The Avengers vs. The Dark Knight Rises (opening nite & wknd)

I'm really looking forward to Avengers. I couldn't care less about The Dark Knight Rises. A lot of people love Batman so that will most likely do better.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
You're really not comparing "The Crow" to "The Dark Knight", are you? Really?

The Crow did get a boost from Lee's death. But not as big a boost. It just flat wasn't a great movie. It was/is a cult classic, nothing more. Dark Knight was actually a good movie. It did get a huge amount of additional press from Ledger's death. I remember it clearly. It still would have sold a ton without it. But I remember all the freaks dressed up like Joker while waiting in line for the movie...only time I've ever seen that.

Just saying.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It's not going to be Titanic but it stands a far better chance than most film's in my opinion. Hell, if they threw Wolverine and Spiderman in then I'll bet you it could surpass Titanic.

You see I actually think that would make it worse. The more random heroes you put in one movie the less chance of it working. I actuallu think they've done a decent enough job from the individual movies in making it believable that these guys are in the same world(and in the Avengers cartoon for that matter). But the more you add, the less believable its gna get.

You see its not like the X-Men where they're all mutants so you can have however many superpowered people as you want. And its got a great story behind it for why they're together.

But even in X-Men when you get too many of them, the story starts suffering.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
But as it stands though, Iron Man going to be in this and that alone will bring big numbers. You're looking at Downey, Johanson, and Jackson who're all big stars. Hensworth and Evans is another reason for the female demographic to go see it. If Captain America does Thor number, the Avengers have good chance of beating TDKR.

First of all I personally dnt see Captain America being a big hit. You can hold me to that later.

Secondly your making a HUGE mistake thinking an all star cast is gna sell the movie. No it will NOT! It will just help the marketing a little.

Ghost Rider had Nicholas Cage and Eva Mendes. Didn't really help. Incedible Hulk had Edward Norton and Liv Tyler. Again where did that get the movie?!

It will HAVE to be a damn good movie to make as much as you guys are expecting. Dnt expect the Stars and Characters to do that alone.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Ok, you're completely right. The news and all the other forms of media rampantly discussing his death and how it may have been related to the film's dark setting/joker's mood had NOTHING to do with it. Obviously you are right and I'm just not remembering things correctly.
Crow was a good movie, nothing more. Honestly, this is completely a matter of opinion. But if we're going off ratings, the critics agree that it's not as good as you are trying to make it sound.
Yes, it was big news. But Brandon Lee was not an A list actor at the time. Ledger was. In fact Ledger was on the verge of becoming a top 5 actor probably. Dark Knight would have no doubt propelled him to the top. There is a huge difference between the two, and the amount of press they got. I was there for both.

If I remember correctly the hype was more to do with how good Heath's acting was in that movie, something we had a taste of in the trailers, but the movie itself surpassed all our expectations.

And A-List actor?? Dude I didnt even know Heath by name until TDK. There was hype that his performance in this would defo have put him in the A-List category though, and guess what? It would have! The film was Brill! Heath's acting Fantastic!

And Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a movie to make a Billion dollars? Lol Ok you keep believing a movie which kids cant even watch, made more than any Spiderman movie, any Star Wars movie, All Harry Potter movies and 2 Lord of the Rings movies just because the poor guy died! Lol..

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If I remember correctly the hype was more to do with how good Heath's acting was in that movie, something we had a taste of in the trailers, but the movie itself surpassed all our expectations.

And A-List actor?? Dude I didnt even know Heath by name until TDK. There was hype that his performance in this would defo have put him in the A-List category though, and guess what? It would have! The film was Brill! Heath's acting Fantastic!

And Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a movie to make a Billion dollars? Lol Ok you keep believing a movie which kids cant even watch, made more than any Spiderman movie, any Star Wars movie, All Harry Potter movies and 2 Lord of the Rings movies just because the poor guy died! Lol..

Ghost Rider had Nicholas Cage and Eva Mendes. Didn't really help. Incedible Hulk had Edward Norton and Liv Tyler. Again where did that get the movie?!

It will HAVE to be a damn good movie to make as much as you guys are expecting. Dnt expect the Stars and Characters to do that alone. [/B][/QUOTE]

You see that's where the avengers is going to be different. I think it's partially b/c of the advertising and the way marvel studios have done it so far is genius. They first give you the individual movies with each character standing on its own. Then putting them together, i mean even non comic book fans would want to see something like this where if marvel studios advertised right, would be curious as to how iron man is now standing next to thor or what is hulk doing fighting chris from the captain america movie. I still think its going to be huge.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You see I actually think that would make it worse. The more random heroes you put in one movie the less chance of it working. I actuallu think they've done a decent enough job from the individual movies in making it believable that these guys are in the same world(and in the Avengers cartoon for that matter). But the more you add, the less believable its gna get.

