Mortal Kombat 9 vs. Twilight Princess

Started by Burning thought27 pages

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Actually I'm playing them on what the game leads me to believe. If your brain lacks the ability to follow a line of thought, that is a problem you will eventually have to deal with.

No you don't. You see small parts of him in various places of the game, yet assume he is as big as a continent despite Kain himself saying the thing just digs through the ground in giant tunnels as we see it retreat though one of said tunnels.

I've seen him being fast, just nowhere near as fast as people make him out to be.

The scene is not ambiguous either, bro. Use your brain.

Don't even go to that bias bullshit. Lmao.

😱 Now you won't even admit that attack is what blew up the castle. The time frame fits, bro.

And then...you state the obvious as though it helps your argument, and overlook what the castle being destroyed means for the power behind the attack.

God damn, man.

I'm not calling you an idiot. I'm telling you to stop being one. Like you're playing pretend. It's very different. Your skills are impressive by the way, it's like your not even acting sometimes.

And what the game leads someone else to belive could be different, therefore your argument falls flat.

Exactly, you see piecies of him across the continent of Nosgoth, therefore hes roughply as large.

This just sounds like an angry trolls post now, its ambigious, does not prove anything and the conclusions are coming from a station of bias, making said conclusions even less useful.

Time frame? no, not really because if that attack blew up the castle we would hear an explosion, rumbles and shakes not just an growling dorf. Unfortunatly it does not put any more power behind the attack than as I said before, smashing thick stone, thats not that impressive.

Its the same thing, now your just trolling. Your upset because your fanon background of an event is not being accepted by your opposition, if you dont want to debate and want to troll then I have no time for you.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And what the game leads someone else to belive could be different, therefore your argument falls flat.

No, it cannot. Because it is designed to lead towards a specific conclusion. If they wanted to leave it open to "either one of them could have blew up the castle" Midna would have just transformed. We would not have seen her attack.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Exactly, you see piecies of him across the continent of Nosgoth, therefore hes roughply as large.

He burrows, bro. He's just as capable of travel as a mole.

Originally posted by Burning thought
This just sounds like an angry trolls post now, its ambigious, does not prove anything and the conclusions are coming from a station of bias, making said conclusions even less useful.

This just sounds like an angry trolls post now. It's ambiguous, does not prove anything and the conclusions are coming from a station of bias, making said conclusions even less useful.

Yours is a run on sentence, sir. You should fix that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Time frame? no, not really because if that attack blew up the castle we would hear an explosion, rumbles and shakes not just an growling dorf. Unfortunatly it does not put any more power behind the attack than as I said before, smashing thick stone, thats not that impressive.

There you go underestimating stone again. Especially the stone that would have to be used to construct such a massive castle.

So let's edit our old argument for you so that you won't ***** about how it doesn't fully apply.

This is like Paste's ghost kicking your ghost so hard in the ghost nuts that your house explodes.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its the same thing, now your just trolling. Your upset because your fanon background of an event is not being accepted by your opposition, if you dont want to debate and want to troll then I have no time for you.

I'm still working with what you give me, bro. If you want more, you gotta give more.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
No, it cannot. Because it is designed to lead towards a specific conclusion. If they wanted to leave it open to "either one of them could have blew up the castle" Midna would have just transformed. We would not have seen her attack.

He burrows, bro. He's just as capable of travel as a mole.

This just sounds like an angry trolls post now. It's ambig[b]uous, does not prove anything and the conclusions are coming from a station of bias, making said conclusions even less useful.

Yours is a run on sentence, sir. You should fix that.

There you go underestimating stone again. Especially the stone that would have to be used to construct such a massive castle.

So let's edit our old argument for you so that you won't ***** about how it doesn't fully apply.

This is like Paste's ghost kicking your ghost so hard in the ghost nuts that your house explodes.

I'm still working with what you give me, bro. If you want more, you gotta give more. [/B]

This is all coming from what you belive, you cannot seem to understand this does not make fact and other people may have different opinions. Why? the attack simply shows midna on the offensive, theres no real indication. I tell you one thing, if they wanted us to belive Midna made the castle explode or that this was some impressive showing for Dorf maybe they would have actually shown things happening? Perhaps at least added the sounds of a castle exploding (which btw should be thunderous, not drowned out and unheard behind a low growl).

Whats that got to do with anything? the Elder Gods tentacles multiply on screen, he burrows which makes sense how he can stretch deeper both up and down through his under mantle home...how does that mean his overall size cannot be large?

Your only counter is to correct a spelling error? If that is all you can do then why are you wasting time?

Underestimating? how strong do you think stone is? it scratches, cracks, breaks and topples against human influence. And you still have not given any evidence to suggest this is the form he can use in this battle, an intangible head that has no other uses apprently (and he may not even be able to become this head at will).

Only if its a ghost, physical force is irrelevent to it and how power expands is also irrelevent. Something exploding, like a bomb is only impressive because its physical force thats expanding out although being an explosion its area of force may do less damage than say a tank shell to a single target, ergo smashing stone even over a large area<<<penetrating something extremely durable which Midna does not show.

I am giving you plenty of my own time to argue the basis behind argueing evidence that is ambigious, the least you could do is show some respect.

Originally posted by Burning thought
This is all coming from what you belive, you cannot seem to understand this. Why? the attack simply shows midna on the offensive, theres no real indication. I tell you one thing, if they wanted us to belive Midna made the castle explode or that this was some impressive showing for Dorf maybe they would have actually [b]shown things happening? [/B]

I understand that is what you like to think. But it is simply not true. It leads to that specific conclusion.

Or maybe they did it the way they did it for artistic reasons.

God damn. I wish I actually cared enough about Twilight Princess to finish it again, or watch the video on YouTube. If I did, I could probably spot something that'd tear a massive hole in this little theory of yours.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats that got to do with anything? the Elder Gods tentacles multiply on screen, he burrows which makes sense how he can stretch deeper both up and down through his under mantle home...how does that mean his overall size cannot be large?

He could be comparatively large to like Kain or a human, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate continent size. I'd give it like 300 feet at best.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your only counter is to correct a spelling error? If that is all you can do then why are you wasting time?

Actually, I was pointing out how the way you see me thinking is pretty much the same as the way I see you thinking.

But I did it in a more creative way, hoping to lead your thinking to a specific conclusion.

In fact, I have, in a way, done it again. Can you spot it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Underestimating? how strong do you think stone is? it scratches, cracks, breaks and topples against human influence. And you still have not given any evidence to suggest this is the form he can use in this battle, an intangible head that has no other uses apprently (and he may not even be able to become this head at will).

A lot of stuff scratched, cracks, and breaks. That doesn't mean it's weak.

And actually, since he was just removed from his body, I'd argue that was Ganon's spirit. Which means he's pulling a Sephiroth fanboy's dream and willing himself alive.

This still grants Ganon the power to resist a magical attack with the power to destroy a castle. Wonderful level of durability is wonderful.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Only if its a ghost, physical force is irrelevent to it and how power expands is also irrelevent. Something exploding, like a bomb is only impressive because its physical force thats expanding out although being an explosion its area of force may do less damage than say a tank shell to a single target, ergo smashing stone even over a large area<<<penetrating something extremely durable which Midna does not show.

No, it is not. Affecting the world around it can still be used to gauge the level of power/energy or whatever in the attack. Which is why I keep telling you that because Midna's attack blew up the castle, involuntarily or otherwise, it has the power to blow up the castle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I am giving you plenty of my own time to argue the basis behind argueing evidence that is ambigious, the least you could do is show some respect.

Fair enough, provided you will stop wasting my time and actually try to understand these points. Hell, ignore me and actually try to understand Scenario for all I care.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I understand that is what you like to think. But it is simply not true. It leads to that specific conclusion.

Or maybe they did it the way they did it for artistic reasons.

God damn. I wish I actually cared enough about Twilight Princess to finish it again, or watch the video on YouTube. If I did, I could probably spot something that'd tear a massive hole in this little theory of yours.

