Originally posted by Galan007
Christ, it's like the comic was written specifically for 12 year old kids, and/or berserker fanboys.Idiotic crap like that is what's slowly, but surely, killing new DC for me. 👇
Originally posted by Blair Wind
👆It's a feat simply for being a feat. It doesn't progress the story in anyway, it is simply there to show that Superman is the strongest one there is. This just serves the fans and weakens the story. At least in AS Superman it had a point: "you are more powerful than ever - however, that same fact is killing you".
And yes, the medium is comics so I've come to accept that things like this happen on a common basis. Doesn't change facts.
I don't care who did it. I like Superman. And while I do think some of his other feats are even more ridiculous (blackhole in hand, rubbing hands to seal rifts, etc) and this just shows us, again, that Superman is physically superior to everyone, I don't think it serves a greater part of a story. It's just a wanking of numbers.
Pretty much.
I personally found it fun and awesome in it's ridiculousness, but people hating the showing is very understandable. And there's no pretending it's nothing more than a feat for the sake of a feat.
The numbers, the details etc. Scott wrote this while imagining how Superman can beat up anybody's favorite hero or while watching Goku powerup or some shit. It appeals to a more childlike point of view, in the long run is irrelevant, and doesn't really serve the story very much. It might even hurt it.
That being said, if the comics are good, then I don't care if Superman farts out Suns.
While I can admit that the feat is ridiculous in it's absurdity, I really don't get why people can say it cheapens Superman at all.
Seriously?
Superman has always been about doing the impossible. In OWAW, it was moving a planet. In Final Crisis, which was basically Morrison's love letter to Superman, we saw him save the day with the Miracle Machine and sing Darkseid out of existence.
Then we had Superman Beyond, which was basically Morrison jizzing all over the page and showing us just how much he loved Superman in the most blatant way possible.
Yet nobody cares that his feats are ridiculous, because the comics themselves are well-written.
I see nothing in the Lobdell preview that somehow makes the comic shit, nor do I see how this at all cheapens Superman.
Forgive my bluntness, but IT'S ****ING SUPERMAN.
He's supposed to be able to do the most ridiculous shit in comics, and given that he's been treated a bit poorly over the last 2-3 years before the reboot, the fans have been waiting for something like this to come along.
Maybe it was a feat for a feat's sake, but in all honesty, he was due a few of those, and given that the comic isn't even out yet, I think both camps are making claims that are utterly premature.
Originally posted by -Pr-
While I can admit that the feat is ridiculous in it's absurdity, I really don't get why people can say it cheapens Superman at all.Seriously?
Superman has always been about doing the impossible. In OWAW, it was moving a planet. In Final Crisis, which was basically Morrison's love letter to Superman, we saw him save the day with the Miracle Machine and sing Darkseid out of existence.
Then we had Superman Beyond, which was basically Morrison jizzing all over the page and showing us just how much he loved Superman in the most blatant way possible.
Yet nobody cares that his feats are ridiculous, because the comics themselves are well-written.
I see nothing in the Lobdell preview that somehow makes the comic shit, nor do I see how this at all cheapens Superman.
Forgive my bluntness, but IT'S ****ING SUPERMAN.
He's supposed to be able to do the most ridiculous shit in comics, and given that he's been treated a bit poorly over the last 2-3 years before the reboot, the fans have been waiting for something like this to come along.
Maybe it was a feat for a feat's sake, but in all honesty, he was due a few of those, and given that the comic isn't even out yet, I think both camps are making claims that are utterly premature.
Just my opinion but:
Maybe it's because the test-like conditions, exact figures, and overall feat are overt fan-service. Superman is a character, a hero, a symbol, and a myth. I don't have to tell you that. Superman doesn't exist in a vs. forum, nor do other characters, but for a while now certain writers seem to have forgotten that from time to time.
I'd also contend that Superman hasn't always been about doing anything ever. Limits are as important to a hero as powers.