They're a group of people with powers. It's a super hero team. How is that not believable? You might as well argue that the LOTR isn't believable because of the orges, elfs, sorcerrors, and living forest exist in the same world. If the film is weak, it's because of having to handle the on time screen of so many heroes and not because it's hard for viewers to believe they co-exist in the same universe.

You see its not like the X-Men where they're all mutants so you can have however many superpowered people as you want. And its got a great story behind it for why they're together.

But even in X-Men when you get too many of them, the story starts suffering.

You think people are going to be like "uh shit they all have different backgrounds from which they got they're powers. Unbelievable, too farfetch, I won't go see this movie. But hey, let's go see that Star Wars movie with all the different races of aliens, androids, people with abilities to tape into this mystical force that allows that them precognition, shoot lightning out there hands, telekenesis, and all the other crap."

First of all I personally dnt see Captain America being a big hit. You can hold me to that later.

I'll hold you to that.

Secondly your making a HUGE mistake thinking an all star cast is gna sell the movie. No it will NOT! It will just help the marketing a little.

Ghost Rider had Nicholas Cage and Eva Mendes. Didn't really help. Incedible Hulk had Edward Norton and Liv Tyler. Again where did that get the movie?!

LMAO, Cage and Mendez? Cage is a has been and never had the star power of Jackson or even Johanson. You think those two mean much to box office numbers? Norton and Tyler is even less popular. Ghost Rider isn't Captain America in the least. The character is even less well known. Iron Man is less well known than Captain America who's actually had a movie before this along with more cultural references then Iron Man before his film came out. Downey and IM's special effects is what brought in the numbers. IM had little name recognition to the public before hand. But you show kids clips of the movie with that armor and you tell the adult crowd that Downey is back to being an actor and starring as a superhero/cocky billionaire and people bought that up.

It will HAVE to be a damn good mov
ie to make as much as you guys are expecting. Dnt expect the Stars and Characters to do that alone.

It has enough star power, character interest, and special effects to beat out TDKR. But yeah, it needs a good story to keep it going.

Originally posted by Mindset
No superhero movie is going to have more hype than tdkr.

Really all that matters.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
They're a group of people with powers. It's a super hero team. How is that not believable? You might as well argue that the LOTR isn't believable because of the orges, elfs, sorcerrors, and living forest exist in the same world. If the film is weak, it's because of having to handle the on time screen of so many heroes and not because it's hard for viewers to believe they co-exist in the same universe.

You think people are going to be like "uh shit they all have different backgrounds from which they got they're powers. Unbelievable, too farfetch, I won't go see this movie. But hey, let's go see that Star Wars movie with all the different races of aliens, androids, people with abilities to tape into this mystical force that allows that them precognition, shoot lightning out there hands, telekenesis, and all the other crap."

I'll hold you to that.

LMAO, Cage and Mendez? Cage is a has been and never had the star power of Jackson or even Johanson. You think those two mean much to box office numbers? Norton and Tyler is even less popular. Ghost Rider isn't Captain America in the least. The character is even less well known. Iron Man is less well known than Captain America who's actually had a movie before this along with more cultural references then Iron Man before his film came out. Downey and IM's special effects is what brought in the numbers. IM had little name recognition to the public before hand. But you show kids clips of the movie with that armor and you tell the adult crowd that Downey is back to being an actor and starring as a superhero/cocky billionaire and people bought that up.

It has enough star power, character interest, and special effects to beat out TDKR. But yeah, it needs a good story to keep it going.

I say Avengers mainly for the scale of epicness. Its true about what was mentioned about TDK. Ledgers death raised much hype about the movie and his role before it was even out.

Avengers are going to have the WOW factor in Thor, Hulk and Ironman being on film together. That alone is going to give many ppl goosebumps. Also, TDKR doesnt have that villain that draws the crowd such as a Joker. The only thing the Batman movie has going for it, is that "its the Batman after TDK".

