Originally posted by Galan007They're the same scene, only the context in which they take place is different.
Also, you keep comparing that scene to A/S Superman. That is a false distinction, imo. A/S Supes pressed up vastly inferior weight(200 quintillion tons) ONE TIME during his series, while he was at the PEAK of his power. New Supes lifted vastly MORE weight(nearly 6 sextillion tons) for FIVE straight days, while WEAKER than normal. Just because both scenes were being monitored by scientific equipment, doesn't mean they're the same level of stupid. Furthermore, A/S Supes was an ALTERNATE version of the character, of whom Morrison outright said he'd be painting in a 'Silver Age light'.
Here, Superman just got his ass beat by Helspont [there, Superman underwent an amp]. In order to see where he stands he tests his limts [in both cases] using a scientifical equipment [in both cases] build by the resident high-end scientist [in both cases, here this chick, there Leo Quintum], the measurements is immense [in both cases] while not being able to find an upper limit [in both cases]. This scene is a blatant homage to All-Star Superman.
The butthurt seems to stem from the fact that one feat [the more recent one] is considerably superior to the other, so it's automatically childish. Because All-Star was supposed to be peak-power Superman and a homage to Silver Age, dammit!
Please.
Originally posted by Galan007Being capable of bench-pressing the Earth doesn't cheapen him, the same way being able to move half the Earth didn't beforehand. Or how being able to contain a blackhole in his palm didn't. Or the other, ahem, childish feats he did, haven't.The only thing it does is make you butthurt and painfully hypocritical. We'll get the latter in a moment (though the All-Star double standard part already covered much of it)
Listen, you like the feat. You think it makes sense. That's great. I believe it is dumb, and cheapens Superman tremendously. DC got away from Silver Age cheese like that with COIE... Now they've started heading in that direction again. Kind of funny, I think.
Originally posted by Galan007You think Superman, using scientific equipment [i.e. not doing Silver Agey chain dragging or palm pushing] to measure his strength at above planet moving, is more ridiculous than going through blackholes and then going through slugfests; or through suns; cutting planets in half with axes or energy attacks?
Ah, now this is the deflection/backlash I expected from you (and abhil, most likely.) Every feat you mentioned is a feat MANY heralds have been preforming for DECADES. Had Superman have preformed one of the feats you listed, I, personally, wouldn't have thought much of it-- I'd think: "Cool. He's back at his pre-reboot levels." Why? Because there are a lot more, and a lot better, ways to show the readers that Superman is getting stronger, without making said feats lulz-worthy comedy.
And what is your argument for this?
"All of those happened before, but this is new, and I don't like it so BZZZZ childish!!"
😂
You're like a kid, who is mad the other kid has a nicer toy car. Jesus.
Hilarious, Galan.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, coming from the guy who just said: "If there's a comic book that'd ever get me to masturbate, it would be this one"-- I find the latter part of your statement... Ironic, to say the least. 👆
What's ironic about it? I'm not the one using double standards.
I'm up front: I love the shit out of this feat, since it's the best feat Superman has had ever since Pre-Crisis.
The sooner you admit your butthurt, the sooner the double-standards and hypocritical "going through blackholes and blowing up planets is ok, but having your strength measured by a scientific equipment as being able to move them isn't, it's childish!", the sooner my respect your forum opinions won't drop like a rock.
Ah, there's what I was waiting for: the inevitable name calling and flaming. Phil's mantra, these days. I can't/won't be bothered with it.
Anyway, I don't know why you think I'm "butthurt" about this feat..? I could honestly care less (though it will be funny to see you guys squirm when Superman inevitably struggles with decisively less than planet-level forces.) The fact that I think the feat was made to appeal to youngsters, and fanboys (which it has, apparently) =/= me being "butthurt" by it. But hey, you have to insult where you can insult. I understand. 👆
If you disagree, I could [also] care less. Sorry that I'm not as enthused about the feat as you are... I'm just looking past the novelty, is all. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007You mean like Silver Age Superman did, too? Aswell as every other high-powered character? Cute. I've been reading comics long enough to see that's how they work. Maybe you should catch up, too.
though it will be funny to see you guys squirm when Superman inevitably struggles with decisively less than planet-level forces
Originally posted by Galan007I'm calling what I see it. I'm not insulting you, I'm telling you what you're showing me.
Ah, there's what I was waiting for: the inevitable name calling and flaming. Phil's mantra, these days. I can't/won't be bothered with it.
Originally posted by Galan007Just the last page you were basically "OH NOES **** DC DON'T DO THIS!!".
Anyway, I don't know why you think I'm "butthurt" about this feat..? I could honestly care less
Have a good day, Galan.
