Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z1. Then that doesn't say anything positive about the movie if its only liked because its different to a previous interpretation.
The Movie made over a Billion Dollars at the box office, and was loved by critics and movie goers world-wide. Its just a great franchise which was boosted by both movies awsomeness.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
That gives it no basis to be successful on its own two feet. I would say Hulk 'flopped' because superheroes with transformations (like Hulk) are confusing to make work on film. Do we give Hulk more time or Banner? Look at Fantastic Four, they had to make up excuses to allow Mike Chiklis to act as himself for a bit.
Hey Incredible Hulk was a damn good movie.. The transformation thing is whats always worked with Hulk.. There was a lot of hype for the first Ang Lee movie but it was just a big disappointment, so the hype was lost then for the Edward Norton Hulk.
Oh and as for Fantastic Four franchise gone wrong, there were a lot of problems with those movies.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
2. By using all the elements I mentioned from the previous franchise. Nothing original to his own interpretation except how he fleshed his particular path to the story but the components remained the same. From the TDK trailer alone you can see he blatantly copies a sequence from '89. That doesn't make him creative at all, especially as we know his policy of dumbing down the fantastical elements of Batman.
Lol Most Movie Goers would disagree. But hey to each his own. I Loved Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk, and I liked Thor too, so I hope Avengers is great, but I just dnt realistically see it competing on Dark Knight's level.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The Movie made over a Billion Dollars at the box office, and was loved by critics and movie goers world-wide. Its just a great franchise which was boosted by both movies awsomeness.Hey Incredible Hulk was a damn good movie.. The transformation thing is whats always worked with Hulk.. There was a lot of hype for the first Ang Lee movie but it was just a big disappointment, so the hype was lost then for the Edward Norton Hulk.
Oh and as for Fantastic Four franchise gone wrong, there were a lot of problems with those movies.
Lol Most Movie Goers would disagree. But hey to each his own. I Loved Iron Man and the Incredible Hulk, and I liked Thor too, so I hope Avengers is great, but I just dnt realistically see it competing on Dark Knight's level.
1. Then why is the Batman reboot happening so soon after TDKR? For fun? And your second sentence is also an opinion, something which you called me out for.
2. I never said IH was a bad movie, I enjoyed it but it does have the problem of flipping between Banner and Hulk and with actor ego it can not be all equal screen time. Why do think they hired Ruffalo for Avengers? Because Norton probably wouldn't have enjoyed being essentially less than a bit part in Avengers.
3. Then they would be wrong, it's a complete fact that he (Nolan) has used the same elements from the previous franchise - nothing new. And I think with a film like Avengers who are essentially showcasing 4 top superheroes, and others, are going to be bringing in more individual fanbases together in one place than just Batman on his own. A Batman that has in essence been castrated conceptually with all of his talents and interesting villains in the comics downplayed in this franchise.
Avengers is still essentially a comic book film despite how epic the scale and roster is. Just that.
The Dark Knight Rises is coming off arguably the greatest sequel ever and is honestly a film that attracts a broader audience. Adults who aren't into comics as much will see it, hardcore comic fans will definately see it, as well as kids.
Avengers will definately get 2/3 of those but I doubt regular movie goers will take a shot at Avengers over a Nolan directed Batman film. Not to mention, this is the conclusion to a series so Batman has that going for itself.
Avengers could very well become the most profited Marvel movie. But I still think Batman is bound to make more opening day, weekend, and overall with it being the better movie and all among other things.
Both will be awesome no doubt.
Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
1. Then why is the Batman reboot happening so soon after TDKR? For fun? And your second sentence is also an opinion, something which you called me out for.
Because Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale are not making anymore, and its too huge a movie franchise now to just let go.
Also Nolan said his Batman is in his own Universe with no other superheroes, so a reboot of Batman will probably tie in to an eventual Justice League movie.
But I personally do think its a mistake to reboot the franchise again so quickly.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale are not making anymore, and its too huge a movie franchise now to just let go.Also Nolan said his Batman is in his own Universe with no other superheroes, so a reboot of Batman will probably tie in to an eventual Justice League movie.
But I personally do think its a mistake to reboot the franchise again so quickly.