Not saying that both wont be good. Its just that Avengers is going to be super epic based off the roster alone.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LMAO, Cage and Mendez? Cage is a has been and never had the star power of Jackson or even Johanson. You think those two mean much to box office numbers? Norton and Tyler is even less popular. Ghost Rider isn't Captain America in the least. The character is even less well known. Iron Man is less well known than Captain America who's actually had a movie before this along with more cultural references then Iron Man before his film came out. Downey and IM's special effects is what brought in the numbers. IM had little name recognition to the public before hand. But you show kids clips of the movie with that armor and you tell the adult crowd that Downey is back to being an actor and starring as a superhero/cocky billionaire and people bought that up.

Im going to have to disagree with that. Ed Norton more than anyone else mentioned was a huge pickup for them. He has many classic movies and probably more star power than anyone mentioned. Liv is also highly recognized moreso id say compared to Eva or Downy Jr.

Ironman less well known that Cap? Yes, Cap may have had the movie's first, but Iron man has probably been more consistent which is possibly why his (blockbuster)movie came out first. Cap has been slowly pushed moreso to the forefront since Civil War, but before that, its been IM as part of Marvels big 4 (along with Wolvie, Hulk, Spidey) for the last 16 years.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
They're a group of people with powers. It's a super hero team. How is that not believable? You might as well argue that the LOTR isn't believable because of the orges, elfs, sorcerrors, and living forest exist in the same world. If the film is weak, it's because of having to handle the on time screen of so many heroes and not because it's hard for viewers to believe they co-exist in the same universe.
You think people are going to be like "uh shit they all have different backgrounds from which they got they're powers. Unbelievable, too farfetch, I won't go see this movie. But hey, let's go see that Star Wars movie with all the different races of aliens, androids, people with abilities to tape into this mystical force that allows that them precognition, shoot lightning out there hands, telekenesis, and all the other crap."

Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are set in far off fantasy worlds. The normal rules are all out the window when that happens.

And yes I do think "having different backgrounds" like you put it will effect the way people see it. If you dnt understand its the background of a character that makes a good film, then you dnt understand what a good film is.

You cant just put random superheros together and expect it to work.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
I'll hold you to that.

You can. The scene when he comes in shooting looks so stupid. Dnt expect a massive hit. Theres no real hype or eagerness for a Captain America movie.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LMAO, Cage and Mendez? Cage is a has been and never had the star power of Jackson or even Johanson. You think those two mean much to box office numbers? Norton and Tyler is even less popular. Ghost Rider isn't Captain America in the least. The character is even less well known. Iron Man is less well known than Captain America who's actually had a movie before this along with more cultural references then Iron Man before his film came out. Downey and IM's special effects is what brought in the numbers. IM had little name recognition to the public before hand. But you show kids clips of the movie with that armor and you tell the adult crowd that Downey is back to being an actor and starring as a superhero/cocky billionaire and people bought that up.

Are you kidding me? Cage, Norton and Tyler are HUGE stars, much bigger than anyone in The Avengers movie.

Stars just help with the advertising, they dnt sell the movie itself.

Look how many stars were in Oceans 12 and Oceans 13. By your theory they should have been the biggest movies of all time.

But I agree with you that Iron Man made it big due to Downey. But not because he's some big A-Lister star. It was because of his ACTING in the movie. And the Dircetor did a really good job, and it had a damn good story and character build up. Thats what makes a good movie, and helps make a box office success.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
It has enough star power, character interest, and special effects to beat out TDKR. But yeah, it needs a good story to keep it going.

Theres no way its gna beat TDKR unless by some shock TDKR turns out to be awful.

Seriously your expectations are too high for Avengers. Star Power and special effects aint gna do it. Like Downey himself said this is a seriously ambitious project. Why's he saying that? Because its actually a big risk, which could easily go either way. Flop or Hit. But certainly not a guaranteed Hit.

Cage in the 90's was pretty big. Just as big as Jackson, if not more so with his Oscar win. He may be washed up (he takes bad rolls, because of money problems), but he's a good actor when he wants to be.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Cage in the 90's was pretty big. Just as big as Jackson, if not more so with his Oscar win. He may be washed up (he takes bad rolls, because of money problems), but he's a good actor when he wants to be.

Yep, take a look at Kick-Ass.

I gotta say I'm interested the DKR simply because of Bane. He is one of my favorite Batman villains and it will be nice to see him done right.

But I'm more interested to see how the Avengers do. I think they did the coolest thing ever by giving all the main title characters a separate movie for character development. It removes the whole problem most big cast movies have with not giving enough screen time for every character to flesh out. This way you already know what you need to know about each character.

