Originally posted by Golgo13
I'll give you on the shuffling, but the quality has increased across the board. For the exception of the Young line.
I honestly don't agree. Not to say that no books have improved; some definitely have. I just feel that some have declined too.
I don't think there's as much star power as there was at launch.
Originally posted by -Pr-Sometimes Pak's art works extremely well, and sometimes it doesn't. Tbh, I think his rendition of Superman looks atrocious-- doesn't fit the character at all, imo.
Really not sure how I feel about Jae Lee working with Pak.Not really surprising given the drop in quality, the constant shuffling of talent and the rumblings about editorial **** ups.
As for your second point: totally agree. DC is phucking themselves over.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI wouldn't have minded those changes at all--- but instead they retcon Maj into a man-made science project? Just seems silly, and completely unneeded. /shrug
Apparently so.I would have thought that given Jim Lee's heavy involvement, we could see a universe in which both Superman and Majestic could exist together without "taking away" anything from Superman and keeping Majestic relevant in his own right. I would have even taken Majestic being retconned into a Daxamite or the Kherubims being an off shoot of Kryptonians.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't agree. Not to say that no books have improved; some definitely have. I just feel that some have declined too.I don't think there's as much star power as there was at launch.
The Edge line has improved, the Dark line has improved, the Justice League line has improved, the Superman line has improved, etc... From the start of the relaunch, some of those lines were pretty average, especially the Superman line.
Originally posted by Galan007
Sometimes Pak's art works extremely well, and sometimes it doesn't. Tbh, I think his rendition of Superman looks atrocious-- doesn't fit the character at all, imo.As for your second point: totally agree. DC is phucking themselves over.
I wouldn't have minded those changes at all--- but instead they retcon Maj into a man-made science project? Just seems silly, and completely unneeded. /shrug
Agreed.
Originally posted by Golgo13
The Edge line has improved, the Dark line has improved, the Justice League line has improved, the Superman line has improved, etc... From the start of the relaunch, some of those lines were pretty average, especially the Superman line.
The Superman book was average, not the line imo.
And I'm not sure about the Justice League line, tbh.
I feel the Bat line has suffered, as has the Lantern line.
I disagree. I'm excited to see what the new writers have to bring. The Lantern line was pretty dull. Yeah, no star power, but we all know star power doesn't equal quality.
Seeing as you guys only like focusing on the negative (no surprise), DC's sales are STILL up and not only do they charge less for their books on average, they have less mega events than Marvel and no double shipping, which inflates Marvel's sales.
Originally posted by Golgo13
I disagree. I'm excited to see what the new writers have to bring. The Lantern line was pretty dull. Yeah, no star power, but we all know star power doesn't equal quality.Seeing as you guys only like focusing on the negative (no surprise), DC's sales are STILL up and not only do they charge less for their books on average, they have less mega events than Marvel and no double shipping, which inflates Marvel's sales.
I meant star power not just in talent, but in the quality of the books.
Don't get snippy, especially when you have a tendency to make excuses for even the most heinous of DC's behaviour.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I meant star power not just in talent, but in the quality of the books.Don't get snippy, especially when you have a tendency to make excuses for even the most heinous of DC's behaviour.
Those aren't excuses those were facts I listed. And I hardly make excuses, seeing as they keep screwing over the talent that I like (Joshua on GLC). I knew someone would say something like that, but you guys only see what you want to see. As for the talent, DC keeps hiring good indie writers. Swamp Thing was pretty good, Deathstroke has been really good, Suicide is about to pick up a solid writer, etc...
Originally posted by Golgo13
Those aren't excuses those were facts I listed. And I hardly make excuses, seeing as they keep screwing over the talent that I like (Joshua on GLC). I knew someone would say something like that, but you guys only see what you want to see. As for the talent, DC keeps hiring good indie writers. Swamp Thing was pretty good, Deathstroke has been really good, Suicide is about to pick up a solid writer, etc...
Yeah, because being antagonistic really helps your argument. 👆
Maybe we can find you another bandwagon to jump on so you can stop being so damn testy.
Who said we're being negative, or that we only focus on negatives?
Nobody on this forum was happier than I was when Matt Idelson ****ed off and Berganza came back to edit Superman.
Nobody was happier than me when Johns finally gave us the Aquaman book that was up there with the very best work that was ever done with the character.
Nobody was happier than me when Superman and Diana became a couple.
So no, calling DC on their bullshit doesn't make anybody a negative person. Making excuses for shitty behaviour is what has Marvel's books the way they are.
