Mortal Kombat 9 vs. Twilight Princess

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, I believe that the Elder God travels from place to place, not that he is large enough to be in all those places simultaneously.

This is a point where you contradict yourself by assuming that he is continent size despite no evidence for such an idea. Which is exactly what you're claiming we're doing.

I understand you more than you think.

I'm like, all up in your head and shit, man. I know what you're thinking, even before you think it.

I've seen some weird shit, man.

Some of them, I got that. But none of them actually blow up the castle. They can just knock down some walls or something.

I don't ****ing know. lol.

Cool?

Depends on what this is replying to.

So...when do you start doing that?

You're not considering psychology as a career field, are you?

So, if you'll notice the post that mine here is responding to, it's degraded into telling me what I think, why I do the things I do, and how everybody else views me. Excellent debating, sir.

And yet, you retain such self righteousness.

He cannot travel like that, each piece is different since hes not a single area, hes attached to all the areas hes been to. Your claim would also assume he happens to chase Raziel, Kain what have you to each specific area throughout time and by chance appear before them, your sort of ignoring a few games worth of evidence in the desperate hope of apprently making the compariosn that its not fair to belive the EG is this large despite actually seeing something from him vs not seeing much if anything from Midna in this one scene in question.

I am not contradicting myself if there is evidence, your making up a completly new assumption/idea based on nothing really. I am cliaming your making up events that we do not see, just because you do not see the whole of an object, e.g. the whole of Atlas in God of war does not mean those piecies do not excist when clearly, based on what we do see and based on his nature, it does.

Tbh all your doing is thinking what I claim is unfair, and making a bad job of making a comparison by twisting piecies of what I have said here and there.

lol you think a Tank shell or a JDM bomb dropped by a plane can just "knock over some walls", I would like you to prove castles are so durable, you overvalue medieval construction. warwolf can knock down a wall, but MK team are not using trebuchet's their using plasma and missle weapons and thats just Jax.

Sure its damn cool, modern weapons designed to do far more than smash castles and thats in the hands of one man.

I have been doing it consistently since I step into these threads, of course I cannot make people realise something if they simply dont want to, and would rather troll.

Why? it does not take much, if anything to realise this. A psychologist would probably bring up insecurities and emotional trauma or something.

Thats not debating there, this is lesson number one, not everything paragraph in a post is a straight forward debate hence how Scenario and my posts previously pointing out the pointlessness of the thread being seperate from the actual debate.

I have no error here, I am doing the regulating not the fallacy making so at the moment I have no reason to be anything other than rightious.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He cannot travel like that, each piece is different since hes not a single area, hes attached to all the areas hes been to. Your claim would also assume he happens to chase Raziel, Kain what have you to each specific area throughout time and by chance appear before them, your sort of ignoring a few games worth of evidence in the desperate hope of apprently making the compariosn that its not fair to belive the EG is this large despite actually seeing something from him vs not seeing much if anything from Midna in this one scene in question.

He cannot travel like that? What evidence do you have to support such a claim?

There is no fault in assuming he happens to be there, mostly because such a thing is common in games where an NPC is particularly important. I can name three games right off the bat where it is so.

Spyro, the first example, has an NPC named Hunter. If I run through this tunnel, the only way I can get past this mountainous hill-thing, Hunter is on the other end, waiting to tell me something. If I run back through the tunnel, Hunter is at that end, waiting to tell me something. With your method, Hunter is a teleporter.

Don't even try to claim that I am the one ignoring something. That is pretty much all you do, ignore things.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am not contradicting myself if there is evidence, your making up a completly new assumption/idea based on nothing really. I am cliaming your making up events that we do not see, just because you do not see the whole of an object, e.g. the whole of Atlas in God of war does not mean those piecies do not excist when clearly, based on what we do see and based on his nature, it does.

That's the thing. There isn't an evidence for that claim.

And no, I'm not making it up based on nothing. I'm saying it based on hearing Kain himself say that the Elder God burrows through the ground, and not seeing much more of the Elder God than some tentacles. Look there, I've already got more evidence for my claim than yours!

I cannot believe that you either can't, or more likely, won't, see how hypocritical you are being here.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Tbh all your doing is thinking what I claim is unfair, and making a bad job of making a comparison by twisting piecies of what I have said here and there.

You left out the part where I point out your hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol you think a Tank shell or a JDM bomb dropped by a plane can just "knock over some walls", I would like you to prove castles are so durable, you overvalue medieval construction. warwolf can knock down a wall, but MK team are not using trebuchet's their using plasma and missle weapons and thats just Jax.

Yeah. A tank shell is not going to blow up a castle. 😐 Don't even know what JDM is supposed to be.

I would like you to prove these bombs are so powerful.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sure its damn cool, modern weapons designed to do far more than smash castles and thats in the hands of one man.

There you go saying Jaxx has access to an entire armory, complete with Tanks and planes, again.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have been doing it consistently since I step into these threads, of course I cannot make people realise something if they simply dont want to, and would rather troll.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why? it does not take much, if anything to realise this. A psychologist would probably bring up insecurities and emotional trauma or something.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not debating there, this is lesson number one, not everything paragraph in a post is a straight forward debate hence how Scenario and my posts previously pointing out the pointlessness of the thread being seperate from the actual debate.

This is lesson number one. "Not everything paragraph in a post" is not good grammar.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have no error here, I am doing the regulating not the fallacy making so at the moment I have no reason to be anything other than rightious.

God damn it. Use spell check.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
He cannot travel like that? What evidence do you have to support such a claim?

There is no fault in assuming he happens to be there, mostly because such a thing is common in games where an NPC is particularly important. I can name three games right off the bat where it is so.

Spyro, the first example, has an NPC named Hunter. If I run through this tunnel, the only way I can get past this mountainous hill-thing, Hunter is on the other end, waiting to tell me something. If I run back through the tunnel, Hunter is at that end, waiting to tell me something. With your method, Hunter is a teleporter.