Originally posted by HueyFreemanSo it's okay for All-Star to do it, because it's an homage to Hercules (why does that take out the ridiculousness?), but it's not okay for it to happen here, eventough it's a homage to All-Star Superman?
[B]Did you think it was retarded in All-Star Superman?All star was a metaphor for one of hercules's twelve labors. The whole series was written as if it was "the legend of superman". This seems very dragonball z ish. [/B]
Originally posted by Philosophía...Because that's exactly what I said, right?
Just the last page you were basically "OH NOES **** DC DON'T DO THIS!!".
Again: there's no reason to get so defensive. You think the feat itself is awesome, and I think it's idiotic. Opinions... They are a wonderful thing.
Originally posted by HueyFreemanI think he's using A/S Superman to justify why new Supes preforming the feat is cool and logical.
[B]Did you think it was retarded in All-Star Superman?All star was a metaphor for one of hercules's twelve labors. The whole series was written as if it was "the legend of superman". This seems very dragonball z ish. [/B]
...Even though the feats themselves are, like, VASTLY different.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaFirst for the simple fact all star was never meant to be an ongoing series. It was the "last trials of superman, " which is why they were referenced as a peak superman. This reeks of the before mentioned dbz battles where it was
So it's okay for All-Star to do it, because it's an homage to Hercules (why does that take out the ridiculousness?), but it's not okay for it to happen here, eventough it's a homage to All-Star Superman?
Feats like this are why the crisis was necessary in the first place. There not really sustainable in an ongoing and tend to hurt the character more than help in the long run.
Originally posted by HueyFreemanWhy does All-Star not being an on-going mean that the feat is any less ridiculous? Just because we wouldn't see that version of Superman again after the 12 issues? What kind of justification is that?
First for the simple fact all star was never meant to be an ongoing series. It was the "last trials of superman. " This reeks of the before mentioned dbz battles where it was
dbz character 1- Im stronger than you
dbz character 2 - No Im stronger
dbz character 1- well Im really holding back
dbz character 2 - so am I
dbz character 1 - well Im only using 25% percent of my power.
dbz character 2- Im only using 1 %Feats like this are why the crisis was necessary in the first place. There not really sustainable in an ongoing and tend to hurt the character more than help in the long run.
You're really going out of the field with the Dragonball Z comparison. This didn't compare him with anyone. This wasn't even a power-up. There's literally nothing here that has anything to do with what you just posted there on DBZ. This was simply, mirroring All-Star, him testing his current strength levels.
Feats like this aren't really different, when looked in perspective, to Superman pre-Flashpoint providing at least half of the Earth moving strength. Or him containing a blackhole in his palm. Or whatever. In both cases, it implies that he should roflstomp his way through his every other challenge - functionally, there is no difference between the situations.
Should I say Surfer going through the sun, or through a blackhole, or any high-herald feat with ridiculous implications means that the companies need reboot and is in need of depowering?
I love how everybody is judging Superman in a vacuum, as if he's the only guy pulling powerful feats. But when Hulk and Surfer and whomever get brought up, they get ignored and are basically "it's alright when THEY do it! I just don't want what Superman did for him to do!".
Double-standards are a biitch.
If someone thinks the feat itself is absurd or stupid, it doesn't mean they hate Superman or hate that Superman accomplished it.
You can like or dislike the feat without it changing your opinion about Superman. And you can certainly criticize the feat or comic in general without being accused of hating Superman or being butt hurt about it. Or at least you should be able to.
Personally, I do like the absurdity of the feat - and it is downright ridiculous when you look at it - and a part of me hopes the writers have enough imagination and talent to be able to write him at a level where, physically, he's consistently operating at a higher tier and have the threats reflect that. But, I have extreme doubts this will be nothing more than a spectacular high end feat for Superman and we'll see him struggle (likely before the end of the year) with an opponent or task that's not close to planetary level strength.
I certainly don't hate Superman or hate his feats for thinking that way.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankThat will happen. And it has happened to every character who pulled feats like these. Incuding Silver Age Superman. Why is only Superman held to such a standard? 'Oh, he better show he is planet-mover every issue from now on, or this doesn't matter'. Why aren't all of Surfer's feats or Gladiator's feats ignored, just because of what happens after those high feats? Why aren't Thor's? Because you like them more.
But, I have extreme doubts this will be nothing more than a spectacular high end feat for Superman and we'll see him struggle (likely before the end of the year) with an opponent or task that's not close to planetary level strength.
I'd have no objection on calling this feat ridiculous - but call every other feats of this class ridiculous. Don't jerk off to them in other threads (see the Beta Ray Bill example). Don't say, in this same damn thread, that they are 'ok, because they've been seen before' but this isn't, because you say so (and I'm not talking to you, directly).