I agree, Batman is a huge draw and that is probably the main reason, along with a possible Justice League movie but they will have to display the new Batman with a more comic-oriented look and feel. This means they will have to come up with something truly new if they want to differentiate itself from previous interpretations.
I wouldn't say a mistake because some people do want a different look but I will say it was crass of WB to bring out the news of a reboot before TDKR has even been released and absorbed by fans.
Finally, it was a pleasure debating with you, I hope you enjoy TDKR when it comes out 🙂 .
Originally posted by jinXed by JaNxLol, FOR SURE?
Dark knight will be a better movie for sure, but avengers will win the numbers game...,easily,IMO.
No, that is not certain. Unless you've seen both already and know the outcome. TDKR is going to have to work against the 3rd movie syndrome (Spidey 3, X-men 3, Superman 3, Batman Forever....need I go on?).
Whereas Avengers has been building up for years and people cannot wait to see how it's going to play out.
Marvel Studios really hasn't let me down so far, so to say that one will definitely be the better movie at this point is foolish.
"Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance" will do better than both 🙂.
Just kidding xD.
I doubt the difference between these movies will be much. But no matter which movie makes more money, both will probably be the highest-grossing films of their respective comic industry. TDKR will be DC's highest-grossing film and Avengers will be Marvel's highest-grossing film. Both movies have huge potential to rise above the other one. From the way I see it, the chance of TDKR doing better than Avengers is 50/50 and same thing can be said for Avengers. We'll just have to wait and see.
However, I am interested to see which movie does better than the other one critically wise and gets better reception. This is going to be the biggest movie battle that Marvel and DC had so far. I have a feeling that there will be tons of debates on forums like these over which movie is superior and to an extent, there might be a few fanboy wars (especially on YouTube). But I am looking forward to both movies and I think both movies will be great, regardless of which one is better than the other. But poor Spider-Man 🙁 . He stands no chance next year.
I also want to point out something. As I said earlier, both movies have equal potential to top the other one at the box office and reception wise. Isn't it interesting how Batman ALONE is able to keep up with the Avengers at the box office? You have an entire team of superheroes from Marvel having to compete against ONE superhero from DC and this one character will be an actual challenge for them at the box office. The conclusion is: Batman alone is able to be on par with the 7 of Marvel's most popular characters at the same time. This just speaks volumes of how epic of a character Batman is 😄 .
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
TDKR is going to have to work against the 3rd movie syndrome (Spidey 3, X-men 3, Superman 3, Batman Forever....need I go on?)
I don't think TDKR will have problems due to it being a third movie. You have to keep in mind that not only Chris Nolan hasn't made a bad movie so far (every single movie he made was well received critically wise; I know that there are a few people out there that dislike some of his movies but for every movie he made, the majority of his audience liked it) but he has also said that he refuses to do another Batman movie unless it is equally as good as TDK or better. So if this movie is bad or mediocre/average, it wouldn't have been made in the first place. In the worst case scenario, TDKR will be a great movie but just not as good as TDK. And that is the WORST case scenario. In the best, it will take TDK's spot as the best comic book movie and/or be on par with Avengers or even better.
Also keep in mind that every third movie failed due to the studio intervening with the director's vision and plan or due to a big change occuring in the franchise. Here are some examples:
1) Spider-Man 3 sucked because Sony did not let Raimi do what he wanted to do and forced him to do Venom.
2) X-Men 3 sucked because the director left/was replaced.
3) Superman 3 sucked because the director left.
4) Batman Forever did a complete change in everything in the franchise (tone, character personalities, etc.) because the first director left.
So unless Warner Bros intervened with anything in Nolan's plans and didn't let him do what he wanted to do (which we know didn't happen), then I doubt TDKR will suffer from the 3rd movie syndrome.
Originally posted by spidermanrocksWhile likely, that is not certain yet. Neither movie is out and therefore box office "Facts" are speculation at best.
Isn't it interesting how Batman ALONE is able to keep up with the Avengers at the box office?