Don't even try to claim that I am the one ignoring something. That is pretty much all you do, ignore things.

That's the thing. There isn't an evidence for that claim.

And no, I'm not making it up based on nothing. I'm saying it based on hearing Kain himself say that the Elder God burrows through the ground, and not seeing much more of the Elder God than some tentacles. Look there, I've already got more evidence for my claim than yours!

I cannot believe that you either can't, or more likely, won't, see how hypocritical you are being here.

You left out the part where I point out your hypocrisy.

Yeah. A tank shell is not going to blow up a castle. 😐 Don't even know what JDM is supposed to be.

I would like you to prove these bombs are so powerful.

There you go saying Jaxx has access to an entire armory, complete with Tanks and planes, again.

Prove it.

This is lesson number one. "Not everything paragraph in a post" is not good grammar.

God damn it. Use spell check.

Because he has not? and that he is physically unable due to being attached to entire cave entrances, if he actually moved to randomly (for no reason at all, he knows what their doing throughout time and space) chase them for your theory to work we would not be able to return to places he also resides in and not only see him still there, but see no cave ins from where he has moved, e.g. the Abyss.

What do I ignore? tell me? I am taking into account all evidence, thats what my entire argument revolves around is how you percieve evidence afterall. If I was ignoring it, I would be ignoring my own argument so your logic falls flat again.

No, Kain says "you best burrow deep", derogatory remark from a fallible source on said subject, Kain only has just met the EG so Kain does not really know what the EG is or what it does.

I think its because you know nothing of the EG therefore you dont really understand what your claiming, your just claiming it because your sore over your specific scene not showing what you want it to.

Their weapons are designed and have shown the capability to blow up advanced tank armour of today and your argueing they cannot blow up castles? 😆 Sorry its actually JDAM, a 1000-2000 pound bomb.

I did not say that, Jax has missles and energy weapons, I never said anything about him having an army. Reading comprehension ftw....

Your proving it for me by trolling consistantly.

When all you can do is whine about spelling clearly you have no argument left, go and find an argument or dont come back to the thread to troll, your simply wasting time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Because he has not? and that he is physically unable due to being attached to entire cave entrances, if he actually moved to randomly (for no reason at all, he knows what their doing throughout time and space) chase them for your theory to work we would not be able to return to places he also resides in and not only see him still there, but see no cave ins from where he has moved, e.g. the Abyss.

If he knows what they're doing through time and space then why the hell are you still going on about him chasing them? He'd know where they're going to be before they do, and would easily have the ability to meet them there. >_>

None of this makes up for the fact that you have not even the slightest indication that he is continent sized.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What do I ignore? tell me? I am taking into account all evidence, thats what my entire argument revolves around is how you percieve evidence afterall. If I was ignoring it, I would be ignoring my own argument so your logic falls flat again.

The better question is what don't you ignore.

You cannot be taking in all evidence, because that is impossible to do and still reach the conclusion you have.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, Kain says "you best burrow deep", derogatory remark from a fallible source on said subject, Kain only has just met the EG so Kain does not really know what the EG is or what it does.

He says it as we see it shrink away from Kain, deeper down into the ground.

Most people say "Run little man, run" or something like that, because most people they know, run. Kain tells this thing to burrow deep.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I think its because you know nothing of the EG therefore you dont really understand what your claiming, your just claiming it because your sore over your specific scene not showing what you want it to.

Wow. Now, not only do I apparently not understand you. I don't ****ing understand me?

Dude. Get smart.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their weapons are designed and have shown the capability to blow up advanced tank armour of today and your argueing they cannot blow up castles? 😆 Sorry its actually JDAM, a 1000-2000 pound bomb.

Blowing up a tank is not as impressive as blowing up an entire castle, least of all one with the sheer size of Hyrule Castle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I did not say that, Jax has missles and energy weapons, I never said anything about him having an army. Reading comprehension ftw....

Oh, I'm sorry. Based on what else had been said in the discussion, the words you chose led me through the most obvious line of thought.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your proving it for me by trolling consistantly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
When all you can do is whine about spelling clearly you have no argument left, go and find an argument or dont come back to the thread to troll, your simply wasting time.

Working. With what. You give me.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
If he knows what they're doing through time and space then why the hell are you still going on about him chasing them? He'd know where they're going to be before they do, and would easily have the ability to meet them there. >_>

None of this makes up for the fact that you have not even the slightest indication that he is continent sized.

The better question is what don't you ignore.

You cannot be taking in all evidence, because that is impossible to do and still reach the conclusion you have.

He says it as we see it shrink away from Kain, deeper down into the ground.

Most people say "Run little man, run" or something like that, because most people they know, run. Kain tells this thing to burrow deep.

Wow. Now, not only do I apparently not understand you. I don't ****ing understand me?

Dude. Get smart.

Blowing up a tank is not as impressive as blowing up an entire castle, least of all one with the sheer size of Hyrule Castle.

Oh, I'm sorry. Based on what else had been said in the discussion, the words you chose led me through the most obvious line of thought.

Working. With what. You give me.

Why? your missing a motive, he can speak to raziel anywhere, he speaks to moebius through pools of water, he does not have to present for anything he wants to do, even the whole fighting Kain thing was something that slipped through his apprent "omnicience" so he did not know he was going to be fighting him.

You cannot stretch across many places across the world and not be.

Trolling, not a counter.

We dont see it at all, we see the vampire citadel collapsing because he attempts to bury kain. Your reaching massively now....

The guy desperatly trying to compare chalk and cheese while not even argueing his own argument is asking someone else to get smart? oh the irony 😆

Why? it takes higher force to break stronger materials, the only thing that is required with a larger castle is a larger area, you realise a nuclear bomb could not destroy a british Tank in 1952 allowing it to drive away from the site with simply burn fabrics and smashed lights, point being that force over a smaller area can be far more powerful than force in a large area, which is of couse required to topple a castle, bombs do this but some of the largest ones cannot bust tanks. At best, Midnas little attack can break castle walls, vs MK who have missles, energy weapons and are from a modern if not future era.