Though lol @ that company not having diversity. They have plenty.
if they're unhappy with things DC is doing, they have every right to say so. Several characters were completely ****ed over in the reboot, or weren't even brought over in the first place. I'm still mad about Green Arrow, for example.
I'd be very surprised if people were bitching for the sake of bitching.
BTW, most of Marvel's comics are X-Men/Avengers related. It's why they canceled a bunch of books to replace them for what SELLS. Which is why there is a big rumor that DC will go in the way of this and cancel a bunch of books to replace them with Batman, Superman, JLA, and GL related, which is what sells.
Originally posted by -Pr-
if they're unhappy with things DC is doing, they have every right to say so. Several characters were completely ****ed over in the reboot, or weren't even brought over in the first place. I'm still mad about Green Arrow, for example.I'd be very surprised if people were bitching for the sake of bitching.
Some of things they have said they didn't like were not even true, which is why I come in here and state some facts. Not going to go over it again, but I still read more than half of DC's relaunch books. I definitely drop a lot of books, but I still keep up with a good portion of them, which is why I know what is going on.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Some of things they have said they didn't like were not even true, which is why I come in here and state some facts. Not going to go over it again, but I still read more than half of DC's relaunch books. I definitely drop a lot of books, but I still keep up with a good portion of them, which is why I know what is going on.
You not agreeing with things doesn't make them untrue. 😬
Originally posted by Golgo13
BTW, most of Marvel's comics are X-Men/Avengers related. It's why they canceled a bunch of books to replace them for what SELLS. Which is why there is a big rumor that DC will go in the way of this and cancel a bunch of books to replace them with Batman, Superman, JLA, and GL related, which is what sells.
Those books in and of themselves have plenty of diversity. It's just branding, to cash in with movie audiences.
Originally posted by -Pr-
You not agreeing with things doesn't make them untrue. 😬Those books in and of themselves have plenty of diversity. It's just branding, to cash in with movie audiences.
It's not the fact that I disagree, but some statements said by certain posters that weren't true. It's cool that we disagree, because we all disagree at times. I could care less if you think the quality has dropped, but that's not really what I am talking about.
Originally posted by -Pr-
You not agreeing with things doesn't make them untrue. 😬Those books in and of themselves have plenty of diversity. It's just branding, to cash in with movie audiences.
Just another gimick to inflate sells, just like double shipping and multiple events a year. Now take that away and Marvel would be in the same boat. Hell, they have had a steeper drop off at #2 issues and beyond than DC has. Yet, DC is a failure. Go figure.
I think DC's definitely losing some steam and star power. The Superman line is going to get a huge boost once Batman/Superman and Superman Unchained dropped, and the movie certainly won't hurt things. Batman's coming off of a critically acclaimed event and Morrison's wrapping up of his take on the character. And Justice League is gearing up for the Trinity War.
Everything else, though...Idk. It just feels like DC's not sure which direction they want to go in for some of their titles and editorial's not helping them at all. I'd love it if DC had a get together like Marvel does on a regular basis and get everyone on the same page and where they want to go in the future. Sure, Marvel does some atrocious shit and one writer in particular could give a shit about anyone else's stories but his own (Bendis), but they seem to have a clear view as to where they are going and why. Even if their view is meh, they at least have or seem to have a clear path to get from Point A to Point B.
To me, seems like DC is less certain on the future barring their biggest franchises.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think DC's definitely losing some steam and star power. The Superman line is going to get a huge boost once Batman/Superman and Superman Unchained dropped, and the movie certainly won't hurt things. Batman's coming off of a critically acclaimed event and Morrison's wrapping up of his take on the character. And Justice League is gearing up for the Trinity War.Everything else, though...Idk. It just feels like DC's not sure which direction they want to go in for some of their titles and editorial's not helping them at all. I'd love it if DC had a get together like Marvel does on a regular basis and get everyone on the same page and where they want to go in the future. Sure, Marvel does some atrocious shit and one writer in particular could give a shit about anyone else's stories but his own (Bendis), but they seem to have a clear view as to where they are going and why. Even if their view is meh, they at least have or seem to have a clear path to get from Point A to Point B.
To me, seems like DC is less certain on the future barring their biggest franchises.
That's not entirely true, though. Editorial has wanted to do line events for a while that connects all their books. We have seen it with the COO storyline, Superman storyline, and now the Justice Leauge line will be connecting with one another as well. They have a direction. Editors have maped out directions, but it seems a bunch of writers don't want to be on the same page, since we have seen multiple writers walk off. Andy Diggle and Joshua just to name a few.
The Dark line is coming together as well. Both the Dark Line and Justice League line are linked with Trinity War, which is where DC is going. Wherever that is.