Originally posted by juggerman
Not according to screen feats
You mean not according to your subjective standards. Drago was outright stated to have superhuman strength, hell, we're even given a computer visual, and was literally knocking Rocky off his feet. Your only stance for Clubber is that Rocky (arguably) blocked against him more than he did Drago. That one little detail does not supersede everything we're told and shown in the following films. Clubber outranking Drago in punching power is utterly ridiculous and actually contradicts the fourth film.
Originally posted by Lestov16
You mean not according to your subjective standards. Drago was outright stated to have superhuman strength, hell, we're even given a computer visual, and was literally knocking Rocky off his feet. Your [b]only stance for Clubber is that Rocky (arguably) blocked against him more than he did Drago. That one little detail does not supersede everything we're told and shown in the following films. Clubber outranking Drago in punching power is utterly ridiculous and actually contradicts the fourth film. [/B]
Him blocking and dodging more is outright fact. Him being able to take Dragos hits while he could not take Clubbers is also fact. Those are not "little details" at all.
Im not trying to take anything away from Drago. He was definitely superhuman due to the drugs. And he also has Clubber in every single category except punching power. It contradicts nothing as the forth film does not state he has superior punching power to everyone or that he is the hardest striker in the world. It says that he punches much much harder than the "average boxer". Clubber is not average
Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm certain you won't mind kindly explaining to me how the phuck any of Clubber's hits were as powerful as the one that launched Rocky into the air.
If you're talking about the hit in the first round that sent Rocky flying then watch it again. Rocky was knocked down and was getting up when Drago hit him. He was off-balance and Drago's punch pushed him back. Want me to post it?
I'll chime in and say that I agree with the majority of the posters here. Sorry Jugs.
The reason being that Rocky was able to down Lang in under 3 rounds when focused. Lang didn't have the staying power, nor did he have Drago's raw punching power.
Rocky had to endure gruelling training to build up enough stamina to challenge Drago. Drago's far superior stamina, staying power, and raw strength made Rocky fight for a gruelling 15 rounds before the bigger guy began to tire and faulter.
The point is, Rocky was able to endure both, but had to undergo additional endurance training to survive the fight with Ivan, this is a testament to Rocky's durability, not Lang's punching power. If we were to compare every individual hit Lang landed on Rocky, and compare it to each individual hit Drago managed to land, you can see that Drago's actual impact force is considerably higher than Lang's.
Not to mention that Rocky sustained brain damage from the fight with Ivan.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'll chime in and say that I agree with the majority of the posters here. Sorry Jugs.The reason being that Rocky was able to down Lang in under 3 rounds when focused. Lang didn't have the staying power, nor did he have Drago's raw punching power.
Rocky had to endure gruelling training to build up enough stamina to challenge Drago. Drago's far superior stamina, staying power, and raw strength made Rocky fight for a gruelling 15 rounds before the bigger guy began to tire and faulter.
The point is, Rocky was able to endure both, but had to undergo additional endurance training to survive the fight with Ivan, this is a testament to Rocky's durability, not Lang's punching power. If we were to compare every individual hit Lang landed on Rocky, and compare it to each individual hit Drago managed to land, you can see that Drago's actual impact force is considerably higher than Lang's.
Not to mention that Rocky sustained brain damage from the fight with Ivan.
Damn you DSZ I thought we were friends!
I agree he didn't have the stamina since he was gassed in the 3rd round. But Rocky never needed to dodge Drago as he did Lang
Again I agree Drago was the total package. Lang only had his strength to rely on
Rocky trained hard for Lang and had to adopt a whole new fighting style to win. With Drago he just brawled away and never had an issue taking his hits. Lets compare Rocky's reactions to their hits. 1st one he had to adjust his approach to8 avoid getting hit. 2nd one he just ate the punches without too much difficulty.
Yeah he got brain damage. Drago is a monster. But he could never engage Lang like he did Drago.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'll chime in and say that I agree with the majority of the posters here. Sorry Jugs.The reason being that Rocky was able to down Lang in under 3 rounds when focused. Lang didn't have the staying power, nor did he have Drago's raw punching power.
Rocky had to endure gruelling training to build up enough stamina to challenge Drago. Drago's far superior stamina, staying power, and raw strength made Rocky fight for a gruelling 15 rounds before the bigger guy began to tire and faulter.