😆 no, you mean your line of thought mr Karl.

No, your working with nonsense and trolling, you have plenty of materials from scenario who could give you a crutch to hobble on but you will not even argue your post, instead prefer to whine about nonsensual items.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why? your missing a motive, he can speak to raziel anywhere, he speaks to moebius through pools of water, he does not have to present for anything he wants to do, even the whole fighting Kain thing was something that slipped through his apprent "omnicience" so he did not know he was going to be fighting him.

Then he chooses to be present.

Oh, so he doesn't actually have omniscience? Ah, good. Then that takes away from your argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You cannot stretch across many places across the world and not be.

That's why he doesn't stretch.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Trolling, not a counter.

I really hope this isn't replying to what I think it is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
We dont see it at all, we see the vampire citadel collapsing because he attempts to bury kain. Your reaching massively now....

Bro, I've seen the video. Don't lie to me. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
The guy desperatly trying to compare chalk and cheese while not even argueing his own argument is asking someone else to get smart? oh the irony 😆

Trolling, not a counter.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why? it takes higher force to break stronger materials, the only thing that is required with a larger castle is a larger area, you realise a nuclear bomb could not destroy a british Tank in 1952 allowing it to drive away from the site with simply burn fabrics and smashed lights, point being that force over a smaller area can be far more powerful than force in a large area, which is of couse required to topple a castle, bombs do this but some of the largest ones cannot bust tanks. At best, Midnas little attack can break castle walls, vs MK who have missles, energy weapons and are from a modern if not future era.

So what you're saying is, that you actually understand how much force it would take to blow up the massive Hyrule Castle, but you don't want to admit it because that would grant Zelda something powerful.

I'm paraphrasing, of course. Pushing all of the bullshit out of the way.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 no, you mean your line of thought mr Karl.

Trolling, not a counter.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, your working with nonsense and trolling, you have plenty of materials from scenario who could give you a crutch to hobble on but you will not even argue your post, instead prefer to whine about nonsensual items.

Trolling, not a counter.

Still working with what you give me.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am here to regulate how fallacies are being tossed around and poor logic, it just so happens that most of it concerns Zelda, thats not my fault, i have done it to other verses before. Raidens was far more obvious, his was not an ambigious strike but you actually see him explode. You also have a voice over, indicating whats actually happening, if Midna began a long term charge and a voice over said she had to unleash her full power before we actually see it then I would not be here.

What fallacy, really? All I'm doing is putting 2 and 2 together, in the form of comparing a known example of Midna's power to a very similar example of power from a questioned source. It's simple to see what the intention was when Midna attacked, and the similarity to Midna's other feat just seals it. Oh, and Midna did begin a long charge when she activated the Fused Shadows and prepared a weapon. We also know she unleashed all her power since the last time she did that she was rendered unconscious. So, that's both of your conditions down, minus the unreasonable demand for voice overs in Zelda.

As much as I accept your knowledge on horrible logic, I did not say thats what actually happened, only that on the same evidence as you saying he did nothing, I am pointing out he could have just as been likely doing something, a growl is no indication of anything really. We dont hear any explosion, unless you have "scene sight" and have the power to watch the scene for longer than the game allows you dont know he was even there.

Exactly, you're not actually arguing anything. Your entire stance depends on a "maybe." You're using that to get around the fact that you have no evidence, but you're attempting to make me prove a negative- that Ganondorf did not do something- albeit in a roundabout way. I have a growl indicating that he's still in the room, and basic pattern recognition will tell you that when Ganondorf growled before, he did nothing. Why would this pattern change?

Show me the light, the rumble and the explosion when Midna actually strikes up until the point ti screen fades out please, you wont be able to because apprently Ganons oh so loud growl drowns it out.

Uh, you are aware that my argument is about that stuff not happening until after or during the strike, correct? And that the screen fades as the the attack is launched? Basically, the fallacy is you asking me to prove something I can't (and never claimed) and trying to generalize that to the entire argument. I certainly cam however, show you after.

😆 its nothing alike, we actually see beams of energy and sunlight on the barrier, all over the barrier here we dont see anything but a thrust and a screen fade out which looks more grey than light. We see the same thing before the scene change in the barier one. I like how you just ignored the evidence and what I said...

We see beams of light in both cases, what you refer to as "lightning on Hyrule Castle.

Again your self idolising view when you think your opinion=fact, I am watching the same scene and theres no explosion, theres a long drawn out ray of light that melts away the magic of the barrier, it all matches up to what I am saying and makes sense when concenring magic forces over physical. nonsense that makes logic cry is a long list of assumptions and conclusions that a station of bias has drawn together is apprently going to convince anyone, and that two completly different scenes equel the same outcome.

Really, you're being a bit hypocritical here. You criticize me for allegedly presenting opinion as fact, despite me having evidence and you...not, when in the same paragraph you state matter-of-factly that a ray of light is melting away the barrier or making up your own rules of magic, ones which Zelda has never displayed. In fact, you still seem to be misunderstanding my position on the barrier. It goes something like this:

Known force (barrier) = Effect A, or you could say "B = A"
Questioned force (castle) = Effect A, or you could say "C = A"

Therefore, we can conclude "B = C," or (barrier) = (castle), so since Midna's power is "B" and it matches "A," and "A" matches "C," which is the Castle.

If you watched the video no force happens at all, the piecs fall away after a long time of magic power being transfered through the light. You missed the visual description and added a red herring in its place 🙄 , no she can touch Zelda and her fused shadows power cannot be resisted by Ganon at the point. You sort of added a random statement without anything concerning the thread here.

Yes, I'm sure all the pieces that happened to fall upwards and outwards were just because Midna's attack nullified gravity. See, because "falling away" implies a downward motion and even a cursory glance at the video proves this wrong, as there is a force propelling several hundred barrier shards straight up. What you're then failing to grasp is that Midna has proven that the Fused Shadows can touch Ganondorf's spirit, which is all that is needed to hit him.

