Minato vs A

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
His attacks are only noticeable if:

a) He's charging straight at his opponent, who should have reflexes comparable to a Three Tomoe user or a CS2 user.
b) He is using his Level 1 Shroud.

Him blitzing Sasuke (of all people) showed that he can in fact make his attacks unnoticeable, if not through trickery, then through sheer speed and 'agility'.

Minato only ports when he's in danger, or when he's about to make an attack. Putting a seal on Raikage is out, since I doubt he can touch him without getting shocked.

Yes, it pierced the shroud BECAUSE Chidori pierces stuff, and far better than Rasengan does. The Rasengan is akin to a powerful grinding punch, not a stabbing blade. The Rasengan never 'tore up' Madara, or any other person for that matter, so I doubt it could do that to the Raiton shroud.
Simply saying the Rasengan will damage the shroud because it matches up with the Chidori is faulty.

That said, it's hard to say how the shroud would react to Rasengan, because we haven't seen such a case. I suspect we'll see one in the next chapter.
On one hand, Chidori, one of the best penetrative type attacks (especially in the hands, no pun intended, of someone as fast as Sasuke), failed to significantly injure the Raikage. On the other hand, Amaterasu went through the shroud as if it weren't even there.

Meh, Raikage would just punch through Gama's brain awesome

That said, my money is actually on Minato for now, due to FTG, whereas the Raikage is pretty much a one-trick pony with incredible speed and reflexes. It just so happens that people seem to think that Minato is as fast as the Raikage when it comes to pure movement speed. 😐

I'd like some for Minato too.

2. No.

http://manga.bleachexile.com/naruto-chapter-462-page-3.html
http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-462/page003.html

As for the anime:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes1.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes2.jpg?t=1306705444

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes3.jpg?t=1306705446

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes4.jpg?t=1306705448

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes5.jpg?t=1306705451

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/Rising_god_Phoenix/RaikageReflexes6.jpg?t=1306705452

~ C talks about Raikage's reflexes before mentioning the shroud, which means he was talking about his base state. He then makes note of the shroud amping the Raikage's reflexes to the point where even the Sharingan could not keep up.
He compared the Raikage to Minato before mentioning the shroud. Ergo, Raikage's reflexes and reaction speed in his base state are roughly equal to Minato's, but much superior to Minato's once the shroud is up.
You can take it to mean pure movement speed if you want, seeing as C talks about 'keeping up', but either way, it's Raikage (Raiton Shroud) >> Minato = Raikage (Base)

I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances*

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato is unrivaled. awesome

Oh, here's the justification for why Minato is a 5 in strength:
"Unrivaled strength." lol

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances*

If not, you don't actually know how debating works do you?

It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You are trolling right?

If not, you don't actually know how debating works do you?

If this is what you call a legitimate "rebuttal", you might want to go back to the drawing board. Come up with something other than "nuh uhhhh!" and "WAAAH! YOUZ TROLLIN'!" 😬

See below:

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

You seem to be under the impression that I actually give a shit about this thread.

But fact of the matter is, Aura DID give a legitimate response to that post. You, however, did not.

If you think they are wrong, tell them why, saying "NUH UH AI WEHN" is not actually an argument.

So please do not use Aura's post as some kind of way to defend yourself against my criticism of your inadequate post.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You seem to be under the impression that I actually give a shit about this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
But fact of the matter is, Aura DID give a legitimate response to that post. You, however, did not.

You wanted me to state what was already known when I clearly already stated it? (AKA, he already had the shroud on.)

More than "he already had the shroud on" is not necessary for the point that I countered which was "he did not have the shroud on." Images were already posted that showed that he had the shroud on.

Further discussion would be retarded, meaning, you can kindly cease the lame attempt to save face.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If you think they are wrong, tell them why, saying "NUH UH AI WEHN" is not actually an argument.

Think WHO are wrong? If you are responding to the topic I just responded to, above, read it and STFU.

Originally posted by NemeBro
So please do not use Aura's post as some kind of way to defend yourself against my criticism of your inadequate post.

Please do not pretend that I did not already address your complaint before you even had the complaint simply because you didn't read the thread because you don't "actually give a shit about this thread." 😐

The only thing Aura's post did was expand what we already knew and was established BEFORE your b*tch-feast.

Name dropping. cry

Originally posted by dadudemon
You wanted me to state what was already known when I clearly already stated it? (AKA, he already had the shroud on.)

More than "he already had the shroud on" is not necessary for the point that I countered which was "he did not have the shroud on." Images were already posted that showed that he had the shroud on.

Further discussion would be retarded, meaning, you can kindly cease the lame attempt to save face.

Think WHO are wrong? If you are responding to the topic I just responded to, above, read it and STFU.

Please do not pretend that I did not already address your complaint before you even had the complaint simply because you didn't read the thread because you don't "actually give a shit about this thread." 😐

The only thing Aura's post did was expand what we already knew and was established BEFORE your b*tch-feast.