If the comics are well-written, you have a point, there's still merit. But this particular feat, presented how it was, apart from any dramatic circumstance and just a "here's a feat for you, fanboys," seems like it would be out of place in all but the most testosterone-infused Hulk tomes. Like Blair said, it's a feat for the feat's sake, not because it furthered anything about the story.
But that's me. I hope the book is good, for the fans' sake.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I love how everybody is judging Superman in a vacuum, as if he's the only guy pulling powerful feats. But when Hulk and Surfer and whomever get brought up, they get ignored and are basically "it's alright when THEY do it! I just don't want what Superman did for him to do!".
No, it's universally applied. Any perception of double standards probably just isn't following all forum discussions.
srug
Besides, I don't think the absurdity of the feat is what is being attacked. I'm fine with Superman having that strength, for example. There's a fanboy from about 5 years ago, who tried to stuff the "universe book lifting" feat down the forum's throat, who's probably weeping in joy that there's finally an exact weight to go with one of his best feats.
Anyway, it's the presentation of the feat that's off-putting, not the power level.
Originally posted by Philosophía
How is this any different than before, when Superman could contribue to half a planet/moon move, in relation to him struggling with anything? Is it outrageous now, that he can move a planet, when before it was ok for him to struggle with building, because he could only move half a planet?Let's not act like we're idiots here - this is just butthurt talking.
And unless those same people just got into comics, they're used to how the medium works. The same thing happens to every character in comics - be they Hulk, Thor, Surfer or whomever.
This bitchin' is unfounded and hypocritical.
You seem to resort to "butthurt" a lot. Not sure what that's supposed to mean, exactly. That I'm upset? Or somehow unable to handle not liking something? I'm offering an opinion, one of thousands we exchange on KMC. Nothing more or less. Claims of butthurt always struck me as trying to create an imaginary superiority by superimposing false vitriol on your opponent. With anyone who's been on the internet for any length of time, it's rarely true, and certainly isn't needed.
And in regards to the fans turning once Superman struggles, that's more an observation. Watch Superman debates after he's had a couple tough losses. I'm just outlining the progression these things go through, not saying that high and low feats are irreconcilable. They certainly aren't, or we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves.
Originally posted by Digi
Just my opinion but:
Maybe it's because the test-like conditions, exact figures, and overall feat are overt fan-service. Superman is a character, a hero, a symbol, and a myth. I don't have to tell you that. Superman doesn't exist in a vs. forum, nor do other characters, but for a while now certain writers seem to have forgotten that from time to time.I'd also contend that Superman hasn't always been about doing anything ever. Limits are as important to a hero as powers.
If the comics are well-written, you have a point, there's still merit. But this particular feat, presented how it was, apart from any dramatic circumstance and just a "here's a feat for you, fanboys," seems like it would be out of place in all but the most testosterone-infused Hulk tomes. Like Blair said, it's a feat for the feat's sake, not because it furthered anything about the story.
But that's me. I hope the book is good, for the fans' sake.
I don't believe that fan-service is inherently bad.
No, I don't agree. The limits Superman has have always been personal ones, not ones related to his powers, imo.
And I don't see how a couple of "feats for feats" sake, are so damaging. So are you saying that, if he'd pushed the Earth out of the path of a meteor of Kryptonite, and then Batman came up to him later and said "that was the equivalent of five days of bench pressing the earth" it would be all right? Yeah, I get that the figures are quite blatant, i just don't see what's so inherently bad about "here, Superman fans, this is how awesome I think Superman is".
For what it's worth (and I expect this opinion has been stated in one form or another over the last couple pages, so I'm really just typing for the sake of it), fanservice for Superman rings like fanservice for Hulk rings like fanservice for anybody else.
It's not at all an inherently bad thing, but it offers little substance for those of us who don't really give a f*ck how strong Superman is, and then just serves to annoy when it sparks this whole "DC says Superman's the strongest ever ever ever!" reaction.
I wouldn't think much of it had I read it on my own without the internet, but coupled with the reaction it had on fans and haters, it feels like Superman's been reduced to his strength level...
...which is obviously a kneejerk reaction to the whole event, because I know it'll blow over like everything else, but that's where my personal dislike for the feat and writing stems from.
