At least Flash explains all his stuff with the speed force.
Zoom's explanation is, what, time flowing really slow around him? Doesn't explain how he does half his stuff, like vibration hand through the chest or IMP's, or keeping his hand from shattering all the time..
How about we just declare every Zoom feat except moving fast PIS. 😎
Originally posted by leonidasI missed this part.
no, actually it does NOT follow the steadily increasing mass--at least not as the real world would have it. because his mass would become near infinite and would actually REACH infinity and he wouldn't be able to MOVE. does zoom also have >>>superman strength to move this supposed infinite mass gain around? and no, it does not hold that the SF is what allows this because they are travelling below light speed, AND superman has also achieved it. therefore ANYONE in the dcu should be able to do so.special relativity is most certainly NOT adhered to, therefore any conclusion you can draw from said (real world) theory is false and nonsensical. if you want to ahere to the 'comicbook version' of said theory, that's all well and good, and i can live with that, but ackowledge it as such and with that in mind do not make real world conclusions that are clearly nonsensical, based on the comicbook version of the theory.
real world theory does allow us to pick and choose which parts we can apply. ALL parts are applied, or it is NOT the theory. if it is NOT the actual theory any conclusions drawn based on it are at best abstract speculation NOT based on theory, but based on opinion alone, and at worst delusionary.
No that is wrong, yes others can reach light speed and hit hard, but they also take the negative affects with them, the speed force increases the mass without the negative affects. It is already been stated to be related to the theory of relativity, nothing nonsensical about it. All I said was that he basically increases the mass, without any of the negative affects. Neither Zoom nor Flash's power are triggered by strength or anything of the such. I said the speed force is based on the real world theory and picks and chooses, not that it is what I did. It's a known fact that the speed force is a walking plot device. Are we clear on what I'm saying now?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I missed this part.No that is wrong, yes others can reach light speed and hit hard, but they also take the negative affects with them, the speed force increases the mass without the negative affects. It is already been stated to be related to the theory of relativity, nothing nonsensical about it. All I said was that he basically increases the mass, without any of the negative affects. Neither Zoom nor Flash's power are triggered by strength or anything of the such. I said the speed force is based on the real world theory and picks and chooses, not that it is what I did. It's a known fact that the speed force is a walking plot device. Are we clear on what I'm saying now?
"i said the speedforce is based on real world theory." 😐
nope. not clear at all and still nonsensical and will remain so for so long as you somehow try and equate real world theory with what happens in comicbooks and pass it off as "logical". what exactly is the "relationship" between them?
as i said--if you want to subscribe to your supposed 'speedforce' (because flash sure never indicated it was related to the SF--he seemed to state it as s fact of the physical universe) version of quantum theory and special relativity, that's fine. just don't take it to the 'real world' conclusion and expect anyone else to find your conclusions either feasible, theoretical or in any way sensical.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I missed this part.No that is wrong, yes others can reach light speed and hit hard, but they also take the negative affects with them, the speed force
and nope. they can approach 90% c (should we list the characters in dc who can do this? it's rather extensive) and hit with force enough to destroy GALAXIES. THAT is exactly what you are saying. sound feasible to you?
Originally posted by Newjak
Ok then this is what I've been able to extrapolate from this thread.That in order to throw an IMP one must be from DCU and travel a hair below the speed of light.
So basically no one from Marvel/Darkhorse/Image who can travel at the speed light could do an IMP because even if they were fighting a character from DC in the same universe they simply just can not because they are not from DC 😐
I've also heard someone say Zoom is more versatile then Odin.... I'm hoping that was just that one person and not shared by a majority of people in this thread 😐
I've heard Zoom can hit with Superman level punches. The only evidence of this is from a Wonder Woman fight I've never seen, but apparently a blind Wonder Woman's was able to beat him and take those punches.
I've seen numerous other statement s thrown out the window when such statements did not match what was on panel. From what I've seen if Superman were to hit Wonder Woman like that while she was blind I don't think anyone here would argue her being able to be conscious much less beating him.
That all those punches he threw at a PG who could brace herself and see where the attacks are coming from are the PIS cause Zoom obviously must have been throwing love taps or cause he was going so fast his attacks just didn't have the same oomph
So what I've seen is that Zoom can IMP all he wants as long as he doesn't go above C, he can only throw Superman level punches at C and anything over is either him toying or throwing punches that might as well be a gentle breeze, and that only people from his Universe can do this.
😐
While on the other side is Odin who apparently might as well not be any better than you or me in terms of this fight. Cause apparently he is just going to be sitting back unable to do anything, cause he is limited to the way you and I can perceive the world and hm being Skyfather just doesn't cut it.
Yet he isn't just some regular old featless Skyfather. He is a skyfather that can survive Galaxy traversing and destroying battles. He can rock all of reality. He can from his own power reserve enchant speedsters which he has done before. He even managed to enchant a hammer to be able to go to and from the ends of the Universe in less that 6 seconds. Yet he can not move faster than you and I. 😐
He can stop time and has been shown to do so in the past. He makes Heralds like Silver Surfer his chumps even in his latest showing. Shakes off attacks from people like Thanos who has manhandled beings like Thor and Surfer. Yet he won't be able to take what Zoom can dish out, or being to handle Zoom's time based powers.