He could be comparatively large to like Kain or a human, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate continent size. I'd give it like 300 feet at best.

Actually, I was pointing out how the way you see me thinking is pretty much the same as the way I see you thinking.

But I did it in a more creative way, hoping to lead your thinking to a specific conclusion.

In fact, I have, in a way, done it again. Can you spot it?

A lot of stuff scratched, cracks, and breaks. That doesn't mean it's weak.

And actually, since he was just removed from his body, I'd argue that was Ganon's spirit. Which means he's pulling a Sephiroth fanboy's dream and willing himself alive.

This still grants Ganon the power to resist a magical attack with the power to destroy a castle. Wonderful level of durability is wonderful.

No, it is not. Affecting the world around it can still be used to gauge the level of power/energy or whatever in the attack. Which is why I keep telling you that because Midna's attack blew up the castle, involuntarily or otherwise, it has the power to blow up the castle.

Fair enough, provided you will stop wasting my time and actually try to understand these points. Hell, ignore me and actually try to understand Scenario for all I care.

of course its true, because your word or anyone elses is not fact on a scene thats not specifically shown.

Their all little theories, problem is you dont understand that, you belive everything you or scenario have theorised or concluded make it fact, this does not work....

How could he stretch from the Abyss, Vampire citidel or the swamp if he was only 300 feet, your not making any sense and by trying to lowball something thats not ambigious purposefully to "attempt" an unfair comparison is illogical and will not convince me of your view.

No I cannot, speak plainly please.

If its stretching, cracking or breaking then what is making it do so is stronger than it, human contraptions, even basic ones like the Warwolf trebuchet (I dont even need to bring up modern shells or bombs) can smash castle walls.

Erm, no again these are all assumptions, his spirit being a sentient extension of his physical body sort of ruins the durability, since its arguable unless spiritual attacks are involved whether or not hes resisting anything since dont forget, midna did not even harm Dorf by the looks of it, its a factor to take into account that what she did could not by its nature even touch him.

In that form he can survive>stone walls, I think the MK side have access to bombs and higher tech weaponry so i highly doubt they cannot breach a castle wall.

Explain this, how can this possibly make a difference? the physical effects on physical objects against a non physical entity? does not work.

I fully understand you ,infact its the other way around. You seem to think I am argueing for a specific cirumstance to happen during the castle scene, when in truth my argument is that a factual conclusion cannot be wrought and I am argueing the errors in your debating style to try and make you realise nobody has to accept your conclusions no matter how believable/likely you think they are when a scene does not show what your asking for.

The scene does not show the feat, the feat can only be "theorised" on what happened and therefore, your argument rests on whether or not your opposition find your thesis credible. Hence why on KMC, I dont think you should even bother using it, Quanchi is never going to accept it and tbh neither would I because so little is shown and too many assumptions are required.

Originally posted by Burning thought
of course its true, because your word or anyone elses is not fact on a scene thats not specifically shown.

Intentionally lead thinking.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Their all little theories, problem is you dont understand that, you belive everything you or scenario have theorised or concluded make it fact, this does not work....

Same response as above.

Originally posted by Burning thought
How could he stretch from the Abyss, Vampire citidel or the swamp if he was only 300 feet, your not making any sense and by trying to lowball something thats not ambigious purposefully to "attempt" an unfair comparison is illogical and will not convince me of your view.

He can't. He's in those places because he can tunnel through the ground and make his way through underground tunnels that are already there. Stop trying to theorize something that you can't see.

See what I did there?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No I cannot, speak plainly please.

I attempted to intentionally lead your thinking to coming across the point I have been throwing at you for the duration of our time today.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If its stretching, cracking or breaking then what is making it do so is stronger than it, human contraptions, even basic ones like the Warwolf trebuchet (I dont even need to bring up modern shells or bombs) can smash castle walls.

Oh, so you're underestimating stone and humans at the same time.

Sir, trebuchets are a marvel of engineering. They hurl stones of great weight into stone walls of greater weight, in an effort to smash them. But, as was pointed out the last time you got on this subject, that rarely actually happened. Not to mention, being basic doesn't mean it's unimpressive. Take a physics class or a basic science class and learn about simple machines.

I also recommend some geology learnin' to get some know how about stones. You might learn, for example, that while your fingernail is capable of scratching some kinds of stone, you can't necessarily smash it with your bare hands.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Erm, no again these are all assumptions, his spirit being a sentient extension of his physical body sort of ruins the durability, since its arguable unless spiritual attacks are involved whether or not hes resisting anything since dont forget, midna did not even harm Dorf by the looks of it, its a factor to take into account that what she did could not by its nature even touch him.

Midna's immaterial attack is immaterial, as said by you. Too late to take it back now, sir.

Yeah, Midna not even harming Ganon is kind of the point.

Originally posted by Burning thought
In that form he can survive>stone walls, I think the MK side have access to bombs and higher tech weaponry so i highly doubt they cannot breach a castle wall.

You'd be surprised. I've seen guys take cannonballs to the chest, after they've been fired from the cannon.

Using your logic, a cannon has no chance to break a castle wall. 'cause Flesh is stronger than cannons, right? 😄

Originally posted by Burning thought
Explain this, how can this possibly make a difference? the physical effects on physical objects against a non physical entity? does not work.

Bro, I'm not saying Ganon has that level of physical durability. I'm saying the attack has power equivalent to what is needed to blow up a castle. This means Ganon can take attacks with the power to blow up a castle.

Ironically, this makes him unkillable to the MK cast anyway. All their energy attacks are magic, right?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I fully understand you ,infact its the other way around. You seem to think I am argueing for a specific cirumstance to happen during the castle scene, when in truth my argument is that a factual conclusion cannot be wrought and I am argueing the errors in your debating style to try and make you realise nobody has to accept your conclusions no matter how believable/likely you think they are when a scene does not show what your asking for.

I understand what you're trying to do just fine. It just doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Quanchi is never going to accept it and tbh neither would I because so little is shown and too many assumptions are required.

Only part of that last paragraph that I haven't been responding to so far.

I don't particularly care what Quan accepts. I can't do this for as long as I have been and expect to change you or his opinions.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Intentionally lead thinking.

Same response as above.

He can't. He's in those places because he can tunnel through the ground and make his way through underground tunnels that are already there. Stop trying to theorize something that you can't see.

See what I did there?

I attempted to intentionally lead your thinking to coming across the point I have been throwing at you for the duration of our time today.

Oh, so you're underestimating stone and humans at the same time.

Sir, trebuchets are a marvel of engineering. They hurl stones of great weight into stone walls of greater weight, in an effort to smash them. But, as was pointed out the last time you got on this subject, that rarely actually happened. Not to mention, being basic doesn't mean it's unimpressive. Take a physics class or a [b]basic science class and learn about simple machines.

I also recommend some geology learnin' to get some know how about stones. You might learn, for example, that while your fingernail is capable of scratching some kinds of stone, you can't necessarily smash it with your bare hands.

Midna's immaterial attack is immaterial, as said by you. Too late to take it back now, sir.

Yeah, Midna not even harming Ganon is kind of the point.

You'd be surprised. I've seen guys take cannonballs to the chest, after they've been fired from the cannon.

Using your logic, a cannon has no chance to break a castle wall. 'cause Flesh is stronger than cannons, right? 😄

Bro, I'm not saying Ganon has that level of physical durability. I'm saying the attack has power equivalent to what is needed to blow up a castle. This means Ganon can take attacks with the power to blow up a castle.

Ironically, this makes him unkillable to the MK cast anyway. All their energy attacks are magic, right?

I understand what you're trying to do just fine. It just doesn't work that way.

Only part of that last paragraph that I haven't been responding to so far.

I don't particularly care what Quan accepts. I can't do this for as long as I have been and expect to change you or his opinions. [/B]

I dont know what you mean with those replies.

You tried to grab a completly unrelated article, something you dont understand, have made up a random figuire for its size in a bad attempt at making a comparison thats illogical. Thats what you did there, we see cirumstances around the Elder God consistently throughout all the games.