Plus with almost all the development angles out of the way you should be able to focus more the story and character interactions instead of bloated screen time.

Its hard for me to say which will do better. With the right marketing Avengers could get the bigger opening based on concept. Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, plus the personal actors fanbases. It could prove to bring in a good sized demographic.

On fanbase though Batman will still reign supreme because its Batman, but Bane isn't a mainstream big name Villain so that could hurt the movie appeal. The Joker was a no brainer you had to go see him especially after seeing the tailors.

If I had to go on gut opinion I actually think Avengers will do better. It could be marketed as something extremely fresh which always helps.

I'm really curious as to why people are thinking Avengers is going to make more money. TDKR is flying off the success of TDk and Inception both of which totally outsold the Ironmans and Thor. I mean TDKR made over 1000 million... The Iron Mans made around 600 each.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm really curious as to why people are thinking Avengers is going to make more money. TDKR is flying off the success of TDk and Inception both of which totally outsold the Ironmans and Thor. I mean TDKR made over 1000 million... The Iron Mans made around 600 each.

I have no idea. Marvel fans getting over excited about Avengers I guess.

Originally posted by ares834
I'm really curious as to why people are thinking Avengers is going to make more money. TDKR is flying off the success of TDk and Inception both of which totally outsold the Ironmans and Thor. I mean TDKR made over 1000 million... The Iron Mans made around 600 each.

The Avengers is going to be drawing from different markets even if some of them overlap, people who wouldn't go see Thor but will go see Iron Man will still go to see Avengers.

Of course the DKR could beat Avengers but my personal feeling is that the Avengers has the better chance. It will seem fresher, and bigger imo.

Originally posted by Newjak Riding off the success of a previous film isn't always a guaranteed thing. Plus the villain they chose just won't be as big a drawl as the Joker. Of course it is still Batman.

It's not only going to ride off the sucess of TDK but also Inception. Both of which outsold the Iron Mans. Considering the rave reviews and popularity that TDK garnered I honestly see no hope for the Avengers unless TDKR is a massive flop.

Furthermore Nolan is the director right now.

The Avengers is going to be drawing from different markets even if some of them overlap, people who wouldn't go see Thor but will go see Iron Man will still go to see Avengers.

The overlap for these two films is likely enormous. I would say that almost 90% of the people who saw Thor would have seen Iron Man (yes this is pure speculation but I don't know anyone who saw Thor that didn't see IM in theaters.)

Of course the DKR could beat Avengers but my personal feeling is that the Avengers has the better chance. It will seem fresher, and bigger imo.

I'm excited for Acengers as well. However, I know far more people that are excited for TDKR than Avengers. TDKR appeals to a very wide audiance of many ages. The Iron Man/Thor films seem to mostly appeal to the teenagers and comic fans. I have no doubt that both will make a massive profit and do extremley well... But TDK is currently the 7th highest selling movie ever (not adjusted for inlflation) while IM 2 is all the way back in 54th.

Originally posted by ares834
It's not only going to ride off the sucess of TDK but also Inception. Both of which outsold the Iron Mans. Considering the rave reviews and popularity that TDK garnered I honestly see no hope for the Avengers unless TDKR is a massive flop.

Furthermore Nolan is the director right now.

The overlap for these two films is likely enormous. I would say that almost 90% of the people who saw Thor would have seen Iron Man (yes this is pure speculation but I don't know anyone who saw Thor that didn't see IM in theaters.)

I'm excited for Acengers as well. However, I know far more people that are excited for TDKR than Avengers. TDKR appeals to a very wide audiance of many ages. The Iron Man/Thor films seem to mostly appeal to the teenagers and comic fans. I have no doubt that both will make a massive profit and do extremley well... But TDK is currently the 7th highest selling movie ever (not adjusted for inlflation) while IM 2 is all the way back in 54th.

Also I'm not just talking about the movie character's themselves. I'm talking about fans of Robert Downing Jr will go see Avengers, so will fans of Chris Evans, Scarlett Jo... They'll all go see it.

Of course like I said I could be wrong and I don't necessarily disagree with alot of points but I could easily see the Avengers being the summer blockbuster movie if marketed right which I think they will.

Like I said I don't really have facts to support just a gut feeling that people may view the Avengers as a big draw.

And should TDKR be bigger it wouldn't surprise me.

Originally posted by Newjak
Scarlett Jo...