The point is, Rocky was able to endure both, but had to undergo additional endurance training to survive the fight with Ivan, this is a testament to Rocky's durability, not Lang's punching power. If we were to compare every individual hit Lang landed on Rocky, and compare it to each individual hit Drago managed to land, you can see that Drago's actual impact force is considerably higher than Lang's.
Not to mention that Rocky sustained brain damage from the fight with Ivan.
But but but but...Clubber was played by Mr T 🙁
Originally posted by juggerman
Damn you DSZ I thought we were friends!I agree he didn't have the stamina since he was gassed in the 3rd round. But Rocky never needed to dodge Drago as he did Lang
Again I agree Drago was the total package. Lang only had his strength to rely on
Rocky trained hard for Lang and had to adopt a whole new fighting style to win. With Drago he just brawled away and never had an issue taking his hits. Lets compare Rocky's reactions to their hits. 1st one he had to adjust his approach to8 avoid getting hit. 2nd one he just ate the punches without too much difficulty.
Yeah he got brain damage. Drago is a monster. But he could never engage Lang like he did Drago.
The point being is that Rocky had to do another years worth of training to cope with Drago than he did with Lang.
Trust me when I say this, if you can build up your endurance and stamina the way Rocky did in 4, you could walk through Clubber, that was the point. The comparative between the two opponents was that Clubber Lang was a brawling Wildman, while Drago is a king hit machine. Drago's training is far more refined than Lang's, and it focused on endurance and punching power.
Drago had the overall superior skill set, along with a large body built for overwhelming offence in single moves, while Langs is more of a flurry of fast punches designed to break through defences. He had power, but not the single hit killshots Drago had access to.
The lynchpin of using Rocky as a comparison is simply flawed because Rocky got an extra years worth of training between the fight with Lang and the fight with Drago. The only other lynchpin that could be used is Apollo Creed, and we know who flattened him out more decisively.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The point being is that Rocky had to do another years worth of training to cope with Drago than he did with Lang.Trust me when I say this, if you can build up your endurance and stamina the way Rocky did in 4, you could walk through Clubber, that was the point. The comparative between the two opponents was that Clubber Lang was a brawling Wildman, while Drago is a king hit machine. Drago's training is far more refined than Lang's, and it focused on endurance and punching power.
Drago had the overall superior skill set, along with a large body built for overwhelming offence in single moves, while Langs is more of a flurry of fast punches designed to break through defences. He had power, but the single hit killshots Drago had access to.
The lynchpin of using Rocky as a comparison is simply flawed because Rocky got an extra years worth of training between the fight with Lang and the fight with Drago. The only other lynchpin that could be used is Apollo Creed, and we know who flattened him out more decisively.
And he went back to his brawling nature.
It wasn't refined tho. He went from a technically sound fighter and reverted right back to a brawler. To a guy that blocks and dodges to a guy that seems to try to get punched in the face as much as possible.
This I agree with. As I said Drago was the total package
Well Clubber never fought Creed so we can't use him at all. Rocky is the only comparison we have. Rocky took Drago's hardest hits for 15 rounds and was fine enough to win. He couldn't take Clubber's for a single round before he needed to adjust his approach and tire Lang out. Rocky's head was not harder in 4 as far as I know so the only conclusion we have is that Drago, while he hits ridiculously hard, did not hit as hard as Lang
Originally posted by Psychotron
Things like Drago's vastly superior stamina and damage soak? Things like the fact that Rocky did tank Clubber's hits in their rematch far easier than Drago's? Things like the mitigating circumstances in Rocky's loss?
I actually addressed all these things. If you're too lazy to go back and look here are the cliff notes:
1. I admitted Drago had superior stamina like 6 times. I didn't outright say he had more damage soak but I did say he has Clubber in ever other category.
2. That's just a lie and has been explained over and over again. He ate Drago's punches. He had to block and dodge Clubber's
3. I never brought up or even debated about the 1st fight where Rocky lost
Originally posted by juggerman
2. That's just a lie and has been explained over and over again. He ate Drago's punches. He had to block and dodge Clubber's3. I never brought up or even debated about the 1st fight where Rocky lost
Go and watch the second round of their fight. Rocky was tanking Lang's shots with his face. It's also worth pointing out that Rocky did a fair amount of bobbing and weaving against Drago too.
Well, it's pretty important. That's the only time Lang's hits actually effected Rocky.