Silver Surfer & Thanos vs Flash & Zoom

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'd go by the artwork and the fact that he saved the entire city at the same time. But even then it would be better to classify it (if you disagreed with it) as being something akin to Logan slicing Thanos with the power gem. I wouldn't say it was the other way around, though, just me.

Not at all, because if he was going under light speed or even at light speed he wouldn't have saved them. Unless the DC speed of light is 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

I'd rather classify it as a crazy feat myself. Either way he has better feats. As we've hashed. Well the artwork and the narration said that was what he did. The nuke had hit the ground during the feat. Which is why I say that he didn't do it at the under lightspeed. Didn't the writer rule it as that.

Anyway, others have pointed out that you're assuming that only the specifically quantified speed must have been incorrect. Why not the specifically quantified number of people involved? Or the specifically quantified timing of the explosion? Or the specifically quantified distance they were set down away from the explosion? Or the specifically quantified # of people Flash was actually carrying per trip?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'd go by the artwork and the fact that he saved the entire city at the same time. But even then it would be better to classify it (if you disagreed with it) as being something akin to Logan slicing Thanos with the power gem. I wouldn't say it was the other way around, though, just me.

Not at all, because if he was going under light speed or even at light speed he wouldn't have saved them. Unless the DC speed of light is 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

I'd rather classify it as a crazy feat myself. Either way he has better feats. As we've hashed. Well the artwork and the narration said that was what he did. The nuke had hit the ground during the feat. Which is why I say that he didn't do it at the under lightspeed. Didn't the writer rule it as that.

It's right there on panel that he saved that amount of people in that amount of time, not more not less. Actions>sttaements. The writer intended to make him save the city and he did.

But a debate has to have some consistency. If there is no consistency then the speed of light is 2.5 quntillion miles per second. I was saying it would make sense if you thought it was a high showing (he's had crazier), but saying it isn't a feat just because you prefer the other is another thing entirely. If you think it is an absurd feat that's fine. I however believe in actions>words.

Besides the number was waaaaaaaaaaay off. It was obvious. It wasn't like it was off just somewhat or even 2x. 13 trillion times.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can't even tell if you answered my [b](i) scenario. Make no mistake, I've got several more.

Anyway, others have pointed out that you're assuming that only the specifically quantified speed must have been incorrect. Why not the specifically quantified number of people involved? Or the specifically quantified timing of the explosion? Or the specifically quantified distance they were set down away from the explosion? Or the specifically quantified # of people Flash was actually carrying per trip? [/B]

Or... we could say lightspeed is 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

Or we could say he was going under lightspeed.

Originally posted by Mindset
Or we could say he was going under lightspeed.

No, at 150mph.

Come at me.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
[B]It's right there on panel that he saved that amount of people in that amount of time, not more not less.

Actions>sttaements.

The writer intended to make him save the city and he did.

But a debate has to have some consistency. If there is no consistency then the speed of light is 2.5 quntillion miles per second. I was saying it would make sense if you thought it was a high showing (he's had crazier), but saying it isn't a feat just because you prefer the other is another thing entirely.

If you think it is an absurd feat that's fine. I however believe in actions>words.

Besides the number was waaaaaaaaaaay off. It was obvious. It wasn't like it was off just somewhat or even 2x. 13 trillion times.

Well the illustration and the evidence leans to the fact that the city was saved. Flash carrying one or two people per trip is reasonable for his power. The art had the explosion taking place. So the evidence leans towards that IMO.

the caption gives the distance between the island and the beach - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the number of people saved - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the number of people carried per trip - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the the lapse of time - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the speed - why is this to be taken as false like you do?

Or... we could say lightspeed is 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well the illustration and the evidence leans to the fact that the city was saved. Flash carrying one or two people per trip is reasonable for his power. The art had the explosion taking place. So the evidence leans towards that IMO.

One (or several) of the quantifications and their accompanying illustrations has to be incorrect. They can't all be correct.