😆 your claiming there was actually unraveling/disapating magic but after the strike so you dont have to admit you were wrong about the scene, your so stubborn for prides sake. I hear no explosion, I only see shards falling and light radiating outwards from them like sunlight not a huge fireball ala an explosion.

Again, basic visual comprehension proves you wrong here. Objects do not typically fall upwards or to the side unless propelled by some outside force, but then if there's another force it ceases to be described as "falling" and more "being thrown." If you must attempt to gloat, please point out where I actually said the barrier did not unravel? You'll need that for your strawman to work, after all. It was simply broken.

Hardly, I have actually conceded to things before but I dont recall you conceding to anything, just argueing some nonsense further. I am watching and using the same evidence and denying piecies that are either irrelevent or dont show what you claim. You cant expect to convince someone just because you post a random video and use your beliefs on it to prop up your beliefs on another...theories from a bias position do not=fact. Your acting like you have "all" the evidence, what evidence do you think were discussing? or that I am using? 🙄 you refusing to accept your bias conclusions are not fact will not make me go away either, or the opposition.

I forget, what does this paragraph even contribute to the discussion? You seem to be complaining about not liking and denying my evidence despite not actually having any yourself.

NO!, you dont even grasp my argument, my argument is based on the fact your argument is"maybe" and"what if", the fact youve drawn some conclusion together changes nothing and my evidence is the same stuff your using. It annoys me when you constantly think I am trying to prove Ganon or the pair of them destroyed the castle and that you repeatadly act like your own opinion on a scene is all that matters.

Not at all, I'm afraid. See, the difference here is that I have evidence of Midna destroying a barrier, and compared to the castle, it matches up perfectly. I myself have rarely, if at all, used the word "maybe" or the phrase "what if?" while you have been pointing to Ganondorf and repeatedly saying, "maybe he did this, prove me wrong." "What if Ganondorf did this, prove he didn't" and other such fallacies. I really don't know what you're trying to prove here, as it all seems to boil down to "Scenario is biased and wrong" no matter what I do. I doubt you'll ever really be satisfied here.

Oh, and by the way:

Why? it takes higher force to break stronger materials, the only thing that is required with a larger castle is a larger area, you realise a nuclear bomb could not destroy a british Tank in 1952 allowing it to drive away from the site with simply burn fabrics and smashed lights, point being that force over a smaller area can be far more powerful than force in a large area, which is of couse required to topple a castle, bombs do this but some of the largest ones cannot bust tanks. At best, Midnas little attack can break castle walls, vs MK who have missles, energy weapons and are from a modern if not future era.

I accept your concession on Midna's attack destroying the castle.

Originally posted by The Scenario
You're just using game mechanics, though, which don't really count for anything. Link still shows much greater strength than anyone of Mortal Kombat.

True, but according to your portrayal nonsense, that still means MK characters can only use fatalities at the end of a fight, but I've shown you Link can decapitate an enemy instantly. That game mechanic puts him above your game mechanic. Of course, since game mechanics aren't canon it just means Link's still stronger because he has feats.

Except you're forgetting that Link has explicit Chosen One powers that say he's always increasing in power and has the power of the ancient hero before him. Link has been shown to instantly master any technique or item shown to him. He can match any MK character in skill.

I already proved it multiple times. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

You need to beat OoT to know how this works, so get on that. Aside from that, Ganondorf is always the same guy.

So close. You've almost got it, but not quite yet. It chose him here, true, but since he always returns, it's still the same guy as in pretty much all the other games. He's just younger here, but the Triforce of Power is still the same.

How do you know it's not you misinterpreting the game? I mean, you're the one that seems to believe that lying on the ground on fire and not moving means he's just resting or something. Once against the Sages, once after Beast Ganon was killed. Maybe one after Midna scattered his particles. At least twice, though.

How long was that timeframe? Was it near instant like Ganondorf or several days?

Everything he did before getting the Triforce of Power in OoT is canon to Twilight Princess. Finish OoT and you will see how this works. Anyone who knows anything about Zelda would know this.

I have. You need to provide evidence. What, people don't post scans in Comic vs. ?

This has been explained already. Compare Midna attacking the barrier to the attack in Hyrule Castle. It all fits, but whatever happened after the attack I can't tell you.

One guy who exploded. That's still impressive.

No, in stories we've seen them do otherwise and my arguments aren't strictly limited to gameplay I just expose your hypocritical Link is too strong argument by how he is consistently portrayed throughout the game. If he was some super strong feat he'd be portrayed as one. Whatever strength he has his enemies can deal with hence Link's skill training and sword. Link isn't stronger combat wise and lifting strength doesn't directly correlate into combat strength.

You don't know if he can beat any mker in skill. That's the funniest part of your debating you making claims you haven't the foggiest clue about. I see and go through the entire game and at no point was he so powerful he simply outclassed his enemies due to strength or skill. It was always a combination of the two and even then he wasn't beyond them all just destined to win. You didn't answer my question. How long do you feel the game takes place...gimme a time frame.

You didn't prove it you keep restating but you don't have any game creator's word here backing up your theory so your theory remains just a theory.

Dorf doesn't have the same experiences as each dorf so you don't even understand what an alternate reality is. This dorf's experiences we saw. Point blank.

I don't think so and I honestly believe outside a few exceptions the creators have leeway to change things however they want. It's fans which want to make sense of it all.

I've already explained why and when I think he comes back. You disagree but that's as far as this goes. It's just going to turn into this back and forth thing on this topic.

We don't know exactly but for arguments sake it's relatively close by since the tournament took place right after Onaga came back. Either way raiden can return under his own power.

Leave it be if I do go back and beat it I will debate oot so much it'll make your head spin.

People do but people rarely enter a debate they know very little of. If they do it shows. I have entered evidence but like I said it's not wise to debate something you aren't familiar with as it just seems you are arguing out of personal preference.