So are guns and bombs, even more so and more modern and powerful as well. I would like to see the castle take a JDM and survive, you miss the point that MK is equiped with bombs and iirc guns in some cases as well, dont they have a guy with robot arms that can pound through things?

I know what trebs do, hence my example 🙄 , but try doing that to Kratos, Kain or Dante, you will not get much of an effect but apprently its Dorfs best feat in a roundabout kind of way, probably less impressive than a treb.

I recomend some logic puzzles so you can better discern the point of a given argument.

Your assuming its because hes durable, another assumption among many but since hes immaterial, that could be another reason.

I would love to see a man take a L55 Leopard 2 HE round to the chest....

Theres no gauge on what a magics "power" to blow up a castle is purely because it blowing the castle unlike physical force does not mean it has to have concentrated on a point first, like an AoE spell that does the same exact damage over an area.

I know it does not work that way hence why I am trying to make you realise how it should work, you should be using suitable evidence that actually backs your claims, rather than having to make up theories on the go to prop up your own evidence AND your argument ,otherwise its just going to collapse.

Then why are you posting? since thats all that actually counts, you will just be wasting time if you dont even expect to convince anyone. Even I despite the trolls I have had to argue with "attempt" to convince, although I admit I would not use blank scenes and attempt to lay off theories as facts to fill them in.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Youve presented evidence that does not convince me (or Quanchi) so considering we are the opposition I think the fact we disagree makes the evidence lacking rather than invalid, although tbh a lot of it is unrelated, you still cannot get past the fact the events are not actually shown. Only the light here is actually seen, and very different to what your claiming is light in the castle (and very different to the lightning). You do not seem to understand what an explosion is, no huge blast of force comes from Midna when she strikes the barrier, it simply glows with light then falls away.

Not convincing the two of you does not really reflect badly on me or the evidence. I think the problem here is that I'm presenting what I think happened, but that's irrelevant to the overall result, which is "Ganondorf was in a castle when it exploded." If Midna destroyed the castle, cool, he was still inside. If it was both of them, cool, he was still inside. If it was just Ganondorf, cool, he was still inside. The point is that he was there regardless. I just have evidence that says Midna did it. The light is similar, there is a rumble, and there's an explosion throwing stuff stuff everywhere in both cases.


1) Because Midna ends up defeated, if he was sitting there for the rest of the scene he could not have appeard before Link and Zelda. We dont hear him do "nothing", we hear Midnas attack do "nothing" however. Your the one assuming what he did and when, as soon as the screen goes dark and consideirng the timeing is unclear its up in the air.

Yes, Midna was defeated after she attacked, and all evidence points to that attack destroying the castle. We hear him growling, otherwise known as "doing nothing" and we know from barrier bust that Midna's attack doesn't make a ton of noise immediately anyway, so no explosion sound before the scene change is justified. I'm not assuming anything, I'm concluding that growling means he hadn't yet moved during the attack.


2) We dont see it, so theres no video evidence only your assumption that it was the same attack and was indeed midna. There are no simularities, mainly because she did not make an explosion on the barrier, the rumble was nothing compared to the castles and was still not heard on strike.

We saw enough to put it together with the barrier seeing as they are very similar. There was a comparable rumbling, and a visibly explosive force pushing the barrier away in pieces. At best, the extremely minor differences are a result of different materials and a more powerful strike. Otherwise, the similarities are too much to ignore.


3) Hes not used "thin bolts" therefore they cant be his lightning, Midna has never used bolts before at all and Midnas light in general is completly different to a thin bolt of lightning, stop reaching...and theres a lot of sound when the castle explodes, ergo, Midnas strike did nothing but make Ganon "growl"

The light at Hyrule Castle barely looks like lightning, it's much closer to Midna's known light than some lightning we've never seen before yet you assume is Ganondorf's for some reason. And I've addressed that, based on the barrier attack lacking sound and the explosion was slightly delayed, it's likely just because the shockwave was hitting stone.


4) Well I am sorry but it is different, youve got Midna striking a magic based barrier falling apart, we have midna thrusting a weapon at another form of ganondorf, and we have midna squeezing Zelda to remove possession, these are all very different. Also what are you argueing? above it seems your trying to argue theres a delay in the rumble and explosion, which is why we do not hear it/see it when the strike happens. AT the same time your argueing Ganon sat there until the castle exploded and his own counter to defeat Midna was unkown....

Except for the magic barrier not falling apart. Then them being mostly the same regardless. The effects on the castle do, in fact, match up with the effects seen on the barrier, and whatever minor nitpicks there are can be explained by different materials. The fact that initial strike did not explode immediately also matches the barrier, since we see the weapon pierce it before the force starts blowing the barrier apart. Since we hear Ganondorf growling throughout the scene, there is reason to believe he did not move, unless you can provide evidence that he did move. I don't know what Ganondorf did, since there isn't evidence for that. We know he beat Midna after she attacked, but that's it.


New rules, youve never heard of stronger magic nullifying weaker magic before? 😕 , its not even a rule, its common sense. Much the same but shes striking something completly different, with a different weapon, with different light and effects in play......who are you to claim what Midna does? your claiming earlier that Midna can spear immaterial Ganondorf and that her squeezing Zelda free of possession is your evidence for this, it seems your getting lost in your own argument here.

Not in Zelda, whose magic system we are currently discussing. In Zelda, hitting magic with magic weapons tend to just break stuff. Hitting Ganondorf with a light arrow doesn't nullify his magic, it just hurts him. Any other time a barrier has been taken down it has been through a spell that makes it go away, no magic weapons involved. Midna is not using a spell, she is using an actual weapon, a weapon designed to hurt, break, or destroy things, not just turn them off. You can clearly see she hit it and it broke, she did not just say "lleps tihsllub" and make it go away. Your claim goes against every example of magic ever seen in the Zelda series. Midna has proved that her Fused Shadow body can touch Ganondorf's spirit when she unpossessed Zelda, therefor her Fused Shadow weapon can also hurt Ganondorf's spirit, very simple. And since her attack on the barrier matches up with the castle destruction, it's more than likely she did it, and thus Ganondorf tanked an attack that destroyed a castle or the castle busting itself. That, however, is only under your assumption that Ganondorf was immaterial there, which is unproven. There, very simple, are you sure you're not lost?


Is it? where? your description is that it shimmers with magic when Link attempts to get in no? and Midnas weapon and the light is magic, if it was a pure physical wall you cannot hit a sheet of metal with a hammer, leave it there like Midna did with the spear until it breaks into piecies seconds later, thats not how a solid metal works. Its your claim that their physical piecies and your claim that they did not dissipate/lose magic power, I am the one claiming they melted away as their magic unraveled and the evidence seems to show this.

Not quite, I don't think you understand. Hitting a metal wall with a good enough spear to pierce it is good, followed by the explosion we see pushing the barrier outward in hundreds of pieces is better. See why I said shrapnel. She hit it with a magic weapon and broke it with explosive force, how you can deny this is beyond me. I never claimed they were physical pieces. I said that it reacted to physical hits, so it obviously has a limit of physical punishment and Midna's spear hit it and exploded it. I never said anything about them staying after the barrier broke, that sounds like a stupid strawman. The pieces do disappear, indicating that they did unravel, but it's clear that it only happened after the barrier they were connected to was broken.


Hang on, no you have not, you have claimed and made assumptions then told me their fact apprently for Ganon tanking. Thats not "showing me" he did it. Matches the barrier? again different light, different timing, the Castle does not just fall away over time as a light beam comes from it, it actually explodes from a lightning bolt, including smoke, there was no smoke from the barrier. Yes because my opponent telling me I am wrong and their right is really going to convince me, the only thing thats true is that you love holding on for grim death on failing points as if thats going to eventually convince anyone of your claim.

Same light, same timing, same rumble, same explosive force, your denial does not change all of this. I have said that different materials can account for differences (such as smoke,) but there are still too many similarities for mere coincidence. All you're doing is nitpicking without even trying to debate, and I would call you out for this had I not done the same thing a few weeks ago. Me not convincing you about something Zelda related in not a surprise, nor is you being just as stubborn in this as me. Simply hating Zelda is not really grounds for disagreement here, sorry.


