The Scenario
Greater Sci-Fi combatant
Originally posted by Burning thought
We see an attack, thats it and on top of that this barrier nonsense proves nothing so all this "the explosion is delayed" rubbish is a cop out why would it be delayed? you hit something and then have to wait before the power is applied or something? reaching again, i think you should instead stop ignoring the logic in the argument for the sake of pride because you will never be able to convince people of events not seen based on your "belief" especially when were missing lightning, a rumble/shake of the castle AND an explosion in the strike. The screen going white but theres no static discharge of noise.....
So you believe that the only attack we've seen is not responsible for the destruction. Despite the fact that we've seem similar effects and destruction when Midna has attacked before. We saw Midna attack the barrier, do you remember what happened? We saw Midna hit, then was an initial flash of light, followed a little later by an explosion that tore apart the barrier. What did we see happen to Hyrule Castle? We saw Midna attack, then (after a scene change) an initial flash of light, followed a bit later by an explosion that tore apart the castle.
The barrier attack is identical in effect to the castle explosion, and everything fits. The light, the rumble, and even the explosion were seen previously when Midna attacked the barrier.
1) yeh, before she attacks, but we dont actually see what Ganon is doing, based on the noise no explosion, lightning or rumble of the castles foundations either. Does it? you really belive so? jsut because he was growling in defiance before automatically lets you assume he did that throughout?2) 😆 now your trying to match up how the barrier was destroyed and claiming Ganon was struck in the same way and the castle would break in the same way as if theres no difference between the two.
3) bright flash (its not bright at all) is definatly lightning? you have made sure thats a fact now have you? 🙄 I disagree with it because its a theory, from a bias perspective based on what you "belive" not whats actually seen. All you have is what happened before the strike and your trying to claim thats all that happened throughout while ignoring the fact explosions and the castles foundations rumbling (and lighnting) all coming later.
Again, you just compared how the barrier was defeated as if its the same as exploding. You forget different surfaces react differently and break differently, you cannot just generalise that everything midna strikes flashes with light and falls away like the barrier...
1) It's not a stretch to assume that Ganondorf remained doing what we saw him doing a few seconds before. The growl even indicates was still just growling during the attack. It is a stretch, however, to assume that Ganondorf was actually attacking the entire time he was offscreen. We saw him doing nothing before the attack, we heard him doing nothing during then attack, I think it is reasonable to conclude that he did nothing. At least until after the attack, wherein he won by unknown means.
2) Well...yes. We saw the effects of the attack once, so concluding that the same attack would work the same way as the first time it was shown is rather reasonable. Otherwise all attack feats are meaningless, since you can't say one attack will have the same effect if used again. Fact is, Midna attacked the barrier and showed the effects of the attack. When she used it again on Hyrule Castle, the effects matched the barrier. Thus I conclude it's the same attack.
3) You're the one assuming it's even lightning. Compare this light to this light. They're pretty much identical, save that you can the barrier one better since there's not a castle in the way. Seen on barrier also is how that explosion came later, and was even rumbling. We may not have seen Midna directly doing it to the castle, but all the effects we see happen to the castle also happened to the barrier, indicating that it was likely Midna's attack.
I think you misunderstood my point. The effects on the barrier and effects on the castle are nearly identical, especially considering differences in material, and what it the one thing in common between them? Well, Midna with her spear thing attacked both of them.
Yes, very funny I meant before that scene. Also I am not seeing the "spearing" or Ganondorf being speared at all actually.....what point was that in the scene?
You mean this? Midna proves she can hit Ganondorf in Fused Shadow form, and later, she attacks a spot where we know him to be, unless you are assuming Ganondorf moved with no evidence he did and against his growl indicating he stayed?
Yes, it does not include stretching out everyone elses arguments to make it look longer and again, a theory, assuming I agreed you had the least assumptions it does not mean youve convinced me your correct. It matches up fine, the barrier is held up by a magic force and her magic was stronger nullifying it just like how when she kicked Ganon out she nullified him, she did not physically beat him out then the magic barrier falls away.
Can you prove that? Prove that slamming a weapon into a shield just turns it off? As opposed to the actual cutscene showing the shield break? Opposed to Midna being shown in cutscene to squeeze Ganondorf's spirit out of Zelda? You really have no basis for this line of though, given that everything we've seen the Fused Shadows do so far has been mostly physical? I guess when Midna stabbed Zant she just nullified his life instead of killing him? Really, this is getting ridiculous, I don't see why Midna isn't allowed to just break stuff.
Well actually I dont know or have evidence of what this barrier does, all I see is it being destroyed, also piercing it means nothing, you can pierce a magic wall but your claim of "brute force" is simply again another one of your beliefs that you think takes precedance over anyone elses opinion which is all it is, theres no fact that suggests a magic barrier has ot be shattered physically or that Midna, using magic herself did not nullify it with simply greater power.
Okay, just what is it you think barriers do? They stop physical objects from passing, and this can be demonstrated by attempting to enter it without the Fused Shadows. You know what happens? Link hits the the barrier and it shimmers a little. Midna quite clearly physically hits the thing, and it breaks. That's what we see. Making up a story about how Midna used her power to disable the magic holding up the barrier makes no sense when we see Midna just hit it really hard. To repeat, we see Midna hit it really hard and it broke. Why must you make it complicated?
Again your toying with the idea of force, which is not always evident in magic power. Magic does not have to use explosive force, nor is it evident here. Magic can affect an area or generalise an area for a set amount of power within. Also you ignored some parts of the post, furthermore how do we know Ganon tanked the explosion? and did not teleport out before it even happened?
Seriously? Despite the fact that we see these forces at work? Midna hits the barrier really hard, and causes an explosion. Where are you getting these rules of magic from? Zelda has never followed what you describe. It's all magic weapons, blasts of energy, and explosions, disintegrations, or transformations. There is no indication at of what you're describing in any Zelda game ever. Do you know how you nullify a barrier in Zelda? Ocarina of Time shows us that you hit the power source (a magic generator) with a Light Arrow, and you never touch the barrier itself. Do you know how you break a barrier in Zelda? You hit the thing really hard with something, like what Midna outright shows. You're assuming these things have properties they have never shown and are denying the evidence to the contrary. Further, if you want to claim Ganondorf teleported, prove it. Show me Ganondorf teleporting or give any indication that he did. You can't just say "maybe he did this" unless you have actual reason to think he did beyond sheer guessing. See, because the actual evidence here shows Ganondorf unmoved in the room, roaring at Midna, and then he's still growling when the weapon comes down. That evidence indicates he did not teleport before or during the attack. Afterwards, he might have teleported, but not until the attack finished.
If their immaterial then that simply removes any strength feat or impressiveness of the attack, most characters that we debate on KMC can affect immaterial people, not that I agree thats definatly what they are since the way the sage moves with the strike makes it seem physical enough.
It was never a strength feat at all. No, it was a "Ganondorf can explode people" feat, immaterial or not. It's not like he even hit all that hard, but his touch disintegrated and/or exploded a guy. That's the feat, not the actual punch.