Originally posted by h1a8
This is not the way to debate. This is the way to act like a spoiled brat child who doesn't have an argument but rather repeats the same thing as if it destroys the other's argument.Clearly punching shy of the speed of light yields a harder punch than twice the speed of light. But this has nothing to do with punching faster than light and then less than the speed of light right before impact.
Also punching far faster than the speed of light can yield the same power as punching just under the speed of light.
Like ct said, PIS and CIS plays a role in comics. Hulk hitting Spider-man and Spidey being ok doesn't mean that Hulk hits very weak. It simply means that Hulk limited his punch due to CIS or it was simply PIS.
No, this is going by what the comics show, IE Zoom blitzing lowers the power level of his attacks....he's trading quality for quantity
He obviously has an increase with damage due to "speed". He also apparently bottom outs with too much speed. I can hit hard with a steady fist which I throw at a moderate speed. I can hit harder if I throw the punch faster. If I try to swing my fist as fast as possible, multiple times, my striking power is going to take a dive. It doesn't strike me as odd that Zoom can either go for a powerful single strikes or a massive blitz ranging in the millions. If he chooses the single steady blows, he outputs damage in the Superman level, provided he measures them and doesn't attempt to string a blitz bordering in the millions or higher. If he does tries to do said blitz, apparently his stopping power is reduced in favor of landing more hits.
Arbitrarily trying to pick and choose what counts as PIS/CIS while holding Zoom to pseudo real life physics and logic while grossly extrapolating and throwing out numbers which have not been used or even hinted at in the comics has turned this thread into a joke. Zoom apparently deals damage on par with abstract beings based on a ridiculous formula that's not even supported by the comics.
And no one supporting Zoom - outside of h1 - wants to outright say something along the lines of "Yes, Zoom beats Odin 10/10 easily as well as being able to face off against beings such as Galactus, Celestials, and others with his multiple galaxy force punches." At least h1 commits to his viewpoint, no matter how outright laughable and inaccurate it is based on the comics. But hardly anyone else pulling for Zoom is saying that, likely because they don't want to be lumped in with h1 or still have some credibility they wish to save on the forums.
Seriously, if you think Zoom wins and by such a massive margin by unleashing an incalculable series of punches with immeasurable strength, you may as well go balls to the walls with it.
Originally posted by Silent MasterAgain that is not what comics is showing. It's impossible to punch faster and hit less hard unless we are talking about relativity. Quality and quantity doesn't relate to punching power, only speed and mass does.
No, this is going by what the comics show, IE Zoom blitzing lowers the power level of his attacks....he's trading quality for quantity
Taking relativity out of it then
The fact that Zoom's million punches didn't do anything means that each punch was thrown at less speed than one of his Superman level punches or it was simply PIS.
Zoom hitting WW with a Superman level punch could have been far faster than each punch thrown at PG, thus CIS is the reason why Zoom chose not to throw each punch faster to reach that of Superman level.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He obviously has an increase with damage due to "speed". He also apparently bottom outs with too much speed. I can hit hard with a steady fist which I throw at a moderate speed. I can hit harder if I throw the punch faster. If I try to swing my fist as fast as possible, multiple times, my striking power is going to take a dive. It doesn't strike me as odd that Zoom can either go for a powerful single strikes or a massive blitz ranging in the millions. If he chooses the single steady blows, he outputs damage in the Superman level, provided he measures them and doesn't attempt to string a blitz bordering in the millions or higher. If he does tries to do said blitz, apparently his stopping power is reduced in favor of landing more hits.Arbitrarily trying to pick and choose what counts as PIS/CIS while holding Zoom to pseudo real life physics and logic while grossly extrapolating and throwing out numbers which have not been used or even hinted at in the comics has turned this thread into a joke. Zoom apparently deals damage on par with abstract beings based on a ridiculous formula that's not even supported by the comics.
And no one supporting Zoom - outside of h1 - wants to outright say something along the lines of "Yes, Zoom beats Odin 10/10 easily as well as being able to face off against beings such as Galactus, Celestials, and others with his multiple galaxy force punches." At least h1 commits to his viewpoint, no matter how outright laughable and inaccurate it is based on the comics. But hardly anyone else pulling for Zoom is saying that, likely because they don't want to be lumped in with h1 or still have some credibility they wish to save on the forums.