I would be surprised if the MK crew have as few durability feats or are as ambigious but QUanchi can argue that, Mortal Kombat isn ot my forte.

That's nice, but I'm afraid Zelda is not your forte, either. Why do you insist on denying every word I type on a subject you are less than an expert on?


Whats with the Banter? you both realise when this forum has no unbias judging system in place (and few unbias members for that matter) theres no winner unless you can convince the other of your claims?

None of us will convince the other. This is a fact. The only way this thread will end is if it gets locked, one of us gives up, or there's a real life issue that prevents further argument. In fact, this is barely even about the match anymore. This is a contest of wills, seeing which of us will break first, which of us isn't quite as stubborn as the others, which of us has the most time to waste on this trivial nonsense. In short, this thread is stupid and we're all stupid for participating in it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, my argument applies the same logic for Link and mk fighters. Both can cut their opponents heads off but when fighting someone equally skilled or what not it depends on having the opportunity. Link isn't some super strong badass that enemies cower in front of he's someone who gets the job done but isn't a genetic freak unable to be dealt with.

You're just using game mechanics, though, which don't really count for anything. Link still shows much greater strength than anyone of Mortal Kombat.


Mkers have combat feats in relation to each other. Basic abilities and fatalities are still within their repertoires. Link doesn't have to use a boomerang in a cinema to know he can hurl a boomerang at you. Just like here an mker doesn't have to perform a fatality in continuity to show he can do so.

True, but according to your portrayal nonsense, that still means MK characters can only use fatalities at the end of a fight, but I've shown you Link can decapitate an enemy instantly. That game mechanic puts him above your game mechanic. Of course, since game mechanics aren't canon it just means Link's still stronger because he has feats.


Link hasn't been shown or taught that much skill just a few techniques from the ancient hero. How long do you feel the game' events take with regards to time ? Mkers have been training for years to hone their craft and can jump far higher and stay in the air far longer than Link can as well. Skillwise Link would be laughed at.

Except you're forgetting that Link has explicit Chosen One powers that say he's always increasing in power and has the power of the ancient hero before him. Link has been shown to instantly master any technique or item shown to him. He can match any MK character in skill.


You can't prove it so you can't use it as evidence. That's how debating goes.

I already proved it multiple times. Ignoring it won't make it go away.


No, they don't remain essentially the same. I also played through a huge portion of oot, beat alltp, and played part 1 through when I was a kid as well though I didn't beat it. Oh yeah I beat part 2 as well. I don't think I need to play through them all to realize this tp and the actions of dorf don't require a precursor to any game.

You need to beat OoT to know how this works, so get on that. Aside from that, Ganondorf is always the same guy.


We see in this game the triforce of power chooses him he doesn't even need to physically possess it. We see these events make it clear dorf's only time in hyrule was brief and we see his return making any other dorf's actions separate from tp.

So close. You've almost got it, but not quite yet. It chose him here, true, but since he always returns, it's still the same guy as in pretty much all the other games. He's just younger here, but the Triforce of Power is still the same.


Dorf only came back once. The other times you keep referencing are you misinterpreting the game. It's clear when he needs to come back to life he looks to the triforce which he does twice. Once it fails.

How do you know it's not you misinterpreting the game? I mean, you're the one that seems to believe that lying on the ground on fire and not moving means he's just resting or something. Once against the Sages, once after Beast Ganon was killed. Maybe one after Midna scattered his particles. At least twice, though.


Raiden came back for the tournament. He was in deception still. He wasn't corrupted he just got darker and gave less leeway to earth's champions. He didn't pull his punches and either way it's a plus for mk for him to be darker.

How long was that timeframe? Was it near instant like Ganondorf or several days?


Dorf's actions in oot aren't canon to tp dorf since we see everything he's done basically triforce of power and on since his return.

Everything he did before getting the Triforce of Power in OoT is canon to Twilight Princess. Finish OoT and you will see how this works. Anyone who knows anything about Zelda would know this.


Not conceding no. I am not here to educate you on mk that's on you since you stepped into an mk debate. I don't ask people to take me by the hand when I enter a comic book versus debate. If you enter a fight with very little knowledge it's up to you to educate yourself.

I have. You need to provide evidence. What, people don't post scans in Comic vs. ?


We don't see the castle explode till moments later. If it happened that quickly dorf should still be in head form but he wasn't. You're unclear on the details as it doesn't happen instantaneously.

This has been explained already. Compare Midna attacking the barrier to the attack in Hyrule Castle. It all fits, but whatever happened after the attack I can't tell you.


Yeah, one guy who was unprepared and when he fought someone else he failed to do so just like Midna. So like I said an unproven sage who was shocked at dorf breaking free it isn't as impressive as you make it.

One guy who exploded. That's still impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't know what happened that brought the castle down. We also know Dorf changed shapes so it's unclear what happened since we didn't see enough. You can guess but it will always be a guess.

I've shown you what happened multiple times. Midna's attack on the castle is identical to her attack on the barrier, and each of the effects matches up. See see Midna attack, and the castle explodes.


Dorf can be killed and shapeshifting can't change that fact. End of story. Unlike Dorf Shao Kahn has conquered other worlds and stayed atop the mountain for some time whereas Dorf was soundly defeated twice with no reign or a very short reign.

Continue story. Ganondorf can revive himself, and has does so at least twice so far. He can shapeshift as well and his feats are superior to Shao Kahn's regardless of your ignorance of context.


That form was defeated hence he changed forms. When he's mortally wounded the power comes into the play from the triforce.

See, you can't say that because there's an example of him coming back without the Triforce glowing, and you can't just handwave it away by saying Beast Ganon wasn't killed when he clearly was.


Guesswork.

Ignorance.


They will have an army and Quan Chi can revive anyone who dies.

That's not what you said before. LQTM. Ganondorf has revived extinct species before, he's got the better feats.


We don't see what happens while he's in head form to when he's in human form so it's a guess. It's just the way it is.

It's a conclusion based on evidence. Big difference there.


I'm here to help you. Join my hand and admit defeat.

Never, you monster! You can't help me! You can't help anyone!

Originally posted by The Scenario
Not convincing the two of you does not really reflect badly on me or the evidence. I think the problem here is that I'm presenting what I think happened, but that's irrelevant to the overall result, which is "Ganondorf was in a castle when it exploded." If Midna destroyed the castle, cool, he was still inside. If it was both of them, cool, he was still inside. If it was just Ganondorf, cool, he was still inside. The point is that he was there regardless. I just have evidence that says Midna did it. The light is similar, there is a rumble, and there's an explosion throwing stuff stuff everywhere in both cases.

Yes, Midna was defeated after she attacked, and all evidence points to that attack destroying the castle. We hear him growling, otherwise known as "doing nothing" and we know from barrier bust that Midna's attack doesn't make a ton of noise immediately anyway, so no explosion sound before the scene change is justified. I'm not assuming anything, I'm concluding that growling means he hadn't yet moved during the attack.

We saw enough to put it together with the barrier seeing as they [b]are very similar. There was a comparable rumbling, and a visibly explosive force pushing the barrier away in pieces. At best, the extremely minor differences are a result of different materials and a more powerful strike. Otherwise, the similarities are too much to ignore.

The light at Hyrule Castle barely looks like lightning, it's much closer to Midna's known light than some lightning we've never seen before yet you assume is Ganondorf's for some reason. And I've addressed that, based on the barrier attack lacking sound and the explosion was slightly delayed, it's likely just because the shockwave was hitting stone.

Except for the magic barrier not falling apart. Then them being mostly the same regardless. The effects on the castle do, in fact, match up with the effects seen on the barrier, and whatever minor nitpicks there are can be explained by different materials. The fact that initial strike did not explode immediately also matches the barrier, since we see the weapon pierce it before the force starts blowing the barrier apart. Since we hear Ganondorf growling throughout the scene, there is reason to believe he did not move, unless you can provide evidence that he did move. I don't know what Ganondorf did, since there isn't evidence for that. We know he beat Midna after she attacked, but that's it.

