Originally posted by Galan007
"Obi-Wan leapt and spun, slashing side to side, chopping and thrusting, but all of Dooku's movements seemed far more efficient[...]His words spurred Obi-Wan forward with another series of slashes and chops, but Dooku's red blade angled left and then right, then up just enough to send Obi-Wan's descending blade slipping off to the side[...]
Obi-Wan steadied himself and shifted his lightsaber from hand to hand, getting a better grip on it. Then he exploded into motion, coming on again fiercely, his blue lightsaber flashing all about. He kept a better measure of his cuts this time, though, reversing his angle often, turning a wide slash into a sudden thrust[...]" - Attack of the Clones
.Slashes and chops are not part of Form III combat.
Disarm him in sabers only? No, he did not.
This is a narrow view of SW fighting though. Because Obi-Wan isn't blatantly tanking doesn't exclude his proficiency with Soresu.
Luminara is, in the series, the only other high level user of Soresu noted (Besides Jedi Masters who clearly have had Soresu training, but specialize in different styles). Notice that she uses offensive "chops and slashes" infrequently, yet still manages a supple defense, keeping the eye of the storm approach when Ventress attacks back.
Categorizing Soresu has not having slashes or chops is narrowminded. All attacks are in line with Soresu provided that the goal is the same - to minimize exposure to counter attack and remain as the eye of the storm in mentality. I could agree that Obi-Wan's mindset in the above paragraph seems aggressive, but I'd chalk that up to an obvious issue with actual Forms implementation in lots of canon materials. Specifically, none of the movie fights are depicted specifically to reflect the seven forms (It's more coincedental. However, Fightsaber was based on AotC, but GL did not have a hand in, or adhere to Fightsaber for his works. And RotS stomps all over the description of Juyo/Vaapad, clearly), and the AotC book was written before both the movie and the forms themselves came into being, so naturally it's not a consideration. So in this instance, I'd rather trust the movie and speculate based on that.
The main reason for that being, I find it difficult to believe that Salvatore, someone who's notorious for his fighting descriptions, would be aware of Soresu and deliberately omit it or fail to comment on it had he been aware of it. It's entirely against his writing style. So the idea appears to be that the excerpt does not address the Forms and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Actual Movie Presentation of Above Fight
[list]
[*]Dash forward, overhead chop
[*]Chop comes around into an angled thrust
[*]Backspin into a side-slash
[*]Series of lower defensive swipes
[*]Counter swipe to lower legs which Dooku clears
[*]Spin out of contact area and fall into defensive posture
[*]Spinning defensive block, blade close to body
[*]Obi-Wan fails his Dun Molch roll, angrily breaks out of saber lock
[*]Backspins into shoulder-level slash
[*]Blades lock, presses Dooku's to the floor
[*]Breaks contact, spins out of contact area, assumes defensive posture
[*]Mid-level slash, timed to block Dooku's own
[*]Vertical block
[*]Blade lock; disengage blade to come around for a spinning counter
[*]Blade tug-o-war
[*]Get tooled by superior bladework, end fight[/list]
You can see that arguably only the opening attacks from Kenobi seem un-Soresu-esque, while the rest of it seems to fall in line with his style. Even though he does offer attacks, he keeps his blade close to his body, minimizes exposure, disengages when appropriate, and works defenses whenever possible. Typecasting fighting styles as lacking something so basic as chops and slashes is missing the point.
Originally posted by Stealth MooseYou realize that you're typecasting, right? You make it sound as though Soresu is the only form that offers any type of defense, thus the defensive maneuvers Kenobi displayed vs. Dooku in AotC must have been Soresu blocks, as opposed to Ataru blocks... You really think Yoda reverted from Ataru to Soresu any time he blocked Dooku's strikes?
Typecasting fighting styles as lacking something so basic as chops and slashes is missing the point.
Additionally, there is evidence to back up my stance regarding Soresu being an almost purely defensive form...
"Forming a strong defensive cocoon makes it difficult for an enemy to land more than a glancing blow, but it means that a form III master is unable to mount a counterattack. Yet the minimalist defense preserves the Jedi's energy reserves while simultaneously tiring an opponent, and an exhausted opponent will eventually slip up, allowing a form III master to score a victory."
"Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target areas when compared with the relatively open style of some other forms. Over many centuries form III has evolved into a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. True masters of form III have long been considered invincible."
I'm not saying there are absolutely no slashes or chops associated with form III - however, it's primary function is undoubtedly defense. That said, it seems pretty obvious to me that Kenobi was trying to attack Dooku head-on during pretty much the entirety of their first battle in the film (the polar opposite of form III philosophy) + the novelizations description that Kenobi was almost constantly on the offensive (which correlates with the film's depiction, imo) + Dooku's mental note in the RotS novelization that Kenobi had become a master of Soresu since their battle on Geonosis. To me, that equates to Kenobi not using form III at all... Or at least was using Ataru much, much more during AotC.