N.
I know, but I needed to write it in this one beause the fvcking reply option doesn't put the whole post in the reply for some arbitrary bullshit reason.Also sorry for all the spelling mistakes. It's like 6 in the morning over here.
Take a deep breath, my child. KMC's gay functions will endure your hatred, you must learn to cope.
The chat's not even something to get irritated about, so no worries. stoned
Originally posted by Q99Tiin's not even noted as one of the best at the time, let alone history. And I find the claim of Kolar being one of the best in history highly questionable, for that matter ^^; The only one of those three who I think lives up to the hype is Fisto, and in-universe he was just said to be one of the best of the current order, not in all it's history.
Its in ROTS novel that they were all amongst the best swordsmen in the history of the order.
Originally posted by Q99
It's certainly not a coincidence that the best duelists like Windu and Kenobi are in the council, but it's likely more on the side of "The best at any area of Jedi skill can get in," rather than saber skill specifically being a requirement of being in the council.
Well I never said it was specifically decided on Saber skill. Could be different skills, but they seem to have the ones with the strongest and most powerful connections to the force, which usually translates to pretty damn good fighters.
Originally posted by Q99
Personally I'd say the best thing Qui-gon has to show is he taught Obi-Wan.
Theres lots of things. Theres quotes calling him one of the best swordsmen of the order. Quotes saying he used to draw with Mace in saber sparring.
Then theres the fact the council sent him to fight the first Sith Lord emerging in centuries. Backed up by his padawan, but still He must have been good for them to have confidence sending him for that mission.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Its in ROTS novel that they were all amongst the best swordsmen in the history of the order.
Yea, their feats really don't back that up. There's a lot of Jedi from other eras I'd take over Fisto, let alone Agen and Tiin, and even quite a few swordsjedi from the CW era above Agen and Tiin.
Originally posted by Q99
Yea, their feats really don't back that up. There's a lot of Jedi from other eras I'd take over Fisto, let alone Agen and Tiin, and even quite a few swordsjedi from the CW era above Agen and Tiin.
Well Kolar did completely own Quinlan Vos, but then I suppose you'll ask for Vos's feats. Then I'll tell you Vos killed Sora Bulq, and you'll ask for Sora's feats and so on and so forth.
I think narrations should be used as evidence too. Not just feats. End of the day those characters who we have seen more of tend to have more feats.
Maul has only one movie (in which he did not even appear that much) a novel and a couple of comics in which he appears.
Whilst Obi-Wan is in 4 movies (corporeal form) numerous episodes of CW's and numerous more EU works (novels and comics).
So he'll obviously have more feats, but that doesn't automatically mean he wins.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
In other news, I won this thread.
Lol I must have missed that part. Im still waiting for you to back up your claim that Kenobi has "Effortlessly" destroyed Ventress many times.
Spoiler:
Which I know you can't do but it will be fun to watch you try!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well Kolar did completely own Quinlan Vos, but then I suppose you'll ask for Vos's feats. Then I'll tell you Vos killed Sora Bulq, and you'll ask for Sora's feats and so on and so forth.
I'll point out that Dooku felt Vos was weak with a saber.
And I know Bulq, which is Vos's best feat, and he's good, no doubt, but I wouldn't rate him as a best-in-history type either.
I think narrations should be used as evidence too. Not just feats. End of the day those characters who we have seen more of tend to have more feats.
But at the same time, *so many* Jedi of many era have been called "among the best ever". There is literally a dozen CW era Jedi who I'd put above Agen, Vos, Tiin, etc. in a duel.
And Tiin? When you're fifth out of fifth *in the room*, and Mace's team was chosen on the basis of "the best on-planet who happened to be available, not counting Anakin or Shaak Ti," then you aren't close to being in the contention for best in history.
Maul has only one movie (in which he did not even appear that much) a novel and a couple of comics in which he appears.Whilst Obi-Wan is in 4 movies (corporeal form) numerous episodes of CW's and numerous more EU works (novels and comics).
So he'll obviously have more feats, but that doesn't automatically mean he wins.