Not in Zelda, whose magic system we are currently discussing. In Zelda, hitting magic with magic weapons tend to just break stuff. Hitting Ganondorf with a light arrow doesn't nullify his magic, it just hurts him. Any other time a barrier has been taken down it has been through a spell that makes it go away, no magic weapons involved. Midna is not using a spell, she is using an actual weapon, a weapon designed to hurt, break, or destroy things, not just turn them off. You can clearly see she hit it and it broke, she did not just say "lleps tihsllub" and make it go away. Your claim goes against every example of magic ever seen in the Zelda series. Midna has proved that her Fused Shadow body can touch Ganondorf's spirit when she unpossessed Zelda, therefor her Fused Shadow weapon can also hurt Ganondorf's spirit, very simple. And since her attack on the barrier matches up with the castle destruction, it's more than likely she did it, and thus Ganondorf tanked an attack that destroyed a castle or the castle busting itself. That, however, is only under your assumption that Ganondorf was immaterial there, which is unproven. There, very simple, are you sure you're not lost?

Not quite, I don't think you understand. Hitting a metal wall with a good enough spear to pierce it is good, followed by the explosion we see pushing the barrier outward in hundreds of pieces is better. See why I said shrapnel. She hit it with a magic weapon and broke it with explosive force, how you can deny this is beyond me. I never claimed they were physical pieces. I said that it reacted to physical hits, so it obviously has a limit of physical punishment and Midna's spear hit it and exploded it. I never said anything about them staying after the barrier broke, that sounds like a stupid strawman. The pieces do disappear, indicating that they did unravel, but it's clear that it only happened after the barrier they were connected to was broken. [/B]

It does when we are the opposition, what do you have when the only people who agree are on your side of the argument? nothing....until youve convinced me or more importantly Quanchi (who is debating that MK win I assume) you have failed. Thats not impressive, human beings have survived structural damage and being buried under the rubble and their not immaterial, magic or floating disembodied heads. You have theories from your own bias conclusions, not much evidence tbh, also looking back you can see the same "grey" screen phase out thats before the scene change in the castle explosion at the end of the barrier scene as well, so it seems it is simply a screen fade out. So no light, rumble or explosion with the Midna strike.

Since when is growling doing nothing, I can growl while sitting on the toilet, dancing or typing this to you, I have no reason not to belive Ganon with all his power can attack. It does not make much noise or explode, or create smoke in the barrier scene either tbh, although I admit theres a slight shake.

The only simularity is she speared it and there was some light vibration (as opposed to castle shaking rumbling), other than that the barrier scene is completly different.

Its not light at all, its a screen phase out. I am talking about the actual lightning that starts at 2:30 in the castle vid.

Stop all this "if you can provide evidence" rubbish because you have provided no evidence to suggest what has happened either, only what you "belive", just because a barrier fell away after being pierced over a duration makes no indication that this is the same, we see no light, and this is not a barrier of magic, its Ganon/physicla castle. The fact the explosion may not have happened immediatly according to you makes for the fact Ganon may have not even been there and may have teleported out before it went off.

The weapon is simply her magic, or the magic of the fused shadows, same thing basically. It did not break when she hit it, the energy come from the blade and the barrier also shined with light all over, thats not an explosion that looks like a similiar reaction to ice when its molecules/partecles break apart during melting. Shes proven she can grab a possessed being and force Ganon out with her own power, not that she can touch his immaterial form. We can see hes immaterial, you can see right through him infact, hes nothing more than what looks like dark flames.

Because it did not explode as the force hit it, she left it there as the magic nullified the barrier. If she just hit it quickly one and it shatterd instantly in an audiable explosion you may have a point but this does not happen. So you accept that they unravel their magic, good, were getting somewhere.

Originally posted by The Scenario
Same light, same timing, same rumble, same explosive force, your denial does not change all of this. I have said that different materials can account for differences (such as smoke,) but there are still too many similarities for mere coincidence. All you're doing is nitpicking without even trying to debate, and I would call you out for this had I not done the same thing a few weeks ago. Me not convincing you about something Zelda related in not a surprise, nor is you being just as stubborn in this as me. Simply hating Zelda is not really grounds for disagreement here, sorry.

That's nice, but I'm afraid Zelda is not your forte, either. Why do you insist on denying every word I type on a subject you are less than an expert on?

None of us will convince the other. This is a fact. The only way this thread will end is if it gets locked, one of us gives up, or there's a real life issue that prevents further argument. In fact, this is barely even about the match anymore. This is a contest of wills, seeing which of us will break first, which of us isn't quite as stubborn as the others, which of us has the most time to waste on this trivial nonsense. In short, this thread is stupid and we're all stupid for participating in it.

It means your unconvcincing. Stressing your own version of truth and trying to stuff it down my throat is not going to make a difference. Your still throwing and jumbling conclusions together. All these "similarities", such as what? the same weapon being used....thats about it. When did I say I hated Zelda? I admit I dont like the look of it but what I really dont like is the baseless arguments based on fan made conclusions, especially when these conclusions are not even seen.

Because my whole argument is based on not what actually happened but more on why evidence that has to have theories and conclusions from the fans backing it (because little is actually shown on screen) is poor evidence and will not convince. Further, I am simply discussing this scene or lack therof not Zelda in general.

Indeed, I agree with you here. Although this can be said for every thread made that has any real long term debate/discussion.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont know what you mean with those replies.

I don't know how you can't know what I mean. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
You tried to grab a completly unrelated article, something you dont understand, have made up a random figuire for its size in a bad attempt at making a comparison thats illogical. Thats what you did there, we see cirumstances around the Elder God consistently throughout all the games.

And yet, you are doing what you have spent this day criticizing me for, assuming something without actually seeing it.

I don't care what size it actually is, lol. Feat less creature is feat less anyway.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So are guns and bombs, even more so and more modern and powerful as well. I would like to see the castle take a JDM and survive, you miss the point that MK is equiped with bombs and iirc guns in some cases as well, dont they have a guy with robot arms that can pound through things?

Depends what you mean by powerful. Modern has no real benefits either, aside from being easier to access and use.

I'll admit Jaxx can punch through a castle wall when I see him punch through something of equivalent durability. Assuming he can do it without actually seeing it is you contradicting yourself yet again.

Just like old times.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I know what trebs do, hence my example 🙄 , but try doing that to Kratos, Kain or Dante, you will not get much of an effect but apprently its Dorfs best feat in a roundabout kind of way, probably less impressive than a treb.

Trebuchets don't blow up castles.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I recomend some logic puzzles so you can better discern the point of a given argument.

I recommend some logic puzzles so you can better discern the point of a given argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your assuming its because hes durable, another assumption among many but since hes immaterial, that could be another reason.

Now you're assuming Midna is stupid. Good job.

If Ganon can take an attack like that, he is durable. Now you're denying basic logic? What the ****, bro?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I would love to see a man take a L55 Leopard 2 HE round to the chest....

That's something for you and your therapist to talk about. And while I have been known to counsel people I like, well, that's only for people I like.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Theres no gauge on what a magics "power" to blow up a castle is purely because it blowing the castle unlike physical force does not mean it has to have concentrated on a point first, like an AoE spell that does the same exact damage over an area.

That is by far the dumbest thing you have said yet.

And I'm not even going to tell you why. I'm just going to let you re read it and see if you can figure it out on your own.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I know it does not work that way hence why I am trying to make you realise how it should work, you should be using suitable evidence that actually backs your claims, rather than having to make up theories on the go to prop up your own evidence AND your argument ,otherwise its just going to collapse.

Not a theory.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then why are you posting? since thats all that actually counts, you will just be wasting time if you dont even expect to convince anyone. Even I despite the trolls I have had to argue with "attempt" to convince, although I admit I would not use blank scenes and attempt to lay off theories as facts to fill them in.