Originally posted by Existere
For what it's worth (and I expect this opinion has been stated in one form or another over the last couple pages, so I'm really just typing for the sake of it), fanservice for Superman rings like fanservice for Hulk rings like fanservice for anybody else.It's not at all an inherently bad thing, but it offers little substance for those of us who don't really give a f*ck how strong Superman is, and then just serves to annoy when it sparks this whole "DC says Superman's the strongest ever ever ever!" reaction.
I wouldn't think much of it had I read it on my own without the internet, but coupled with the reaction it had on fans and haters, it feels like Superman's been reduced to his strength level...
...which is obviously a kneejerk reaction to the whole event, because I know it'll blow over like everything else, but that's where my personal dislike for the feat and writing stems from.
On vs boards, Superman is rarely little else than his strength level. In the comics, a little more is needed, tbh, and if this Lobdell arc sucks, strength or no strength, I'm sure plenty of people (myself included) will have something to say about it.
What if the Superman feat isn't a fan-service or a feat for the sake of a feat (as Digi has put it). What if it isn't even consistent with past Superman feats (e.g. Final Crisis, OWAW; as Pr says).
What if it's just to establish the character?
With the reboot, all of Superman's feats went out the window. He could have been at a Golden Age car lifting level or a Silver Age solar system towing level. Fans, and not just on battleboards, want and need context to comics.
We were shown Supes' speed with the library feat. Now we've learned about his strength. Sure, one was a hell of a lot more tactful and subtle, with more plot significance (probably, at least). And sure, you can look at the benching feat as a fan-service (it is, of course). But I think the primary objective was a perceived need to immediately establish character power and potential, with fan-service as a secondary objective.
Was it rushed? Are there better ways to say/show the same thing? Of course. But people these days have attention spans measured in seconds. They need instant gratification...and let's face it, the Superman series written by Perez and Jurgens has been stale as shit.
So maybe, if there's someone to blame, some should go to the writers & DC (Perez/Jurgens for writing crap up to now), but maybe some should go to the fans, for undoubtedly forcing it. Maybe there really isn't any blame that needs to go around. We'll see.
Just my 2 cents
Originally posted by -Pr-Because the feat itself is ridiculous, and Superman just so happened to be the guy who preformed said feat. C'mon, bench pressing the weight-equivalent of earth... For 5 straight days... While weaker than normal..? That is just stupid. Tbh, I think the 5 straight days, while weakened, part is what makes the feat so facepalm-worthy for me. It's just so far over the top that it literally makes me laugh. Like I mentioned before, Galactus himself could have preformed this feat, and I would have still had the same opinion/reaction about it. The feat itself is cheap and cheesy, which [sadly] makes the character who preformed the feat a bit cheaper and cheesier as well. Again, this is purely my opinion.
While I can admit that the feat is ridiculous in it's absurdity, I really don't get why people can say it cheapens Superman at all.Seriously?
The part that will be really funny is when a select few act like planet-lifting is Superman's baseline, and any time he displays less than planet-level feats, it's PIS. When (not if) that happens, you will see me e-laugh. Most enthusiastically.
Originally posted by HueyFreemanWhy would this feat lead to a larger level of inconsistency than before? Even before the reboot, he could still move at least half of the Earth - thus even mountains should be feathers to him. Anyone not being planetary-level shouldn't have even bothered him.
It does make sense because the story doesnt have to continue the trend. This feat is going to lead to large levels of inconsistancy with his strength(especially his lifting strength) .
Yet it did. Again, and again, and again.
And that's not exclusive to Superman. I could go on about Hulk. Silver Surfer. Thor. Hell, all of Galactus' heralds - they pull cosmic feats consistently. Whipping boy Terrax splits planets in half.
Do they always operate on that level? No. Of course not. Because that's the way the comic universe works.
Do you read comics?
Originally posted by HueyFreemanJust because you "don't like him" doesn't change the fact that he has sustained on-going series, for decades.
And hulk well .....Hulk sucks so I really dont care if he lifts the multiverse above his head or if he struggles with a car.