Even if someone has only a few feats, high quality ones can make up for it, and Maul's feats simply aren't all that high.
Originally posted by Q99
I'll point out that Dooku felt Vos was weak with a saber.
If I remember correctly it was more a reference to how poorly the fencing techniques of the Jedi (as a whole) have gone down.
Originally posted by Q99
And I know Bulq, which is Vos's best feat, and he's good, no doubt, but I wouldn't rate him as a best-in-history type either.
Lol I doubt your ratings are canon. Forget the fact that Bulq gave Mace a run for his money, hes just supposed to be awsome inside out (when it comes to saber fighting).
Originally posted by Q99
But at the same time, *so many* Jedi of many era have been called "among the best ever".
Really? Like who?
Originally posted by Q99
There is literally a dozen CW era Jedi who I'd put above Agen, Vos, Tiin, etc. in a duel.
Again Canon quotes > Your ratings.
Originally posted by Q99
Even if someone has only a few feats, high quality ones can make up for it, and Maul's feats simply aren't all that high.
Thats your opinion. Because you personally consider Qui-Gon and Anoon as nobody's to beat.
Although you forget Maul almost took Sidious in a fit of rage (in sabers).. You can make whatever excuses you want for that, but the fact is the vast majority of Jedi could not do that in any circumstance at all.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Really? Like who?
Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Shaak-Ti, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Dooku. Sharad Hett was considered 'legendary,' and so on.
And there's more of other eras. Satele Shan, Luke, Revan, and all the various massively famous Jedi out there, though the praise doesn't get thrown around to quite as many in the other eras, even though we do have demonstrated that in general the eras aren't that far apart in skill.
Tiin's not even primarily known as a duelist, he's famous as a *pilot*, yet by that quote we're supposed to put him above, say, Raskta Lsu who can match blades with Bane on good terms?
Again Canon quotes > Your ratings.
When feats contradict quite, though, feats win. There are many Jedi who, going by their demonstrated skills, would be able to put up more of a fight against Sidious than Agen and Tiin did.
Quite frankly, it's a rare CW master who doesn't get talked up.
Thats your opinion. Because you personally consider Qui-Gon and Anoon as nobody's to beat.
I wouldn't say nobody's, especially Qui-gon, and Anoon's still impressive in giving Maul a fight, but they don't have the impressive resume of some of the people who were more active in the war.
Although you forget Maul almost took Sidious in a fit of rage (in sabers).. You can make whatever excuses you want for that, but the fact is the vast majority of Jedi could not do that in any circumstance at all.
As was pointed out by someone else, Sidious in that fight did demonstrate he could not only get past Maul's guard but was on an entirely different level.
So it still doesn't put him in the top tiers, though it does show him to have very solid skills.
Originally posted by Q99I can't imagine Maul NOT being in the same tier as Fisto and Ventress (perhaps slightly higher). So while I agree that Kenobi would prevail, he would only do so after a lengthly and very hard fought duel.
Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Shaak-Ti, Kit Fisto, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Dooku. Sharad Hett was considered 'legendary,' and so on.And there's more of other eras. Satele Shan, Luke, Revan, and all the various massively famous Jedi out there, though the praise doesn't get thrown around to quite as many in the other eras, even though we do have demonstrated that in general the eras aren't that far apart in skill.
Tiin's not even primarily known as a duelist, he's famous as a *pilot*, yet by that quote we're supposed to put him above, say, Raskta Lsu who can match blades with Bane on good terms?
When feats contradict quite, though, feats win. There are many Jedi who, going by their demonstrated skills, would be able to put up more of a fight against Sidious than Agen and Tiin did.
Quite frankly, it's a rare CW master who doesn't get talked up.
I wouldn't say nobody's, especially Qui-gon, and Anoon's still impressive in giving Maul a fight, but they don't have the impressive resume of some of the people who were more active in the war.
As was pointed out by someone else, Sidious in that fight did demonstrate he could not only get past Maul's guard but was on an entirely different level.
So it still doesn't put him in the top tiers, though it does show him to have very solid skills.