He can see space time as solid constructs, and vast distances such as Solar Systems, as as if you and me were standing outside. He can reformulate this to see the universe any may different ways and many different viewpoints. Yet he won't be able to see Zoom at all.
But no ones wants to extrapolate that to its logical conclusion in this match for some reason. A lot of people sit there and act like just because someone mentioned the word attosecond that Odin is exactly like you and me in this fight.
Never mind what he has does in the past proven on panel or the fact logically he could be the exact same as Zoom if he wanted. No apparently the Odin side is just saying he is Skyfather and therefore he wins, and the Zoom side says Odin has no defense cause he is limited to a human mind somehow even though that would ignore everything Odin has been shown to be or able to do.
😬
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterRight, so we ignore him getting beaten by a blindfolded Wonder Woman, but we accept him hitting as hard as Superman like the Gospel... from the same fight... guy got put off by kicked rocks in that fight, but him hitting as hard as Superman makes that like it never happened?
Yea, he might have been stopped, but Wonder Woman isn't beating Flash on the forum, much less Zoom. She stands no chance, so bringing that up would be a low showing. No more than bringing up Flash getting hit by boomerangs.
Something doesn't add up.
Originally posted by Sr J-Biebyeah honestly, that was THE SAME FIGHT. best case for him is he's powerful but tactically he's side by side with rhino
Right, so we ignore him getting beaten by a blindfolded Wonder Woman, but we accept him hitting as hard as Superman like the Gospel... from the same fight... guy got put off by kicked rocks in that fight, but him hitting as hard as Superman makes that like it never happened?Something doesn't add up.
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Right, so we ignore him getting beaten by a blindfolded Wonder Woman, but we accept him hitting as hard as Superman like the Gospel... from the same fight... guy got put off by kicked rocks in that fight, but him hitting as hard as Superman makes that like it never happened?Something doesn't add up.
So one situation is due to PIS/CIS while another is free of that... 🙄
It must be impossible to weigh one against the other
Originally posted by SasuOna
So one situation is due to PIS/CIS while another is free of that... 🙄It must be impossible to weigh one against the other
You still haven't answered my question. Why are you so afraid? Not surprised that a Doctor Strange fan turns out to be nothing but a no good coward. Weaksauce all around.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusBecause you already asked this *same* question in my other thread and it's just going to be some long, drawn out, pointless comparison to Odin that is unnecessary.
Why are you so afraid of answering simple questions?
Originally posted by leonidasNothing nonsenical about it, it's just the fact that you don't like it. The theory of relativity does use parts of real world theory with the SF, but the SF picks and chooses parts of physics to ignore. Whether or not you like it is irrelevant.
"i said the speedforce is based on real world theory." 😐nope. not clear at all and still nonsensical and will remain so for so long as you somehow try and equate real world theory with what happens in comicbooks and pass it off as "logical". what exactly is the "relationship" between them?
as i said--if you want to subscribe to your supposed 'speedforce' (because flash sure never indicated it was related to the SF--he seemed to state it as s fact of the physical universe) version of quantum theory and special relativity, that's fine. just don't take it to the 'real world' conclusion and expect anyone else to find your conclusions either feasible, theoretical or in any way sensical.
Originally posted by leonidasNo it isn't. I was saying approaching beyond light their mass moves towards infinity (Infinite mass punch) and has the "potential" to do so in theory, never said it was a feasible option in a match. So far it has been compared to a white dwarf star, and that is fine to use. It was never stated as a max, so you assigning one to it when there was none in the first place makes no sense. I didn't say they go around punching with galaxy level power on a regular basis.
and nope. they can approach 90% c (should we list the characters in dc who can do this? it's rather extensive) and hit with force enough to destroy GALAXIES. THAT is exactly what you are saying. sound feasible to you?
Originally posted by Sr J-BiebHe's also taken on entire teams before and been so fast that Superman nor an amped Flash can keep up with him, picking low feats out of all of them doesn't really help your argument. He hits on the level of Flash (and harder) and Flash hits on a high herald level. Does Zoom have the number of showings of Flash and Superman? No, but he is definitely more powerful and they don't do much other than inconvenience him in a match where he isn't trying to destroy them.
Right, so we ignore him getting beaten by a blindfolded Wonder Woman, but we accept him hitting as hard as Superman like the Gospel... from the same fight... guy got put off by kicked rocks in that fight, but him hitting as hard as Superman makes that like it never happened?Something doesn't add up.
In this match there *is* no CIS which makes a big difference. So the lowballing is irrelevant.
Odin hasn't had any arguments brought on his end other than "he's Odin". I think he has the potential to lose. Him losing the majority is not something I nor Galan (as far as I know) has said.