For fun. And because I am not opposed to believing in miracles, which is what would have to happen to change you or Quan's minds. After all, evidence clearly doesn't work. Look at poor Scenario. Dude WoT's harder than anyone I've ever seen, so you and Quan can just go "Lol, wut evdence?"

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I don't know how you can't know what I mean. 😐

And yet, you are doing what you have spent this day criticizing me for, assuming something without actually seeing it.

I don't care what size it actually is, lol. Feat less creature is feat less anyway.

Depends what you mean by powerful. Modern has no real benefits either, aside from being easier to access and use.

I'll admit Jaxx can punch through a castle wall when I see him punch through something of equivalent durability. Assuming he can do it without actually seeing it is you contradicting yourself yet again.

Just like old times.

Trebuchets don't blow up castles.

I recommend some logic puzzles so you can better discern the point of a given argument.

Now you're assuming Midna is stupid. Good job.

If Ganon can take an attack like that, he is durable. Now you're denying basic logic? What the ****, bro?

That's something for you and your therapist to talk about. And while I have been known to counsel people I like, well, that's only for people I like.

That is by far the dumbest thing you have said yet.

And I'm not even going to tell you why. I'm just going to let you re read it and see if you can figure it out on your own.

Not a theory.

For fun. And because I am not opposed to believing in miracles, which is what would have to happen to change you or Quan's minds. After all, evidence clearly doesn't work. Look at poor Scenario. Dude WoT's harder than anyone I've ever seen, so you and Quan can just go "Lol, wut evdence?"

You probably made a reply that made no sense.

But you do see it, just not all at once. This does not make any difference to what size it is, if you play a level in GoW and only see portions of giant creatures at a time, that does not mean they are as small as each specific piece.

lol no real benefits, right....

Anyone who has bombs, more advanced weapons etc.

I never said they did.

She may well be stupid.

basic logic? hell "bro" I have been trying to teach it to you, I cannot deny something I am trying to teach, you cannot prove he "took it" and you cannot prove it did any more than strike him with a spear until theres solid evidence it can cause an explosion, which if it did does not give Dorf much more of a feat.

No, the dumbest thing is trying to make you understand something, I feel like Ricky Gervais trying to teach Karl Pilkington the defintion of infinity.

😆 if only it wasnt.

I like how you big up the only member on your side that does anything against the opposition other than troll them. Members such as Me, Bloodrain and Scenario all post large posts using various forms of evidence and you sit there trolling and whining about how lackluster your arguments are, perhaps if you took a leaf out of Scenarios book you would at least grasp some form of debating style.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It does when we are the opposition, what do you have when the only people who agree are on your side of the argument? nothing....until youve convinced me or more importantly Quanchi (who is debating that MK win I assume) you have failed. Thats not impressive, human beings have survived structural damage and being buried under the rubble and their not immaterial, magic or floating disembodied heads. You have theories from your own bias conclusions, not much evidence tbh, also looking back you can see the same "grey" screen phase out thats before the scene change in the castle explosion at the end of the barrier scene as well, so it seems it is simply a screen fade out. So no light, rumble or explosion with the Midna strike.

You're not the opposition. The opposition is the Mortal Kombat side. You're more of a naysayer to anything Zelda related. I would be busy convincing quanchi if not for your distraction. I find it odd that you won't nitpick Raiden's supposed castle buster, seeing as they're the same thing. I didn't see Raiden destroy the castle; I just saw him attack and then the scene went outside and the castle exploded. No proof Raiden did it, but you'll accept that. Now, then, I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me several people who survived in a exploding castle with no injuries, when standing next to the explosion itself. Then the screen filling with light at the barrier and the castle is just one more thing they have in common.


Since when is growling doing nothing, I can growl while sitting on the toilet, dancing or typing this to you, I have no reason not to belive Ganon with all his power can attack. It does not make much noise or explode, or create smoke in the barrier scene either tbh, although I admit theres a slight shake.

"No reason not to" is horrible logic. You have no proof he didn't, so he automatically did? If he was going to do something, he'd have done it by then, and the growling is just to prove he's still in the room when it explodes. The castle is indeed a different material from the barrier, explaining the smoke.


The only simularity is she speared it and there was some light vibration (as opposed to castle shaking rumbling), other than that the barrier scene is completly different.

There was light, the screen shook, and an explosive force pushed the barrier's pieces outward after the initial hit. Same as the castle. Enough similarities to link them.


Its not light at all, its a screen phase out. I am talking about the actual lightning that starts at 2:30 in the castle vid.

Yes, and it's identical to the light that appears when Midna hits the barrier. The scene change doesn't really matter.


Stop all this "if you can provide evidence" rubbish because you have provided no evidence to suggest what has happened either, only what you "belive", just because a barrier fell away after being pierced over a duration makes no indication that this is the same, we see no light, and this is not a barrier of magic, its Ganon/physicla castle. The fact the explosion may not have happened immediatly according to you makes for the fact Ganon may have not even been there and may have teleported out before it went off.

You're just choosing to interpret the barrier in a way that makes it different as opposed to what actually happened. The barrier, if you actually watch the video, does not "fall away" at any point. It gets pierced, then an explosive force pushes then outward. In the same fashion as the castle is forced outward. I've shown enough evidence to prove Midna destroyed the castle, while all you've done is use this "can't prove he didn't, maybe he did this" nonsense that makes logic cry.


The weapon is simply her magic, or the magic of the fused shadows, same thing basically. It did not break when she hit it, the energy come from the blade and the barrier also shined with light all over, thats not an explosion that looks like a similiar reaction to ice when its molecules/partecles break apart during melting. Shes proven she can grab a possessed being and force Ganon out with her own power, not that she can touch his immaterial form. We can see hes immaterial, you can see right through him infact, hes nothing more than what looks like dark flames.

So? You're assuming the magic weapon being magic changes what happens when it hits something? If you'd watch the video, the spear pierces the barrier and an explosive force breaks it into pieces and pushes them in all directions. I'm sure you can provide a helpful visual representation of what ice molecules look like when heat is applied, otherwise you're not saying anything. Midna then pushing a possessing spirit out of a possessed being somehow means she can no longer touch his spirit according to you, which makes little sense. Whether or not Ganondorf is immaterial is immaterial to the discussion, since Midna has a magic weapon proven to break castles.


Because it did not explode as the force hit it, she left it there as the magic nullified the barrier. If she just hit it quickly one and it shatterd instantly in an audiable explosion you may have a point but this does not happen. So you accept that they unravel their magic, good, were getting somewhere.

No, because the explosion only occurred after the initial strike, when Midna caused it to be pushed outward, identically to the castle rumbling a bit before the explosion pushing it outward. I never said the shards did not disappear, simply that your suggestion that the explosion was an unraveling was silly. It just disappeared after the explosion.


It means your unconvcincing. Stressing your own version of truth and trying to stuff it down my throat is not going to make a difference. Your still throwing and jumbling conclusions together. All these "similarities", such as what? the same weapon being used....thats about it. When did I say I hated Zelda? I admit I dont like the look of it but what I really dont like is the baseless arguments based on fan made conclusions, especially when these conclusions are not even seen.

It means you're just as stubborn. I have presented my argument and all evidence for it repeatedly just for you to deny it every step of the way. You're taking your own brand of truth to the barrier and castle, but to all appears you've refused to give any evidence for it beyond your own belief. The similarities I've already shown you so many times, yet you continue to deny on no evident grounds. The weapon, the light, the rumble, the explosion, everything about the scenes except the smoke is near identical, but you don't seem to want to accept the evidence. You've made clear through your continuous antagonism and arguments that you dislike Zelda, compounded by the fact that refuse to play the games. My conclusion has been presented repeatedly and in video form, you refusing to accept it does not make it go away.


Because my whole argument is based on not what actually happened but more on why evidence that has to have theories and conclusions from the fans backing it (because little is actually shown on screen) is poor evidence and will not convince. Further, I am simply discussing this scene or lack therof not Zelda in general.

