AFTER he released it.
IMO, that's one of the strongest "feats" seen by a non-biju character. Just look at all the ground around Madara.
I compared it to the damage that A did in the ground with Sasuke's body. 🙂
I think A's is slightly larger, but not by much.
Also, my interpretation of those words about A are this:
1. It was an exaggeration about A's actual speed. They were just using a past legend to make a comparison to. Similar to B saying Naruto was ultra fast, like Minato, when he first used his mastered kyuubi chakra.
2. It was referring to the amped version of A.
I think Minato could take out A, much easier, with the same tactic he used against Madara. In fact, I think the fight could be over very quickly. A seems to take a bit to amp himself up as it shows him actually amping whereas, Minato, instantly created a large rasengan during the ultra-fast exchange he had with Madara.
Based on feats, Sage Mode Naruto is stronger than A. A, based on his feat, is barely a level 5 in strength.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And since his attacks are so easily noticeable, Minato should have no problem with them. And when teh Kunai are everywhere, Minato ports from point A to B without a care in the world. And even barring that, Minato is notably quite fast and has remarkable reaction time. FTG just makes him more of a menace.
His attacks are only noticeable if:
a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.
Him blitzing Sasuke (of all people) showed that he can in fact make his attacks unnoticeable, if not through trickery, then through sheer speed and 'agility'.
Minato only ports when he's in danger, or when he's about to make an attack. Putting a seal on Raikage is out, since I doubt he can touch him without getting shocked.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Which, there is the argument. Naruto's normal rasengan is just as strong as Sasuke's chidori, which actually did pierce the shroud. Minato's is comparably bigger and likely more powerful. It could very well tear the shroud up. Which is what the rasengan would do instead of piercing. And repeated uses of it could very well be damaging to Raikage, especially considering how quickly he can attack in succession and how quickly he can form the rasengan.Which again, Gamabunta. 😛
Yes, it pierced the shroud BECAUSE Chidori pierces stuff, and far better than Rasengan does. The Rasengan is akin to a powerful grinding punch, not a stabbing blade. The Rasengan never 'tore up' Madara, or any other person for that matter, so I doubt it could do that to the Raiton shroud.
Simply saying the Rasengan will damage the shroud because it matches up with the Chidori is faulty.
That said, it's hard to say how the shroud would react to Rasengan, because we haven't seen such a case. I suspect we'll see one in the next chapter.
On one hand, Chidori, one of the best penetrative type attacks (especially in the hands, no pun intended, of someone as fast as Sasuke), failed to significantly injure the Raikage. On the other hand, Amaterasu went through the shroud as if it weren't even there.
Meh, Raikage would just punch through Gama's brain awesome
That said, my money is actually on Minato for now, due to FTG, whereas the Raikage is pretty much a one-trick pony with incredible speed and reflexes. It just so happens that people seem to think that Minato is as fast as the Raikage when it comes to pure movement speed. 😐
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Feats of A's reaction time which wasn't due to any telegraphed attack would be nice.
I'd like some for Minato too.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, my interpretation of those words about A are this:1. It was an exaggeration about A's actual speed. They were just using a past legend to make a comparison to. Similar to B saying Naruto was ultra fast, like Minato, when he first used his mastered kyuubi chakra.
2. It was referring to the amped version of A.
2. No.
http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-462-page-3.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html
As for the anime:
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg?t=1306705444
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg?t=1306705444
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg?t=1306705446
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg?t=1306705448
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg?t=1306705451
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg?t=1306705452
~ C talks about Raikage's reflexes before mentioning the shroud, which means he was talking about his base state. He then makes note of the shroud amping the Raikage's reflexes to the point where even the Sharingan could not keep up.
He compared the Raikage to Minato before mentioning the shroud. Ergo, Raikage's reflexes and reaction speed in his base state are roughly equal to Minato's, but much superior to Minato's once the shroud is up.
You can take it to mean pure movement speed if you want, seeing as C talks about 'keeping up', but either way, it's Raikage (Raiton Shroud) >> Minato = Raikage (Base)
Yep...Minato wins pretty much because of FTG.
I wonder if that tech Minato used to teleport away the kyuubi blast would work on people instaed of attacks alone.
This might be off topic but why didn't A hit Sasuke again with the arm that was on fire? I mean, he had enough tolerance to ignore the pain so if he smacked him again, wouldn't Sasuke have to turn the flames off in order to not be burned by his own attack?
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His attacks are only noticeable if:a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.
Suigetsu noticed and reacted to his attack. 😮
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I'd like some for Minato too.
Kay. Here's two:
Minato reacts to an explosion while it is happening! He manages to toss a kunai and port to it. 😮
Kyuubi attacks Kushina! And Minato ports, gets her, and then either throws a kunai again or leaps really quickly. Need to be able to react like a bastard to do that.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Suigetsu noticed and reacted to his attack. 😮
But Suigetsu's easily upper tier when it comes to reactions and movement speed. 😮
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Kay. Here's two:Minato reacts to an explosion while it is happening! He manages to toss a kunai and port to it. 😮
Kyuubi attacks Kushina! And Minato ports, gets her, and then either throws a kunai again or leaps really quickly. Need to be able to react like a bastard to do that.
Sasuke's reacted to an explosion as well iirc, as has Madara, so reacting to paper tag explosions should be within A's capabilities.
I don't get the second one because I don't really see Minato porting to a kunai he threw. He simply jumps out of the house that he ported to.
But nice one with the Kyuubi attack. Never noticed that for some reason.
Sasuke tries to blitz Raikage, but he is able to quickly see Sasuke behind him
Raikage stops his attack as soon as he sees Amaterasu's flames around Susano'o
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
But Suigetsu's easily upper tier when it comes to reactions and movement speed. 😮
And Minato is superior to Suigetsu, agreed? :3
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasuke tries to blitz Raikage, but he is able to quickly see Sasuke behind him
Raikage stops his attack as soon as he sees Amaterasu's flames around Susano'o
Minato reacts to Madara from behind.
Minato and Kushina react to the Kyuubi while both are significantly weak.
Minato reacts to an attack on Kakashi, who is moving incredibly fast at the time.
Minato reacts to an attack on Obito.
Then proceeds to do the same for Kakashi.
Minato is unrivaled. awesome
Which, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. You think Minato wins! Which I agree. 😛