It's unclear and I recall you claiming Dorf brought the castle down before. You seem to be changing your tune as you have changed your mind as well. Either way it's speculation.

Not really that impressive when you consider the circumstances.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I've shown you what happened multiple times. Midna's attack on the castle is identical to her attack on the barrier, and each of the effects matches up. See see Midna attack, and the castle explodes.

Continue story. Ganondorf can revive himself, and has does so at least twice so far. He can shapeshift as well and his feats are superior to Shao Kahn's regardless of your ignorance of context.

See, you can't say that because there's an example of him coming back without the Triforce glowing, and you can't just handwave it away by saying Beast Ganon wasn't killed when he clearly was.

Ignorance.

That's not what you said before. LQTM. Ganondorf has revived extinct species before, he's got the better feats.

It's a conclusion based on evidence. Big difference there.

Never, you monster! You can't help me! You can't help anyone!

Hammering modern day earth is superior to any conquering feats of dorf in this game. The guy was easily beat by 7 sages. Shao Kahn won a battle between all the combatants of the mk mythos and has survive complete annihilation as well. His magic is so powerful it brings back Shang Tsung through death. The villains in mk are far craftier than the loz villains as they can never defeat the hero unlike those in the mk verse.

There's a different between being killed and being defeated. If he could easily come back from a mortal wound he wouldn't have needed the triforce against the sages.

Yes, you're ignorant I agree.

That is what I said before. By reviving I mean using their zombie form but he can bring back Shao Kahn if his body is destroyed. Quan Chi has the powers to probably remake anyone just like Scorpion but I only argue with what I have seen him do and his capabilities.

It's a theory. That's it.

You make this harder on yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am arguing based off of game mechanics, abilities, and common sense. Link doesn't have greater pure strength feats either. Pushing something that's really heavy isn't as impressive as ripping someone's head off which by the way directly relates to a fight unlike lifting strength.

I can't believe you actually think throwing multiple tons is weaker than tearing off someone's head. Hey, common sense actually says no to that one. Besides, game mechanics are kinda frowned upon here.

No, in stories we've seen them do otherwise and my arguments aren't strictly limited to gameplay I just expose your hypocritical Link is too strong argument by how he is consistently portrayed throughout the game. If he was some super strong feat he'd be portrayed as one. Whatever strength he has his enemies can deal with hence Link's skill training and sword. Link isn't stronger combat wise and lifting strength doesn't directly correlate into combat strength.

The thing that you're ignoring is that Link is portrayed as super strong.

You don't know if he can beat any mker in skill. That's the funniest part of your debating you making claims you haven't the foggiest clue about. I see and go through the entire game and at no point was he so powerful he simply outclassed his enemies due to strength or skill. It was always a combination of the two and even then he wasn't beyond them all just destined to win. You didn't answer my question. How long do you feel the game takes place...gimme a time frame.

Link usually does outclass his enemies, though, since he tends to go up against quite a few at a time, can beat them in like one or two hits, then destroys giant monsters. As for an estimate of time, wouldn't that be speculating? I'd say a few weeks, though. Oh, and Link instantly masters items and techniques as soon as he uses them, but it takes MK characters YEARS to learn to fight. LQTM.

You didn't prove it you keep restating but you don't have any game creator's word here backing up your theory so your theory remains just a theory.

Try using that common sense you're always talking about. Gorons are stated to be made of rock. That much rock is extremely heavy, the math already shows you just how heavy it is.

Dorf doesn't have the same experiences as each dorf so you don't even understand what an alternate reality is. This dorf's experiences we saw. Point blank.

Finish Ocarina of Time, and you will realize that they did, in fact, have several of the same experiences.

I don't think so and I honestly believe outside a few exceptions the creators have leeway to change things however they want. It's fans which want to make sense of it all.

There are, at most, 2 Ganondorfs in the 2 alternate timelines. However, the Ganondorf in Twilight Princess shares the first portion of Ocarina of Time's Ganondorf. This is canon, and if you would finish Ocarina of Time I could explain it to you.

I've already explained why and when I think he comes back. You disagree but that's as far as this goes. It's just going to turn into this back and forth thing on this topic.

You're still denying that lying on the ground on fire means dead. This is silliness.

We don't know exactly but for arguments sake it's relatively close by since the tournament took place right after Onaga came back. Either way raiden can return under his own power.

'k, so an estimate? How long do you think it took, since you're making me tell you how long Twilight Princess was?

Leave it be if I do go back and beat it I will debate oot so much it'll make your head spin.

What you're not getting is that Ocarina of Time is relevant to every single Zelda game to come after it. You cannot debate any of them without at least passing knowledge of Ocarina of Time's ending. Heck, it is common knowledge to anyone who plays Zelda.

People do but people rarely enter a debate they know very little of. If they do it shows. I have entered evidence but like I said it's not wise to debate something you aren't familiar with as it just seems you are arguing out of personal preference.

I am, but that's also because I legitimately think that the Twilight Princess crew can win. I've looked up plenty of MK information.

It's unclear and I recall you claiming Dorf brought the castle down before. You seem to be changing your tune as you have changed your mind as well. Either way it's speculation.

I took a closer look at the evidence. Besides, the evidence, once you put it together, speaks for itself.

Not really that impressive when you consider the circumstances.

That a guy still exploded.

This is your theory but again there's no proof to it nor is there any proof what happened to dorf and what part hit him if any.

There is proof. I've shown you the proof. Ignoring it doesn't help you at this point.

Hammering modern day earth is superior to any conquering feats of dorf in this game. The guy was easily beat by 7 sages. Shao Kahn won a battle between all the combatants of the mk mythos and has survive complete annihilation as well. His magic is so powerful it brings back Shang Tsung through death. The villains in mk are far craftier than the loz villains as they can never defeat the hero unlike those in the mk verse.

See, here's where the research I did comes in. They didn't hammer modern day earth. All that happened was merging Outrealm with Earthrealm killed everyone Raiden wasn't protecting. So nobody ever fought that stuff.