It says he was going light speed and he looks like he was going light speed. That's what you choose to dismiss. I'll choose to dismiss the population stated and how many people it looked like were saved.

In the end, I don't believe my choice is any more arbitrary than your's. And should that be the case, the feat is, by its nature, both questionable and circumstantial. So forgive me if I find citations to this feat (taken to their utterly highest possible limit) as anything else other than dubious.

Of course, that's assuming honesty on all sides, all things considered equal. Had my scenario questions been entertained (and they haven't in the slightest), I might have started chipping away at assumptions of credibility in the first place.

Thanos blitz both Flash and Zoom.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
By that same token, the illustration of Flash's speed doesn't look anything like I would imagine someone going 13 trillion times light speed. At all.

One (or several) of the quantifications and their accompanying illustrations has to be incorrect. They can't all be correct.

It says he was going light speed and he looks like he was going light speed. That's what you choose to dismiss. I'll choose to dismiss the population stated and how many people it looked like were saved.

In the end, I don't believe my choice is any more arbitrary than your's. And should that be the case, the feat is, by its nature, both questionable and circumstantial. So forgive me if I find citations to this feat (taken to their utterly highest possible limit) as anything else other than dubious.

Of course, that's assuming honesty on all sides, all things considered equal. Had my scenario questions been entertained (and they haven't in the slightest), I might have started chipping away at assumptions of credibility in the first place.

Originally posted by 753
which is fine really. it's just that he did it under lightspeed lol no

The fact that you can't comprehend math over a very basic level doesn't make anything invalid. No more than Superman tugging a planet and the narration saying that he only lifted 5 lbs would count. It just doesn't make sense. Common sense and logic would dictate. There have been many times in comics where the actions have gone over the statements and people take the action. So stop choosing what benefits you because you aren't able to do math over a certain level.

Who do we take in that instance since the numbers contradict the writer? I choose the numbers, and so would anybody who isn't that lazy and can count.

If I pick up a 50 lb dumbell and tell you I'm lifting 10 lbs, what would be more valid?

If Superman held up two criminals and the panel said he only held up one, you wouldn't accept what the panel said would you? This crap is annoying on the forum. Everytime something is more complex than what a reader wants to divulge in, it becomes invalid. "Science doesn't count" "This is a comic book". Yet it mattes when you want it to.

"Comics have no consistency."

If that is the case then light speed is 2.5 quintillion miles per second. Or you could say it is an extreme feat.

Originally posted by 753
that's right, the writer inteded him to save the city under lightspeed and that is exactly what he did.
you are the one that prefers an absurd interpretation of events that is explicitly denied on panel. he was moving under lightspeed, how much clearer can it get?
word of the author on panel> fanmade nonsensical mathematical extrapolation produced for forum debates
your point?

The writer intended on him saving the city in a short amount of time. As the nuke hit the ground which was on panel. Something that could not have happened.

It isn't an absurd interpretation, your mind is just incapable of comprehending the math. Let me help you. I used multiplication and division to come up with the result, try it sometime. He rescued those people in that time. Stop picking and choosing and then calling others out on it. Call it PIS if you want.

It is good that the word of the author on panel AND the artwork show him rescuing a city in a short amount of time while the nuke hit.

Originally posted by 753
nothing supports the idea that any of the variables involved in the feat are truer than the others, I remember having this exact argument with you months ago.

the caption gives the distance between the island and the beach - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the number of people saved - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the number of people carried per trip - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the the lapse of time - why is this to be taken as true?

the caption gives the speed - why is this to be taken as false like you do?
or we could accept narration and get on with our lives

Why is the speed to be taken as true and all of the other evidence that made the feat to be taken as false? Because it is more convenient?

The caption gives the speed and distance traveled. Since the writer is god then in his world light speed= 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

It's obvious the writer made a miscalculation anyways.

Originally posted by Mindset
No, at 150mph.

Come at me.