Your argument is based on "maybe," "what if," and "no reason not to," without any evidence to back up why you think that way. It annoys me that you deny the evidence on "fan bias" grounds when you won't put forward your own when asked. I have evidence, and you can't change that no matter how hard you try.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You probably made a reply that made no sense.

Because the flaw never is with you, right? Gotta love idiotic confidence.

Originally posted by Burning thought
But you do see it, just not all at once. This does not make any difference to what size it is, if you play a level in GoW and only see portions of giant creatures at a time, that does not mean they are as small as each specific piece.

In God of War, seeing a portion of a giant creature will not be shown while the rest of it remains hidden. If it were, I would make the same argument. Mostly because I've seen mostly humanoid shaped creatures, and that would mean I could at least guess how big a body might be on the size of an arm. I could do the same for tentacles, sir, but that would put the Elder God back in the 300 ft range.

Look at you, desperately trying to wiggle your way out of your own rules. Just like old times.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol no real benefits, right....

Outside of being quicker, yeah, no real advantages against a castle. Hand guns and rifles aren't gonna bust through that stone, bro. Not without some serious power behind it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Anyone who has bombs, more advanced weapons etc.

The biggest gun I've seen on that guy is an automatic rifle. That is not going to break through, or blow up, a castle. >_>

Originally posted by Burning thought
I never said they did.

Yeah, you did. Does saying Ganondorf's best feat can be performed by a trebuchet ring a bell? It should, because you said it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
She may well be stupid.

Don't go making assumptions without seeing it now. That's against your little rules.

Originally posted by Burning thought
basic logic? hell "bro" I have been trying to teach it to you, I cannot deny something I am trying to teach, you cannot prove he "took it" and you cannot prove it did any more than strike him with a spear until theres solid evidence it can cause an explosion, which if it did does not give Dorf much more of a feat.

There you go being stupid again. Bro, you gotta quit that.

Scene leads your thinking. That's all you get on this until you lrn2logic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, the dumbest thing is trying to make you understand something, I feel like Ricky Gervais trying to teach Karl Pilkington the defintion of infinity.

The **** is Rick Gervais? Or that other guy?

Don't bother responding if they're British. I won't care if that's the case.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 if only it wasnt.

What? You'll laugh if only it wasn't?

...you laughed. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
I like how you big up the only member on your side that does anything against the opposition other than troll them. Members such as Me, Bloodrain and Scenario all post large posts using various forms of evidence and you sit there trolling and whining about how lackluster your arguments are, perhaps if you took a leaf out of Scenarios book you would at least grasp some form of debating style.

...take a leaf out of his book? Scenario, why the **** are there leaves in your book? Get those damn things out of there. I'm not gonna play that crap.

Don't go lumping yourself in with the real debaters. Half the reason I hardly post any evidence is because, whenever I actually get involved in a thread, I usually deal with you and Quan. And I do not have the patience of Scenario. I will not provide you two with a courtesy you do not deserve.

Originally posted by The Scenario
You're not the opposition. The opposition is the Mortal Kombat side. You're more of a naysayer to anything Zelda related. I would be busy convincing quanchi if not for your distraction. I find it odd that you won't nitpick Raiden's supposed castle buster, seeing as they're the same thing. I didn't see Raiden destroy the castle; I just saw him attack and then the scene went outside and the castle exploded. No proof Raiden did it, but you'll accept that. Now, then, I'm sure you'll have no problem showing me several people who survived in a exploding castle with no injuries, when standing next to the explosion itself. Then the screen filling with light at the barrier and the castle is just one more thing they have in common.

"No reason not to" is horrible logic. You have no proof he didn't, so he automatically did? If he was going to do something, he'd have done it by then, and the growling is just to prove he's still in the room when it explodes. The castle is indeed a different material from the barrier, explaining the smoke.

There was light, the screen shook, and an explosive force pushed the barrier's pieces outward after the initial hit. Same as the castle. Enough similarities to link them.

Yes, and it's identical to the light that appears when Midna hits the barrier. The scene change doesn't really matter.

You're just choosing to interpret the barrier in a way that makes it different as opposed to what actually happened. The barrier, if you actually watch the video, does not "fall away" at any point. It gets pierced, then an explosive force pushes then outward. In the same fashion as the castle is forced outward. I've shown enough evidence to prove Midna destroyed the castle, while all you've done is use this "can't prove he didn't, maybe he did this" nonsense that makes logic cry.

So? You're assuming the magic weapon being magic changes what happens when it hits something? If you'd watch the video, the spear pierces the barrier and an explosive force breaks it into pieces and pushes them in all directions. I'm sure you can provide a helpful visual representation of what ice molecules look like when heat is applied, otherwise you're not saying anything. Midna then pushing a possessing spirit out of a possessed being somehow means she can no longer touch his spirit according to you, which makes little sense. Whether or not Ganondorf is immaterial is immaterial to the discussion, since Midna has a magic weapon proven to break castles.

No, because the explosion only occurred after the initial strike, when Midna caused it to be pushed outward, identically to the castle rumbling a bit before the explosion pushing it outward. I never said the shards did not disappear, simply that your suggestion that the explosion was an unraveling was silly. It just disappeared after the explosion.

It means you're just as stubborn. I have presented my argument and all evidence for it repeatedly just for you to deny it every step of the way. You're taking your own brand of truth to the barrier and castle, but to all appears you've refused to give any evidence for it beyond your own belief. The similarities I've already shown you so many times, yet you continue to deny on no evident grounds. The weapon, the light, the rumble, the explosion, everything about the scenes except the smoke is near identical, but you don't seem to want to accept the evidence. You've made clear through your continuous antagonism and arguments that you dislike Zelda, compounded by the fact that refuse to play the games. My conclusion has been presented repeatedly and in video form, you refusing to accept it does not make it go away.

Your argument is based on "maybe," "what if," and "no reason not to," without any evidence to back up why you think that way. It annoys me that you deny the evidence on "fan bias" grounds when you won't put forward your own when asked. I have evidence, and you can't change that no matter how hard you try.

I am here to regulate how fallacies are being tossed around and poor logic, it just so happens that most of it concerns Zelda, thats not my fault, i have done it to other verses before. Raidens was far more obvious, his was not an ambigious strike but you actually see him explode. You also have a voice over, indicating whats actually happening, if Midna began a long term charge and a voice over said she had to unleash her full power before we actually see it then I would not be here.

As much as I accept your knowledge on horrible logic, I did not say thats what actually happened, only that on the same evidence as you saying he did nothing, I am pointing out he could have just as been likely doing something, a growl is no indication of anything really. We dont hear any explosion, unless you have "scene sight" and have the power to watch the scene for longer than the game allows you dont know he was even there.

Show me the light, the rumble and the explosion when Midna actually strikes up until the point ti screen fades out please, you wont be able to because apprently Ganons oh so loud growl drowns it out.

😆 its nothing alike, we actually see beams of energy and sunlight on the barrier, all over the barrier here we dont see anything but a thrust and a screen fade out which looks more grey than light. We see the same thing before the scene change in the barier one. I like how you just ignored the evidence and what I said...

Again your self idolising view when you think your opinion=fact, I am watching the same scene and theres no explosion, theres a long drawn out ray of light that melts away the magic of the barrier, it all matches up to what I am saying and makes sense when concenring magic forces over physical. nonsense that makes logic cry is a long list of assumptions and conclusions that a station of bias has drawn together is apprently going to convince anyone, and that two completly different scenes equel the same outcome.

If you watched the video no force happens at all, the piecs fall away after a long time of magic power being transfered through the light. You missed the visual description and added a red herring in its place 🙄 , no she can touch Zelda and her fused shadows power cannot be resisted by Ganon at the point. You sort of added a random statement without anything concerning the thread here.

😆 your claiming there was actually unraveling/disapating magic but after the strike so you dont have to admit you were wrong about the scene, your so stubborn for prides sake. I hear no explosion, I only see shards falling and light radiating outwards from them like sunlight not a huge fireball ala an explosion.