There's a different between being killed and being defeated. If he could easily come back from a mortal wound he wouldn't have needed the triforce against the sages.

That's just when the Triforce first activated. For the final time, the Triforce of Power does not glow every time Ganondorf uses his powers. It doesn't glow every time he shoots and energy blast, does it? Does it glow when he makes barriers? How about portals? No. It doesn't even glow when he transforms into Beast Ganon. So it doesn't have to glow for him to use it to come back.

That is what I said before. By reviving I mean using their zombie form but he can bring back Shao Kahn if his body is destroyed. Quan Chi has the powers to probably remake anyone just like Scorpion but I only argue with what I have seen him do and his capabilities.

That's what I'm doing, too. Zant and Ganondorf both revive, and both have displayed the ability to make undead. Heck, Ganondorf summons 7 Phantoms Ganons at once in the horseback fight. Zant revived Stallord and can make Shadow Beasts easily. There's really not that much of a difference.

It's a theory. That's it.

Gravity is a theory, if you want to get technical. I have the evidence to prove it.

Originally posted by The Scenario
I can't believe you actually think throwing multiple tons is weaker than tearing off someone's head. Hey, common sense actually says no to that one. Besides, game mechanics are kinda frowned upon here.

The thing that you're ignoring is that Link is portrayed as super strong.

Link usually does outclass his enemies, though, since he tends to go up against quite a few at a time, can beat them in like one or two hits, then destroys giant monsters. As for an estimate of time, wouldn't that be speculating? I'd say a few weeks, though. Oh, and Link instantly masters items and techniques as soon as he uses them, but it takes MK characters YEARS to learn to fight. LQTM.

Try using that common sense you're always talking about. Gorons are stated to be made of rock. That much rock is extremely heavy, the math already shows you just how heavy it is.

Finish Ocarina of Time, and you will realize that they did, in fact, have several of the same experiences.

There are, at most, 2 Ganondorfs in the 2 alternate timelines. However, the Ganondorf in Twilight Princess shares the first portion of Ocarina of Time's Ganondorf. This is canon, and if you would finish Ocarina of Time I could explain it to you.

You're still denying that lying on the ground on fire means dead. This is silliness.

'k, so an estimate? How long do you think it took, since you're making me tell you how long Twilight Princess was?

What you're not getting is that Ocarina of Time is relevant to every single Zelda game to come after it. You cannot debate any of them without at least passing knowledge of Ocarina of Time's ending. Heck, it is common knowledge to anyone who plays Zelda.

I am, but that's also because I legitimately think that the Twilight Princess crew can win. I've looked up plenty of MK information.

I took a closer look at the evidence. Besides, the evidence, once you put it together, speaks for itself.

That a guy still exploded.

There is proof. I've shown you the proof. Ignoring it doesn't help you at this point.

See, here's where the research I did comes in. They didn't hammer modern day earth. All that happened was merging Outrealm with Earthrealm killed everyone Raiden wasn't protecting. So nobody ever fought that stuff.

That's just when the Triforce first activated. For the final time, the Triforce of Power does not glow every time Ganondorf uses his powers. It doesn't glow every time he shoots and energy blast, does it? Does it glow when he makes barriers? How about portals? No. It doesn't even glow when he transforms into Beast Ganon. So it doesn't have to glow for him to use it to come back.

That's what I'm doing, too. Zant and Ganondorf both revive, and both have displayed the ability to make undead. Heck, Ganondorf summons 7 Phantoms Ganons at once in the horseback fight. Zant revived Stallord and can make Shadow Beasts easily. There's really not that much of a difference.

Gravity is a theory, if you want to get technical. I have the evidence to prove it.

Link is super strong as are mk fighters so this changes nothing. Both do things even the strongest humans can't dream of and are both capable of killing the other.

Link's fate is the reason he wins in the end which doesn't apply here since he isn't fated to defeat mk just save hyrule from dorf.

Link's enemies also aren't as skilled as he is generally. he fights gigantic monsters but not really are portrayed as having exceptional skill unlike every mk combatant. The other funny thing is you argue for the master sword which takes away from him beating dorf since it cancels out his powers and isn't a legit feat to be used against mk since the master sword can't do what it does to him according to you.

A few weeks is all it takes with the right help to free hyrule which makes sense since the army is pathetic and the armies who take it over seem not well organized and incompetent. Link doesn't instantly master them he does them once and even in the tutorial he needs to practice which is why you do the last one prior to learning the new one. You really have no concept of what occurs in the game it's you trying to put a spin on everything. Link needs to practice and performing the skill once successfully isn't mastering it. You don't even need to canonically master all the skills to beat the game. LOL.

We see them and they do consist of rock but we don't know how much rock. They aren't completely made of rock nor do they look like they are even 50 percent rock.

K, but I am sure you're wrong but will only be able to say with 100 percent certainty after I beat it myself to tell you what really happened.

So if you think there are 2 even according to you there are alternate dorfs so you agree with me.

He was defeated and needed to change so he did. Pretty simple. In video games you can turn into a human giant head but irl you'd be dead applying your real world logic. See how easy it is to expose your logic.

Within a day.

K, I am sure I will disagree but we will cross the bridge when I get there.

You don't know enough and hammering modern day earth is something hyrule isn't capable of.

No, you changed your tune after I exposed this feat frame by frame. Dorf changed shape which means we missed on what took place after we saw them and when we saw Dorf appear next.

If that's how your mind works not mine. I look at the context of the feat but I guess you don't.

Just like there was proof dorf destroyed it. One thing which is awesome I got you to abandon your old claim that it was dorf. You're still wrong but I forced you to change your mind because I'm that good.

That didn't happen in mk 9. We see the armies of earth still fighting using jets, choppers, police, etc. throughout the boards. That's awesome that outworld creatures are formidable enough to hammer moderan day missiles, modern day armies.Link just deals with arrows and some rudimentary unsophisticated bombs which doesn't compare to modern day earth.

I know it doesn't glow every time he access powers just when it resists death so twice. Glad we agree.