Seriously, if you think Zoom wins and by such a massive margin by unleashing an incalculable series of punches with immeasurable strength, you may as well go balls to the walls with it.
This should put the argument at rest. Zoom punches Odin at a speed far faster than light and then when his fist is a hair away from Odin he slows it to just shy of the speed of light killing or koing Odin in one punch.
Zoom doesn't have Superspeed but control of time. The fact that he threw millions of punches doesn't mean anything but he slowed time to that of him being able to throw millions of punches.
Originally posted by h1a8
Again that is not what comics is showing. It's impossible to punch faster and hit less hard unless we are talking about relativity. Quality and quantity doesn't relate to punching power, only speed and mass does.Taking relativity out of it then
The fact that Zoom's million punches didn't do anything means that each punch was thrown at less speed than one of his Superman level punches or it was simply PIS.Zoom hitting WW with a Superman level punch could have been far faster than each punch thrown at PG, thus CIS is the reason why Zoom chose not to throw each punch faster to reach that of Superman level.
No, the comic showed that Zoom's single attacks had more power than his blitz attacks, he trades quality and quantity.
Originally posted by h1a8
This should put the argument at rest. Zoom punches Odin at a speed far faster than light and then when his fist is a hair away from Odin he slows it to just shy of the speed of light killing or koing Odin in one punch.
And when Zoom slows down his punch to just shy of the speed of light, Odin wastes him as Odin battled across the universe at speeds shitting on the speed of light.
Originally posted by h1a8Based off of Zoom doing this to who in a comic ? You go from one unbackable claim to another and never have a shred of proof to back you up. This is why no one takes you seriously you just make things up and discount what you want to further showing there's no rhyme or reason to your methods.
This should put the argument at rest. Zoom punches Odin at a speed far faster than light and then when his fist is a hair away from Odin he slows it to just shy of the speed of light killing or koing Odin in one punch.
Odin wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Based off of Zoom doing this to who in a comic ? You go from one unbackable claim to another and never have a shred of proof to back you up. This is why no one takes you seriously you just make things up and discount what you want to further showing there's no rhyme or reason to your methods.Odin wins.
You must can't read or didn't bother reading. I did back up my claim.
Comics explains how the IMP works. Comics SHOW that punching fast means punching with more power. Otherwise what would explain how Zoom is shown to punch at Superman level in the first place?
Originally posted by h1a8You must can't read......well done. That makes perfect sense in your world doesn't it ?
You must can't read or didn't bother reading. I did back up my claim.
Comics explains how the IMP works. Comics SHOW that punching fast means punching with more power. Otherwise what would explain how Zoom is shown to punch at Superman level in the first place?
Zoom can punch at superman level with one punch but with a million punches it wasn't even powerful enough to defeat Powergirl so the the comics don't back up your assertions that's well assuming you read comics when you don't.
Can you back up your claim ? Also what is one superman level punch here and there going to do to Odin ?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He obviously has an increase with damage due to "speed". He also apparently bottom outs with too much speed. I can hit hard with a steady fist which I throw at a moderate speed. I can hit harder if I throw the punch faster. If I try to swing my fist as fast as possible, multiple times, my striking power is going to take a dive. It doesn't strike me as odd that Zoom can either go for a powerful single strikes or a massive blitz ranging in the millions. If he chooses the single steady blows, he outputs damage in the Superman level, provided he measures them and doesn't attempt to string a blitz bordering in the millions or higher. If he does tries to do said blitz, apparently his stopping power is reduced in favor of landing more hits.Arbitrarily trying to pick and choose what counts as PIS/CIS while holding Zoom to pseudo real life physics and logic while grossly extrapolating and throwing out numbers which have not been used or even hinted at in the comics has turned this thread into a joke. Zoom apparently deals damage on par with abstract beings based on a ridiculous formula that's not even supported by the comics.
And no one supporting Zoom - outside of h1 - wants to outright say something along the lines of "Yes, Zoom beats Odin 10/10 easily as well as being able to face off against beings such as Galactus, Celestials, and others with his multiple galaxy force punches." At least h1 commits to his viewpoint, no matter how outright laughable and inaccurate it is based on the comics. But hardly anyone else pulling for Zoom is saying that, likely because they don't want to be lumped in with h1 or still have some credibility they wish to save on the forums.
Seriously, if you think Zoom wins and by such a massive margin by unleashing an incalculable series of punches with immeasurable strength, you may as well go balls to the walls with it.