2. Only yes, it very much is, since the statement "Raikage=Yellow Flash blahblah" is, according to DP's evidence and argument, referring to him without the shroud. That said, I don't really agree with his evidence, but I also disagree with your "method" of disproving it. Quite frankly I am surprised no one has pointed out the obvious: C is a fallible character.

3. Save face from what? Me calling you out on your method of "debate?" The one you use ALL the time? "HAHA YER WRAUNG I WIN." It's not like this is the first time you have done this either, so don't sit there and pretend your method of arguing was legit, it was not.

4. No, it was necessary. "LOL HE ALREADY HAD SHROUD UP I IS WINNAR" is not an argument. "He had the shroud up the entire fight, Sasuke and his asspals only were keeping up with him using Lightning Release Armour," that would have actually been an argument.

5. Only I did read the thread.

6. No no, see my friend, you simply need to learn to post better. 🙂 In your arrogance you believe your post to have been adequate, it wasn't.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Keep in mind Sasuke's one of the really fast ninja around to start with.

Lightning shroud makes him "faster than a really fast ninja like Sasuke with sharingan, but still can be reacted to." Charged-lightning shroud makes even someone like that flatfooted.

Minato is faster than Sasuke.

Suigetsu can react to A.

Minato is probably able to react if Suigetsu can. 😮

meh, it's not like sasuke hasn't reacted to linear attacks before; he did so with the super fast bee as well, but when the latter started doing erratic movements sasuke was up shit creek using his tongue as a paddle.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
And Minato is superior to Suigetsu, agreed? :3

Not unless Minato gains a big-f***ing-sword, and the ability to pump up his arms instantaneously. awesome

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Minato reacts to Madara from behind.

Minato and Kushina react to the Kyuubi while both are significantly weak.

Minato reacts to an attack on Kakashi, who is moving incredibly fast at the time.

Minato reacts to an attack on Obito.

Then proceeds to do the same for Kakashi.

Minato is unrivaled. awesome

Which, I don't know why I'm arguing with you. You think Minato wins! Which I agree. 😛

1. Madara is moving too slow.
2. So was the Kyuubi 313
3. He's reacting to the speed of the kunais, not Kakashi.
4. Pretty good, but not as impressive as Darui reacting to an attack on Raikage by Sasuke313
5. 'Telegraphed' by the fool's shout. That said, if that wasn't FTG, it would be a very impressive speed feat.
6. Damn. Can't argue with this. BUT:
White Zetsu already knows about Madara's teleportation 'speed', but is completely surprised by Raikage's speed. Clearly, Raikage is FTL and unrivaled in speed. awesome

Raikage moves faster than Sasuke's ability to see through low-level genjutsu
Raikage reacts at the same time as Sasuke who reacted as fast as Itachi did who later reacted to Lightning, while weakened.
vin

Arguing for the sake of arguing?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am 100% correct: A ALREADY has the raiton armor on.

Since I win...what now?

*does the pwn dance...which is similar to how a retarded white man dances*

Yes, A already has the Raiton shroud on, but that is irrelevant to the Minato-A reflex argument as C states that Raikage's reflexes were comparable to Minato's, and this is BEFORE he mentioned the shroud.
After that comparison, he goes on to state that the shroud augmented his reflexes.
Then there's the fact that the Raikage can amp up his shroud even further to increase his reflexes. So either way, it works out to Raikage being superior to Minato in terms of reflexes as far as C is concerned.

Whether or not he's right is another matter entirely, and one I'm not going to concern myself with, seeing as we have currently have no way to determine if he actually has seen Minato in action (or talked to someone who has seen both Minato & A in action, like Killerbee) or is basing it on basic knowledge.

I would think at the very least, Charged-shroud A would be able to react to and fight with Minato.

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
It is actually conflicting though.

What he says doesn't make sense. He is in the shroud and people react to him just fine. Was he ever not in the shroud during the fight?

I mean yeah, when he steps it up to the point where his hair stands up it becomes damn near impossible to react, but that isn't until later. Sasuke shows himself perfectly able to react to A when he has the shroud on.

Come to think of it, a lot of what C says is weird to me.

Or we're looking at this in the wrong way?
For intstance, Minato & Raikage have comparable refexes, and the guys in Taka (Suigetsu & Juugo, seeing as Sasuke never really reacted to A before this statement) have somethingh close to this level?
This was just after the Raikage had stated that the Sharingan was nothing to him, which was after Sasuke had tried to trap him in a genjutsu.

That said, yeah, C is fallible, but we don't know what he's basing his statement on (concerning Minato & Raikage), and seeing as it is Kishi's only comment on the matter so far, it should have some weight.