I'm asking for consistency. Otherwise, all that's left are biased, double standards hypocritical fanboys. And that's f*cking sad.
Originally posted by Philosophía
That will happen. And it has happened to every character who pulled feats like these. Incuding Silver Age Superman. Why is only Superman held to such a standard? 'Oh, he better show he is planet-mover every issue from now on, or this doesn't matter'.I'd have no objection on calling this feat ridiculous - but call every other feats of this class ridiculous. Don't jerk off to them in other threads (see the Beta Ray Bill example). Don't say, in this same damn thread, that they are 'ok, because they've been seen before' but this isn't, because you say so (and I'm not talking to you, directly).
I'm asking for consistency. Otherwise, all that's left are biased, double standards hypocritical fanboys. And that's f*cking sad.
I think the problem is that some posters - not you as you outright said otherwise - more or less lose their cookies when it comes to new and impressive feats and then use said feats as a mean to override everything that came before it as the new "status in canon".
To me it's quite literally bizarre for people to see this feat and then claim that Superman now solos everyone on Marvel Earth or at least four of their most powerful beings physically and then indirectly apply said feat to Darkseid and other beings such as Helspont. It completely warps their status to a level that, personally at least to me, doesn't quite make sense. It was the same thing when Heart of the Monster came out and people argued that Hulk is now typically capable of vaporizing planets with a single blow and not even directly touching them.
Same thing with pretty low end feats for that matter, too. (ie. Thanos).
The only sane thing is to take new feats and attempt to "average" them in with a character's overall formidability in a way that doesn't make a single comic/feat completely take precedence over common sense and general portrayal.
If people did that, we hardly wouldn't have any issues. But because we don't, we have this weird "living by the week" sort of mentality when it comes to feats/battleboard discussions where the next comic that comes out immediately cancels out everything before it, good or bad. To that end, Superman isn't the only guy who gets effected by that fickle reasoning.
Averaging it out. Great. I'm all for that. [though, Helspont owning Superman happened the issue right before this feat, under the same writer; and in this issue, it mentions his training and limit testing happens as a direct consequence of that. Suffice to say, we can definitely peg Helspont as being able to do that shit to planet bench-pressing Superman, because he actually did it; not the same for Darkseid, though, at least for now - he fought a younger Superman there, under another writer]
But the problem I have is not necesarilly with the averaging - I have with the hypocritical attitude. When Superman pulls something like this "DC is ruining everything" or "Superman is now too overpowered, what a piece of shit!" or "he better do that shit every time". When Beta Ray Bill plows through planets "how cool" and it's basically the only arc mentioned in battleboards. When Surfer does "that's awesome". What the fu*k is this shit? Hulk almost gets the same treatment as Superman, but that's mostly because this forum hates his guts. On others he gets treated different.
Like I said, consistency. If you call this feat "childish character ruining scene", then be consistent about it, and say that every feat of this ridiculous magnitude is the same. Don't go around saying "the others are ok, but I don't like this one, it's stupid!". Because that's hypocritical. There's no two ways around it.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaIt does make sense because the story doesnt have to continue the trend. This feat is going to lead to large levels of inconsistancy with his strength(especially his lifting strength) . The fact that he hasnt been in the sun in a while adds to the over the tops ridiculousness of it all. Hes depowered at this point.
Why does All-Star not being an on-going mean that the feat is any less ridiculous? Just because we wouldn't see that version of Superman again after the 12 issues? What kind of justification is that?You're really going out of the field with the Dragonball Z comparison. This didn't compare him with anyone. This wasn't even a power-up. There's literally nothing here that has anything to do with what you just posted there on DBZ. This was simply, mirroring All-Star, him testing his current strength levels.
Feats like this aren't really different, when looked in perspective, to Superman pre-Flashpoint providing at least half of the Earth moving strength. Or him containing a blackhole in his palm. Or whatever. In both cases, it implies that he should roflstomp his way through his every other challenge - functionally, there is no difference between the situations.
Should I say Surfer going through the sun, or through a blackhole, or any high-herald feat with ridiculous implications means that the companies need reboot and is in need of depowering?
I love how everybody is judging Superman in a vacuum, as if he's the only guy pulling powerful feats. But when Hulk and Surfer and whomever get brought up, they get ignored and are basically "it's alright when THEY do it! I just don't want what Superman did for him to do!".
Double-standards are a biitch.
And how often is silver surfer in a good ongoing? And hulk well .....Hulk sucks so I really dont care if he lifts the multiverse above his head or if he struggles with a car. I actually like superman .