Hardly, I have actually conceded to things before but I dont recall you conceding to anything, just argueing some nonsense further. I am watching and using the same evidence and denying piecies that are either irrelevent or dont show what you claim. You cant expect to convince someone just because you post a random video and use your beliefs on it to prop up your beliefs on another...theories from a bias position do not=fact. Your acting like you have "all" the evidence, what evidence do you think were discussing? or that I am using? 🙄 you refusing to accept your bias conclusions are not fact will not make me go away either, or the opposition.

NO!, you dont even grasp my argument, my argument is based on the fact your argument is"maybe" and"what if", the fact youve drawn some conclusion together changes nothing and my evidence is the same stuff your using. It annoys me when you constantly think I am trying to prove Ganon or the pair of them destroyed the castle and that you repeatadly act like your own opinion on a scene is all that matters.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice

In GoW2 you do not see the whole of Atlas underground, you do not see his legs for example or the lower pieces of his body iirc, did you assume he was hovering on his knee stumps?

Wiggle out of my own rules? my own rules are clear and do not cover what your claiming, look at you trying to troll just like old times because you have no debating style of your own.

Oh I dont know, an anti material rifle designed for taking out vehicles could smash a castle wall, I am certain of that or a JDM dropped by a plane.

That does not mean a treb can blow up a castle, your assuming somehow Ganon took the combined force of what hit the enitre castle, rather than simply what part of it hit him.

We may well be seeing it considering shes according to you fighting someone she has little chance against, someone immaterial she may not hit and with the intension of wiping out a building while shes inside it. If we take what Scenario said she may even intentially using power that beforehand knocked her out.....

Trolling agian ,lrn2debate please.

Ah I am used to you not understanding so theres no point explaining who they are, but Karl is certainly your spiritual role model if anything else.

Of course I would, its a good thing to get poor logic and nonsense we dont see out of the way, fan belief is boring and worthless in an argument and I would rather argue your really bad logic than none at all.

I do the same if not more than any of them, and if I have to put up with your nonsense trolling with is worse than Quan who may even be your debating better considering you dont really debate anyway you can show some courtesy and debate rather than troll. I think its amusing how you think you deserve respect you do not show others.

Originally posted by Burning thought
In GoW2 you do not see the whole of Atlas underground, you do not see his legs for example or the lower pieces of his body iirc, did you assume he was hovering on his knee stumps?

I didn't even play that game.

But no, I wouldn't.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Wiggle out of my own rules? my own rules are clear and do not cover what your claiming, look at you trying to troll just like old times because you have no debating style of your own.

Of course they're clear, that's why you always find yourself having to wiggle out of them.

My style is turning you against yourself. Thus far I've proven to do fairly well at it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Oh I dont know, an anti material rifle designed for taking out vehicles could smash a castle wall, I am certain of that or a JDM dropped by a plane.

Wait, since when have we allowed full access to the gear of the universes? As far as I know, Jaxx is not a walking armory.

I hope we do that, you'll get some serious nonsense tossed at MK from the Zeldaverse.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That does not mean a treb can blow up a castle, your assuming somehow Ganon took the combined force of what hit the enitre castle, rather than simply what part of it hit him.

Bro, look at the words you used.

"I know what trebs do, hence why it's my example. But try doing that to Kratos, Kain or Dante and you will not get much of an effect but apparently it's dorf's best feat in a roundabout kind of way."

Originally posted by Burning thought
We may well be seeing it considering shes according to you fighting someone she has little chance against, someone immaterial she may not hit and with the intension of wiping out a building while shes inside it. If we take what Scenario said she may even intentially using power that beforehand knocked her out.....

😆 😆 😆

You'll really stop at nothing to downplay the Zelda games as hard as you can, won't you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Trolling agian ,lrn2debate please.

Working with what you give me again. Give some to get some.

I don't return/accept sexual favors though. So get your mind out of the gutter. Pervert.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ah I am used to you not understanding so theres no point explaining who they are, but Karl is certainly your spiritual role model if anything else.

I don't know who the **** those people are. 😐

Originally posted by Burning thought
Of course I would, its a good thing to get poor logic and nonsense we dont see out of the way, fan belief is boring and worthless in an argument and I would rather argue your really bad logic than none at all.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I do the same if not more than any of them, and if I have to put up with your nonsense trolling with is worse than Quan who may even be your debating better considering you dont really debate anyway you can show some courtesy and debate rather than troll. I think its amusing how you think you deserve respect you do not show others.

😐

😂

ermm

😱

I never said I deserve respect. Shit dude, I almost go out of my way to allow people to disrespect me around here. Lmao.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I didn't even play that game.

But no, I wouldn't.

Of course they're clear, that's why you always find yourself having to wiggle out of them.

My style is turning you against yourself. Thus far I've proven to do fairly well at it.

Wait, since when have we allowed full access to the gear of the universes? As far as I know, Jaxx is not a walking armory.

I hope we do that, you'll get some serious nonsense tossed at MK from the Zeldaverse.

Bro, look at the words you used.

"I know what trebs do, hence why it's my example. But try doing that to Kratos, Kain or Dante and you will not get much of an effect but apparently it's dorf's best feat in a roundabout kind of way."

😆 😆 😆

You'll really stop at nothing to downplay the Zelda games as hard as you can, won't you?

Working with what you give me again. Give some to get some.

I don't return/accept sexual favors though. So get your mind out of the gutter. Pervert.

I don't know who the **** those people are. 😐

😐

😂

ermm

😱

I never said I deserve respect. Shit dude, I almost go out of my way to allow people to disrespect me around here. Lmao.

Thats what you seem to belive about EG.

Youve not proven anything other than being a consistent troll, you dont even understand the rules in the first place.

You miss the point, which is that modern weapons can decimate a castle wall or a whole castle quite easily. I think I am right in saying the MK cast have access to bombs, dont they have robots that launch bombs?

Edit: Jax also has machine guns, missles and plasma weaponry apparently.

What are you trying to prove?

No I stop at nothing to make the few trolls and the one debater who argue for LoZ realise that people are not convinced by simple belief, e.g. Castle "feat", Lightning speed link etc.

I think you just end up getting disrespected due to your behaviour, you act like a troll and pronounce it yet somehow you think others should dictate their behaviour based on what you want. You also have a terrible logic engine considering you seem to think your "disrespectful" demeanor does not reduce your credability in your bias conclusions.

Its no wonder nobody has accepted your views.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats what you seem to belive about EG.

No, I believe that the Elder God travels from place to place, not that he is large enough to be in all those places simultaneously.

This is a point where you contradict yourself by assuming that he is continent size despite no evidence for such an idea. Which is exactly what you're claiming we're doing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Youve not proven anything other than being a consistent troll, you dont even understand the rules in the first place.

I understand you more than you think.

I'm like, all up in your head and shit, man. I know what you're thinking, even before you think it.

I've seen some weird shit, man.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You miss the point, which is that modern weapons can decimate a castle wall or a whole castle quite easily. I think I am right in saying the MK cast have access to bombs, dont they have robots that launch bombs?

Some of them, I got that. But none of them actually blow up the castle. They can just knock down some walls or something.

I don't ****ing know. lol.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Edit: Jax also has machine guns, missles and plasma weaponry apparently.

Cool?

Originally posted by Burning thought
What are you trying to prove?

Depends on what this is replying to.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No I stop at nothing to make the few trolls and the one debater who argue for LoZ realise that people are not convinced by simple belief, e.g. Castle "feat", Lightning speed link etc.

So...when do you start doing that?

Originally posted by Burning thought
I think you just end up getting disrespected due to your behaviour, you act like a troll and pronounce it yet somehow you think others should dictate their behaviour based on what you want. You also have a terrible logic engine considering you seem to think your "disrespectful" demeanor does not reduce your credability in your bias conclusions.

You're not considering psychology as a career field, are you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its no wonder nobody has accepted your views.

So, if you'll notice the post that mine here is responding to, it's degraded into telling me what I think, why I do the things I do, and how everybody else views me. Excellent debating, sir.

And yet, you retain such self righteousness.