EDIT: Also, his stance may have changed after the fight..especially after seeing Sasuke react to Raikage's elbow.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
1. Madara is moving too slow.
2. So was the Kyuubi 313
3. He's reacting to the speed of the kunais, not Kakashi.
4. Pretty good, but not as impressive as Darui reacting to an attack on Raikage by Sasuke313
5. 'Telegraphed' by the fool's shout. That said, if that wasn't FTG, it would be a very impressive speed feat.
6. Damn. Can't argue with this. BUT:
White Zetsu already knows about Madara's teleportation 'speed', but is completely surprised by Raikage's speed. Clearly, Raikage is FTL and unrivaled in speed. awesome

1. To your untrained eye,
2. He was fueled with Rage/Hatred.
3. And throws them faster than Kakashi can run. 😛
4. Sasuke was going slow.
5. I don't think it was personally. 😛
6. I cannot get the images. 😮

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Raikage moves faster than Sasuke's ability to see through low-level genjutsu
Raikage reacts at the same time as Sasuke who reacted as fast as Itachi did who later reacted to Lightning, while weakened.
vin

Sasuke was planning something so he waited.

Itachi was not trying his hardest against Sasuke. 😛

Hi Aura. :3

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
1. To your untrained eye,
2. He was fueled with Rage/Hatred.
3. And throws them faster than Kakashi can run. 😛
4. Sasuke was going slow.
5. I don't think it was personally. 😛
6. I cannot get the images. 😮

1. Proof that my eye is untrained? Madara is moving slow, just like I said, so if any eye is untrained, tis yours old chap.
2. He's always been fueled with Rage/Hatred, and constantly been made to look second-best.
3. So Kunai > Kakashi.
4. He's far faster than Madara and that Iwa ninja.
5. Hmm...I do.
6. Keep trying, you should be able to get those images if you got the others.
Otherwise, Chap. 396 p.7 & Chap. 460 p.3

313

Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Sasuke was planning something so he waited.

Itachi was not trying his hardest against Sasuke. 😛

Nah, Sasuke doesn't like being caught in genjutsu, so he wouldn't plan anything during that.

Madara was lying about that. 😛

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hi Aura. :3

Damn, now he's going to get sentimental, seeing as you used his name.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hi Aura. :3

*Feels accepted*

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
1. Proof that my eye is untrained? Madara is moving slow, just like I said, so if any eye is untrained, tis yours old chap.
2. He's always been fueled with Rage/Hatred, and constantly been made to look second-best.
3. So Kunai > Kakashi.
4. He's far faster than Madara and that Iwa ninja.
5. Hmm...I do.
6. Keep trying, you should be able to get those images if you got the others.
Otherwise, Chap. 396 p.7 & Chap. 460 p.3

313

1. It's yours?
2. Sorta like A. vin
3. Minato's Kunai anyway. 😛
4. Not when Jugo can speak a full sentence while Sasuke is running.
5. The reason I don't is because Rin is using her thought bubble describing it later. 😮
6. I knew which chapters anyway. And nah. Zetsu can still be surprised by the speed without it being lightspeed. And Minato is still unrivaled.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Nah, Sasuke doesn't like being caught in genjutsu, so he wouldn't plan anything during that.

Madara was lying about that. 😛

He likes toying with his enemies.

Maybe Madara is lying about you?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Damn, now he's going to get sentimental, seeing as you used his name.

Yep. cry

What a sissy.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. He did have it on. Yet that does not disprove the point DP was making.

2. Only yes, it very much is, since the statement "Raikage=Yellow Flash blahblah" is, according to DP's evidence and argument, referring to him without the shroud. That said, I don't really agree with his evidence, but I also disagree with your "method" of disproving it. Quite frankly I am surprised no one has pointed out the obvious: C is a fallible character.

3. Save face from what? Me calling you out on your method of "debate?" The one you use ALL the time? "HAHA YER WRAUNG I WIN." It's not like this is the first time you have done this either, so don't sit there and pretend your method of arguing was legit, it was not.

4. No, it was necessary. "LOL HE ALREADY HAD SHROUD UP I IS WINNAR" is not an argument. "He had the shroud up the entire fight, Sasuke and his asspals only were keeping up with him using Lightning Release Armour," that would have actually been an argument.

5. Only I did read the thread.

6. No no, see my friend, you simply need to learn to post better. 🙂 In your arrogance you believe your post to have been adequate, it wasn't.

Cry harder, please. Just fess up that you did not realize what I was saying and deal. This entire argument hinges on you not reading or understanding things that occurred, prior, in the thread. No need to try and save face any further, on your part.

The simple fact that AA knew exactly what I was talking about proves that you are the odd man out, on this one. It is "your arrogance" that prevents you from admitting this.

1. Still doesn't change what I said abou the subject, overall. Do I REALLY have to quote where it was said he didn't have it on?

2. He did have the shroud, end of. It's the difference between level 1 and 2 that is in question, of which, I never addressed nor will I ever as it's impossible to determine how things stack up.

3. Nice: instead of addressing the point, you try and turn it back on me with a point you've already made and I've already addressed. Try harder to not talk in circles.

4. Let me show you how silly this point is: ZOMG! LIEK, U TOE TALL EE DID NOT EVEN SAY DIS B 4! YOU SHOULD BE CLEARER! DUR The fact that I never argued against that point is irrelevent you A fanboy. 😐

5. Den moar comprehensions on ur part, pleez.

6. Addressed this already: I am serious when I say, "no u."