You have an entire team of superheroes from Marvel having to compete against ONE superhero from DC and this one character will be an actual challenge for them at the box office.That is because almost all of Marvel's movies lately have
DC's ONLY trick right now is Batman. That's it. Superman has been MIA, Green Lantern was a bomb both critically and financially...they don't have anything BUT Batman.
The conclusion is: Batman alone is able to be on par with the 7 of Marvel's most popular characters at the same time.Actually, Spider-man's first 3 movies (Raimi films) made 2.5 Billion dollars. In 3 movies. Batman's entire FRANCHISE (6 films) has made 2.6 Billion. Double Spidey's numbers and you're at 5 Billion. That puts Spider-man above Batman bud.
This just speaks volumes of how epic of a character Batman is.No, it speaks volumes of how epic Christopher Nolan is. Batman is awesome, don't get me wrong. But all the credit in the world for the new Bats' success goes to Nolan's amazing knack for making movie masterpieces.
Originally posted by spidermanrocks
4) Batman Forever did a complete change in everything in the franchise (tone, character personalities, etc.) because the first director left.
I could say the same thing about Batman Returns, which is very different tonally from '89. Or TDK being said to be less theatrical and starker than Begins.
More than that Forever did not change anything in the franchise to a great degree. The tone did get lighter and more flamboyant but still had many moments when it was played serious and introspective; especially the Bruce/Dick/Alfred scenes and the various set-pieces throughout the movie. '89 and Returns both had silly and outrageous things in them and they don't garner as much criticism that Forever gets.
People say Nicholsons' Joker was reminiscent of Romero and that's okay; then Carrey does a Riddler reminiscent of Gorshin and that's not okay. De Vito does a horribly different Penguin and it's overlooked but Tommy Lee Jones is hated for doing a 'different' Two-Face (when much of the film he plays it straight and only descends into goofy mode in a few scenes).
Originally posted by Prep-ManPhenomenal? Kevin Costner is beyond his prime. Henry Cavil is alright. And alot of his credibility is coming from a movie that's not even out yet (Immortals). Amy Adams is hot, but phenomenal? Really, it's a solid cast. But nothing more.
They pushed back Man of Steel until 2013, but so far has a phenomenal cast of stars.
This feels like Superman Returns to me. Movie in development forever with a solid cast. We'll see if it can overcome the "Superman hasn't had a good movie since Superman 2" syndrome.
Originally posted by Darth Martin
You can't say for sure that TDKR will perform better than TDK. This one doesn't have Ledger's death going for it, or Joker for that matter.
Ledger's death was only responsible for the opening weekend and the first week or two after that. That is it. From that point on, the movie's greatness was responsible for the rest. I don't remember anyone talking about how great the movie is because it was Ledger's last performance. Everyone just talked about how great the movie is. Period. I even know people that have seen The Dark Knight in theatres 2 or 3 times (some even more). People wouldn't watch the same movie in theatres more than once just because an actor died. They saw it many times in theatres because it was a phenomenal film. I rewatched the movie 2 months after it came out (in theatres). And the theatre was still packed with people (almost completely). And even I saw it for a second time, I STILL heard people that they wanted to see it (if they haven't seen it) or see it again (if they did). From the moment the first trailer (not teaser; trailer) came out, everyone knew that that was the movie to see. And it was so popular that it was actually re-released in theatres in January 2009 here in Ontario (I don't know about US or other states in Canada). And going back to Ledger as an actor, he wasn't that famous of an actor before TDK. I'm not saying that he was an unknown but at the same time, he wasn't a well-known actor capable of attracting a large audience either. He was a B-list actor.
I doubt Ledger's death was responsible for all of that. Was he ONE of the main reasons to why made all that money? Of course. But was his death THE reason to why the movie did well? No. That is complete bullcrap. TDK had a gross of a bit over a billion dollars. If Ledger wouldn't have died, it would have made about $100-250 million less than it actually did IMO. Not that big of a difference.
TDKR has The Dark Knight and Inception going for it, which will help the movie a lot. Both movies were ridiculously loved by the audience. People (both comic book fans and non-comic fans) know that TDKR will be by the same creators of TDK and Inception and will obviously walk in theatres next summer expecting the same level of quality to be presented again. In the worst case scenario, TDKR will make a bit less than TDK.