Doesn't change that he was holding a planet integral by physically pulling it together in what was one of the most lauded storylines of the past decades for him.
Doesn't change the fact that he was capable of destroying Earth with footsteps in the cash-machine of an event that was WWH, after stomping the combined Earth resources.
What I'm saying here: Your opinion doesn't count and only facts do the talking.
You may be butthurt. You may simply not understand how comics work. You may purposely choose ignorance.
I do not care.
But do not act like this ruins Superman. Do not act like this is the stupidest feat in comics. Do not act like this would lead to inconsistency regarding Superman -> Superman has been portrayed inconsistently for the better part of his existence; be it Silver Age. Be it Bronze Age. Be it the pre-Flashpoint Universe. Do not act like inconsistency is exclusive to Superman, when it's not. Do not act like the whole comic medium isn't inconsistent, when it is.
Do not act ignorant of the medium. Do not act hypocritical. Keep the butthurt to yourself.
Take my advice. 👆
Originally posted by DigiI've spelled the hypocrisy and double-standards in this thread. You can ignore it, it's the same to me. But it's there.
No, it's universally applied. Any perception of double standards probably just isn't following all forum discussions.
Originally posted by DigiThen you better read the discussion again. Galan is blatantly crying about how immense this feat is, and how much he doesn't like it:
Besides, I don't think the absurdity of the feat is what is being attacked. I'm fine with Superman having that strength, for example.
Originally posted by Galan007
C'mon, bench pressing the weight-equivalent of earth... For 5 straight days... While weaker than normal..? That is just stupid. Tbh, I think the 5 straight days, while weakened, part is what makes the feat so facepalm-worthy for me.
--
Like I said, I do not care that some people don't want Superman to be this strong. I care when they ***** about him being this strong, while doing the 👆 for other feats that are ridiculously dumb and deserved to be called out, but don't. I care when for Superman the standard is put higher than other heroes', and people are purposely ignoring how comics work. Everybody is inconsistent. Including Superman. The Superman of now will be inconsistent. The Superman of 5 years ago was inconsistent. The Superman of half a century ago was inconsistent. Superman now being able to bench-press Earth, when before he could only bench-press half of it is functionally the same. The inconsistency is, has and will always be there.
And so are all the other characters that appear enough times in comics.
This doesn't change anything - except pulling 12 inch dildos up the asses of haters.
This is my last say on this, for anybody thinking otherwise:
Superman is now stronger than before. He can bench-press Earth. This doesn't ruin the character. This is not anymore ridiculous or inconsistent than everything else that happen in comics, monthly. Anybody actually reading comics, knows this.
Deal with it.
Enough of this crap.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWhy are you so upset? Why are you bringing up dildos? The feat itself is idiotic (even Pr said as much.) If you don't agree, that's fine. Get over it. 👆
I've spelled the hypocrisy and double-standards in this thread. You can ignore it, it's the same to me. But it's there.Then you better read the discussion again. Galan is blatantly crying about how immense this feat is, and how much he doesn't like it:
--
Like I said, I do not care that some people don't want Superman to be this strong. I care when they ***** about him being this strong, while doing the 👆 for other feats that are ridiculously dumb and deserved to be called out, but don't. I care when for Superman the standard is put higher than other heroes', and people are purposely ignoring how comics work. Everybody is inconsistent. Including Superman. The Superman of now will be inconsistent. The Superman of 5 years ago was inconsistent. The Superman of half a century ago was inconsistent. Superman now being able to bench-press Earth, when before he could only bench-press half of it is functionally the same. The inconsistency is, has and will always be there.
And so are all the other characters that appear enough times in comics.
This doesn't change anything - except pulling 12 inch dildos up the asses of haters.
This is my last say on this, for anybody thinking otherwise:
Superman is now stronger than before. He can bench-press Earth. This doesn't ruin the character. This is not anymore ridiculous or inconsistent than everything else that happen in comics, monthly. Anybody actually reading comics, knows this.
Deal with it.
Enough of this crap.