Originally posted by Galan007
You're acting like I'm "teh mad Superman hata!!111!!!1!" just because I think this particular feat was made for pre-pubescent boys, and/or berserker Superman fanboys-- this is false. I've always liked Superman (I've debated for him many-a-time), but imo the feat IS childish and cheesy. Sorry my opinion is offending you, but I feel how I feel.Also, you keep comparing that scene to A/S Superman. That is a false distinction, imo. A/S Supes pressed up vastly inferior weight(200 quintillion tons) ONE TIME during his series, while he was at the PEAK of his power. New Supes lifted vastly MORE weight(nearly 6 sextillion tons) for FIVE straight days, while WEAKER than normal. Just because both scenes were being monitored by scientific equipment, doesn't mean they're the same level of stupid. Furthermore, A/S Supes was an ALTERNATE version of the character, of whom Morrison outright said he'd be painting in a 'Silver Age light'.
Listen, you like the feat. You think it makes sense. That's great. I believe it is dumb, and cheapens Superman tremendously. DC got away from Silver Age cheese like that with COIE... Now they've started heading in that direction again. Kind of funny, I think. 👆
Ah, now this is the deflection/backlash I expected from you (and abhil, most likely.) Every feat you mentioned is a feat MANY heralds have been preforming for DECADES. Had Superman have preformed one of the feats you listed, I, personally, wouldn't have thought much of it-- I'd think: "Cool. He's back at his pre-reboot levels." Why? Because there are a lot more, and a lot better, ways to show the readers that Superman is getting stronger, without making said feats lulz-worthy comedy.
...But instead they opted to have him sit there bench pressing the weight-equivalent of a planet... For 5 straight days... While weaker than normal... That is dumb. Give Odin... Hell, give Galactus the same feat, and I'd STILL think it is dumb. The feat itself is purely moronic.
Anyway, coming from the guy who just said: "If there's a comic book that'd ever get me to masturbate, it would be this one"-- I find the latter part of your statement... Ironic, to say the least. 👆
The day I say it's "cool" that a character can bench press a planet for 5 straight days, is the day you can say I have a double standard. Until then, you're just deflecting. It upsets you that I think the feat is idiotic and childish, and you think it's 'teh awesomest'.
Differing opinions are what make KMC tick. Don't take it so personally. 😉
👆
It's a feat simply for being a feat. It doesn't progress the story in anyway, it is simply there to show that Superman is the strongest one there is. This just serves the fans and weakens the story. At least in AS Superman it had a point: "you are more powerful than ever - however, that same fact is killing you".
And yes, the medium is comics so I've come to accept that things like this happen on a common basis. Doesn't change facts.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If someone thinks the feat itself is absurd or stupid, it doesn't mean they hate Superman or hate that Superman accomplished it.You can like or dislike the feat without it changing your opinion about Superman. And you can certainly criticize the feat or comic in general without being accused of hating Superman or being butt hurt about it. Or at least you should be able to.
I certainly don't hate Superman or hate his feats for thinking that way.
I don't care who did it. I like Superman. And while I do think some of his other feats are even more ridiculous (blackhole in hand, rubbing hands to seal rifts, etc) and this just shows us, again, that Superman is physically superior to everyone, I don't think it serves a greater part of a story. It's just a wanking of numbers.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank👆
If someone thinks the feat itself is absurd or stupid, it doesn't mean they hate Superman or hate that Superman accomplished it.You can like or dislike the feat without it changing your opinion about Superman. And you can certainly criticize the feat or comic in general without being accused of hating Superman or being butt hurt about it. Or at least you should be able to.
Personally, I do like the absurdity of the feat - and it is downright ridiculous when you look at it - and a part of me hopes the writers have enough imagination and talent to be able to write him at a level where, physically, he's consistently operating at a higher tier and have the threats reflect that. But, I have extreme doubts this will be nothing more than a spectacular high end feat for Superman and we'll see him struggle (likely before the end of the year) with an opponent or task that's not close to planetary level strength.
I certainly don't hate Superman or hate his feats for thinking that way.
I like Superman. Always have. Me thinking the feat is childish and stupid has NOTHING to do with Superman. ANY character could have preformed the feat, and I'd think it was just as stupid. Superman just happened to be the [un]lucky recipient of said feat.
Originally posted by Blair WindAgreed.
👆It's a feat simply for being a feat. It doesn't progress the story in anyway, it is simply there to show that Superman is the strongest one there is. This just serves the fans and weakens the story. At least in AS Superman it had a point: "you are more powerful than ever - however, that same fact is killing you".
And yes, the medium is comics so I've come to accept that things like this happen on a common basis. Doesn't change facts.
I don't care who did it. I like Superman. And while I do think some of his other feats are even more ridiculous (blackhole in hand, rubbing hands to seal rifts, etc) and this just shows us, again, that Superman is physically superior to everyone, I don't think it serves a greater part of a story. It's just a wanking of numbers.