Zooms beaten off Superman on more then one occasion, having way more effect then he did on Power Girl.
And agreed, there's no supporting Zoom against Odin here.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not the same. At all, really.
It is, if we're using results based logic.
Zoom fails to KO powergirl with a blitz, therefore it proves his punches get substantially weaker the faster he throws them.
Spiderman succeeds in KOing Firelord with a blitz, therefore it proves his punches get stronger the faster he throws them.
It's bad logic either way.
Seriously, if the only basis for any speedsters punches weakening is "failure to defeat/affect X with a blitz" when it's proven a single punch has enough power to cause MORE damage then that blitz, you may as well start arguing Spidey can tank class 100 blows or Superman simply loses his speed at various points every time he gets tagged by a non speedster because he has to "engage it" or some crap... A lot of hokey stuff happens in comics.
Originally posted by cdtm
It is, if we're using results based logic.Zoom fails to KO powergirl with a blitz, therefore it proves his punches get substantially weaker the faster he throws them.
Spiderman succeeds in KOing Firelord with a blitz, therefore it proves his punches get stronger the faster he throws them.
It's bad logic either way.
Seriously, if the only basis for any speedsters punches weakening is "failure to defeat/affect X with a blitz" when it's proven a single punch has enough power to cause MORE damage then that blitz, you may as well start arguing Spidey can tank class 100 blows or Superman simply loses his speed at various points every time he gets tagged by a non speedster because he has to "engage it" or some crap... A lot of hokey stuff happens in comics.
The difference is that there are dozens if not hundreds of examples that show that Spider-man vs Firelord was PIS....do you have dozens if not hundreds of examples that show Zoom vs Powergirl was PIS?
Originally posted by Silent Master
The difference is that there are dozens if not hundreds of examples that show that Spider-man vs Firelord was PIS....do you have dozens if not hundreds of examples that show Zoom vs Powergirl was PIS?
Logic. Punches simply don't weaken that much, unless someones at the edge of exhaustion.
You'd need to prove there's some basis for Zooms punches weakening to abnormal levels after the first punch beyond "failed to harm/ko", as usually when that kind of thing happens with high end bricks, it's presumed PIS.
Originally posted by cdtm
Logic. Punches simply don't weaken that much, unless someones at the edge of exhaustion.You'd need to prove there's some basis for Zooms punches weakening to abnormal levels after the first punch beyond "failed to harm/ko", as usually when that kind of thing happens with high end bricks, it's presumed PIS.
Logic?
This is a debate about people with superpowers, the only logic that applies is comic logic....and comic logic tells us that Zoom blitzing lowers the power of his punches.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Logic?This is a debate about people with superpowers, the only logic that applies is comic logic....and comic logic tells us that Zoom blitzing lowers the power of his punches.
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If you are blitzing punches then you arent getting your weight behind them...
Thus you are only striking with a small fraction of the force that you could strike with if you loaded them up; got your weight behind each punch...
Originally posted by quanchi112
You must can't read......well done. That makes perfect sense in your world doesn't it ?Zoom can punch at superman level with one punch but with a million punches it wasn't even powerful enough to defeat Powergirl so the the comics don't back up your assertions that's well assuming you read comics when you don't.
Can you back up your claim ? Also what is one superman level punch here and there going to do to Odin ?
You guys are using faulty reasoning. You conclude that since Zoom is seen throwing millions of punches and doing nothing whereas him throwing one punch is doing a lot automatically means that throwing millions of punches results in lesser power.
The conclusion doesn't follow. Why?
Because of PIS and CIS.
Do you think the writer believed that if Zoom punched only once he would have done something better? NO! In his mind Zoom couldn't hurt PG no matter how he punched. His view is that speedsters are fast but not very strong and shouldn't be hurting beings like PowerGirl.
Where the other writer viewed a speedster as being able to do Superman level damage or beyond based off their speed. And other writer's explain that Speedsters can hit with Superman level blows or beyond by relativity theory. Writer's differ in opinion on characters some of the time. That is why we have PIS.
Originally posted by Silent MasterLogic doesn't go out the window just because its comics. Otherwise we wouldn't have the PIS rule now would we.
Logic?This is a debate about people with superpowers, the only logic that applies is comic logic....and comic logic tells us that Zoom blitzing lowers the power of his punches.