If you beat dorf you beat zant. There goes his powers so if you take one out you pretty much defeat the entire army since his powers made them possible. This might be the easiest war ever since without the triforce of power zant and his twili are screwed without them. Quan Chi isn't reliant on Shao Kahn and all of their powers aren't linked through one artifact. Shao Kahn would more than likely be chosen by the triforce of power anyways since he's actually competent and more powerful.

What happened off screen is a theory. I'm winning.

http://www.sturgismaterials.com/showroom.htm

^scroll down to see a 24 ton boulder.

Originally posted by The Scenario

I have seen anything overall (not just you) from hasty generalisation through to bandwagon/appeal to audiance, but mostly from you hasty generalisation, your seeing one seen and then claiming its the same for all materials despite them being unique (barrier different to Ganon) and the fact its only one source to cover an unkown scene makes it weak. How do we know she used all her power? unreasonable? I dont care if its unreasonable, it makes things crytsal clear in the MK scene, something LoZ would do good with at least when the developers are not showing whats happening.

Of Course I am, I am argueing how ambigious scene is ambigious, everything is a "maybe" and that I can draw as many conclusions from it as you can. Your trying to tell me I am wrong for no reason at all other than apprently you have "more evidence" despite were both using the same scenes. It would change because the next time we see him he has made many actions, including defeating Midna.

Asking you to prove something you cannot is not a fallacy 🙄 , and we see the strike and hear what happens after (a low growl) so all of this happening "after" the strike nonsense has been countered, it simply happens due to an unkown event thats as ambigious as most of the scene. We cannot even see midna doing what she did to the barrier, sticking her weapon into Ganon for a good 10 seconds or so and no light source indicates she started to do so. I have seen after, after Ganondorf has defeated Midna as well...the second scene implies a Ganon showing, not Midna especially since shes crushed and defeated, you seem to think the developers are sending out mixed signals.

Show me what your comparing as "beams of light" please on both videos and I will pick it apart and tell you how their nothing alike because you just seem to be claiming something is there and similiar over and over, I want to see it.

I think your baiting me with this whole "you do not have evidence" thing when I am using exactly the same stuff as you. "matter of factly" because I am mimicing you in your responses to try and make you realise how stateing opinion is not fact, and you argued against it proving me in a roundabout way correct, you just dont seem to realise what my argument is about (scene has many conlcusions, little facts, conclusions/opinions do not=fact) despite me telling you so many times.

Your error is that the Castle itself is completly different to a barrier of magic energy. Furthermore when the barrier falls apart, we see beams of light across its entire body, we see no such thing with the castle. There are so few similarities between them.

Your picking at strings of words, point being no "explosion" was evidence, no great fireball or energy blast, we just see light across the barriers entire body and it dematerialises. The whole belief it was some physical strike breaking a weaker physical object is countered immediatly by the fact it did not break on strike, but after magic energy was poured into it over the 10+ seconds Mida sat there. While that spirit is within a physical host perhaps giving MIdna something physical that she can actually touch to channel her power through.

Earlier to chided me for saying the barrier unraveled, now when I point out to you how this has to be the case you agree it unraveled but not when it did.

It outlines the argument in general, that your asking a lot of the opposition to concede to nothing but your own bias conclusions. Also, your counter post here clearly has no bearing on what I said anyway, I outlined my evidence, its the same as yours so your just trolling the whole "no evidence" point I guess.

It matches up perfectly in your opinon, having seen it I disagree, but your correct and its automatically a fact anyway? Your clearly bias, but your wrong because you belive everything you conclude is fact just because you claim to have a vast hoard of evidence nobody else is refering to 😬 , your wrong to call a conclusion fact as if its evidence for all the claims in the scene.

Where did I concede this was the case? I was simply discussing the fundamentals of how force over an area can sometimes, regardless of how incredible violent, far encumpassing etc the power over an area is compared to a single strike over a small area, which of course because of how pressure works (smaller areas of the same force more effective when intensified in one area being more potent).

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Then he chooses to be present.

Oh, so he doesn't actually have omniscience? Ah, good. Then that takes away from your argument.

That's why he doesn't stretch.

So what you're saying is, that you actually understand how much force it would take to blow up the massive Hyrule Castle, but you don't want to admit it because that would grant Zelda something powerful.

I'm paraphrasing, of course. Pushing all of the bullshit out of the way.

Again, your missing motive. Not really, theres omnipresence, then theres knowing everything in the verse apart from 1 thing....in this case, the EG knows where raziel is, where shes been, and is present in all time zones at once.

So now your argueing without reason that hes somehow in many piecies that just happen to cover each area or something like that? bringing up wild and random claims to troll me has no bearing on this thread.

What I am saying, is that a force over an area, like a bomb can destroy a castle but not something much smaller but more durable amongst said castle, therefore even if Ganon did take some force from this strike, its only enough to damage stone walls which as i have pointed out, humans, even those in MK have access to missles that>>trebs that can smash castle walls.

Speaking of bullshit, I have pushed yours and your trolling from the post. Have a nice day 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
Again, your missing motive. Not really, theres omnipresence, then theres knowing everything in the verse apart from 1 thing....in this case, the EG knows where raziel is, where shes been, and is present in all time zones at once.

Now this thing is omnipresent? And I'm the one that's supposed to be making shit up without any evidence.

Stop making shit up.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So now your argueing without reason that hes somehow in many piecies that just happen to cover each area or something like that? bringing up wild and random claims to troll me has no bearing on this thread.

No. I'm still arguing that he moves from place to place, because there is no indication he is continent sized.

Bringing up wild and random claims to troll me has no bearing on this thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What I am saying, is that a force over an area, like a bomb can destroy a castle but not something much smaller but more durable amongst said castle, therefore even if Ganon did take some force from this strike, its only enough to damage stone walls which as i have pointed out, humans, even those in MK have access to missles that>>trebs that can smash castle walls.

Considering he's the actual target of the attack, he'd take the full force of the attack, with everything else just expanding outward from him. Stop downplaying.

And stop being stupid.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Speaking of bullshit, I have pushed yours and your trolling from the post. Have a nice day 🙂

You've got three more posts to stop being an idiot and start paying attention to the facts before I just let you stew in your own bullshit.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Now this thing is omnipresent? And I'm the one that's supposed to be making shit up without any evidence.

Stop making shit up.

No. I'm still arguing that he moves from place to place, because there is no indication he is continent sized.

Bringing up wild and random claims to troll me has no bearing on this thread.

Considering he's the actual target of the attack, he'd take the full force of the attack, with everything else just expanding outward from him. Stop downplaying.

And stop being stupid.

You've got three more posts to stop being an idiot and start paying attention to the facts before I just let you stew in your own bullshit.

Sorry omnicient and I even called Raziel a female so I dont know why you did not pick up and troll that, although evidence suggests EG is present throughout all time zones however.

He cannot move from place to place because he remains A: in all areas he has been previously, if you go back to the abyss hes still there, as is the abyss, its not collapsed in because hes burrowed out of it. B: Theres no indication he moves all that mass, as I said, areas do not cave in, things hes proppign up dont fall down. C: Even if he does "burrow" his whole body which he cannot due to A and B, but your whole reason for believing this is based on Kains one statement, Kain who knows nothing of the EG but instead simply made an assessment and derrogatory statement there and then.

Also copying and pasting what I say wont make you look clever despite some poor logic behind the belief.

Not really, if the attack itself being magic based creates an expansion of energy its possible Ganon only takes the portion in his area equel to what the force has destroyed (e.g. a stone wall), your talking like this is a completly physical attack on a physical object again. Dont do it...theres no evidence for that. But again, I have yet to have it proven that Ganon even got struck and its still ambigious.

3 more posts and you promise to stop trolling me and insulting/damaging scenarios efforts in this thread? I hope thats a promise.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sorry omnicient and I even called Raziel a female so I dont know why you did not pick up and troll that, although evidence suggests EG is present throughout all time zones however.

Omniscient does not have room for mistakes and unknowns. If you do not know something, you are, by definition, not omniscient.

Evidence? Hah.

Originally posted by Burning thought
He cannot move from place to place because he remains A: in all areas he has been previously, if you go back to the abyss hes still there, as is the abyss, its not collapsed in because hes burrowed out of it. B: Theres no indication he moves all that mass, as I said, areas do not cave in, things hes proppign up dont fall down. C: Even if he does "burrow" his whole body which he cannot due to A and B, but your whole reason for believing this is based on Kains one statement, Kain who knows nothing of the EG but instead simply made an assessment and derrogatory statement there and then.

Based on what?

As I said, that does not mean he is in every place at the same time. You can refer to the Hunter example from a previous post.

This is why you're such a fool. You're still thinking the rules you refuse to allow other characters to ignore do not apply to the ones you find yourself arguing for. Hell, you're a fool for thinking your own silly little rules even matter.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also copying and pasting what I say wont make you look clever despite some poor logic behind the belief.

Trolling, not a counter.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, if the attack itself being magic based creates an expansion of energy its possible Ganon only takes the portion in his area equel to what the force has destroyed (e.g. a stone wall), your talking like this is a completly physical attack on a physical object again. Dont do it...theres no evidence for that. But again, I have yet to have it proven that Ganon even got struck and its still ambigious.

The attack, magical or not, is still focused and aimed at that single target. Magical or Physical does not change the expansion of energy outward from that single point. Stop being an idiot.

It is not ambiguous. Stop being an idiot.

Originally posted by Burning thought
3 more posts and you promise to stop trolling me and insulting/damaging scenarios efforts in this thread? I hope thats a promise.

I'll probably still troll you for shits and giggles. It's just, at that point, I won't bother repeating myself to you anymore.

You have 2 more posts to stop being an idiot.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Omniscient does not have room for mistakes and unknowns. If you do not know something, you are, by definition, not omniscient.

Evidence? Hah.

Based on what?

As I said, that does not mean he is in every place at the same time. You can refer to the Hunter example from a previous post.

This is why you're such a fool. You're still thinking the rules you refuse to allow other characters to ignore do not apply to the ones you find yourself arguing for. Hell, you're a fool for thinking your own silly little rules even matter.

Trolling, not a counter.

The attack, magical or not, is still focused and aimed at that single target. Magical or Physical does not change the expansion of energy outward from that single point. Stop being an idiot.

It is not ambiguous. Stop being an idiot.

I'll probably still troll you for shits and giggles. It's just, at that point, I won't bother repeating myself to you anymore.

You have 2 more posts to stop being an idiot.

Hence why I said he is nigh omnicient save Kain, not that its important because he still knows whats going on, he does not have to oversee anything and has no motive to do so, his only wish is to see Vampires destroyed and davour the souls of the living.

I said what thats based on in A through to C.

Of course it does, otherwise we will not see him when we go back, and the abyss, citiadel, swamp chronoplast will all be rubble, or we wont see him. Show me hunter do this, just sounds like a basic example of an NPC that has to move on for story purposes, EG does not in most if not all cases. I also bet he is a small creature, not a giantic being attached throughout meters of underground systems so I could probably list a long list of counters that make your example worthless.

Of course they apply, just not in your examples. They matter if your going to use real logic and try and convince your opposition, as I said nobody is convinced by your claims yet at least 2 people are happy to argue against them, 3-4+ when concerning the "lightning link" fiction for example.

How do you know its "focused and aimed", your making the assumption all the power we see was focused and aimed, if all the power was focused then why would it expand, since only in force such as pressure does it expand? it seems you dont know how this power works and your trying to make a feat sound better than it may be. We dont even see it happen, thats as ambigious as you can get.

Reported, both for bashing and now your even admitting your just trolling.

2 more posts until I run out of troll food anyway. Bag is cleaned out then.

Moo, shut up.

BT, shut up.

Thread, shut up.