I don't know why this debate is still going, assuming there are logical, rational persons on both sides.

[center]

We have the art depicting the nuclear bomb going off. We have it clearly depicting that none of its population had left the town, at that moment. We have the number of citizens in that town. We have the distance, at which they're carried by Flash.

At which point I ask you, considering there are half a million people - 532000 to be precise - transported after the bomb had gone off, 35 miles away from the town - these being facts - In what Universe is this not faster than light?

And that's where the debate ends.

It doesn't require calculations. Time is relevant only in judging how many times above lightspeed this feat is performed but fact of the matter is - only a very dumb person would think that this is below lightspeed, I'm afraid to say.[/center]

Funny enough the writer made sure to let us know how fast Flash was ACTUALLY traveling at.. guess what he wanted that to be.. Just below lightspeed. Writers don't have to be math and science majors in order to write comics. He wanted flash to be traveling at that speed.. period.. just because the math doesn't work out.. doesn't change how fast he was writing fast to be traveling. Only an idiot would discount very specific narration by the writer to express how fast he wanted flash to be traveling.

Do we need to have the same discussion in every single Flash thread?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Who do we take in that instance since the numbers contradict the writer? I choose the numbers, and so would anybody who isn't that lazy and can count.

If I pick up a 50 lb dumbell and tell you I'm lifting 10 lbs, what would be more valid?

If Superman held up two criminals and the panel said he only held up one, you wouldn't accept what the panel said would you? This crap is annoying on the forum. Everytime something is more complex than what a reader wants to divulge in, it becomes invalid. "Science doesn't count" "This is a comic book". Yet it mattes when you want it to.

Superman travelling millions of lightyears at the speed of sound? Interesting, right?

Maybe the other people are right, and the speed of sound in DC is at a few milions of times the speed of light in the real world; and the speed of light in DC is in the high end billions of times that from the real world.

That would be great.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Lol yes. He saved an entire city in that time. What gives you the authority over anybody else to choose what suits you and what doesn't? The only reason you don't like it is because you, like many others, weren't able to come up with the mathematics yourself to do it. Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't make it invalid. You have no other argument other than, "I don't like it, therefore it shouldn't count."

the math is too complex? dont make me laugh. your self-proclaimed "brilliance" resides in the fact that you bothered scrutinizing a comic feat on that level, which is superb display of geekiness and feetime (nothign wrong with either), but not of intelect. btw I eat statistical analysis comically more complex than your math on a daily basis.

The fact that you can't comprehend math over a very basic level doesn't make anything invalid.

No more than Superman tugging a planet and the narration saying that he only lifted 5 lbs would count. It just doesn't make sense. Common sense and logic would dictate. There have been many times in comics where the actions have gone over the statements and people take the action. So stop choosing what benefits you because you aren't able to do math over a certain level.

BTW the overhelming majority in this forum disagrees with you on this topic, I guess we're all too dumb to follow the amazing formulas you come up with, h1a82.

Who do we take in that instance since the numbers contradict the writer? I choose the numbers, and so would anybody who isn't that lazy and can count.

SM made a math mistake, now prove that has any relevance to the topic. your dumbass couldn't even find a example in which it was the narrative - which actually SHOWS US THE AUTHOR'S INTENTIONS - that got the numbers wrong...

anyway, we go with author's clear as day intentions and descroption of what happens

If I pick up a 50 lb dumbell and tell you I'm lifting 10 lbs, what would be more valid?

If Superman held up two criminals and the panel said he only held up one, you wouldn't accept what the panel said would you? This crap is annoying on the forum. Everytime something is more complex than what a reader wants to divulge in, it becomes invalid. "Science doesn't count" "This is a comic book". Yet it mattes when you want it to.

"Comics have no consistency."

If that is the case then light speed is 2.5 quintillion miles per second. Or you could say it is an extreme feat.

the idea that this feat be taken seriously as a 13 trillion the speed of light race when narration says it was under lightspeed is ludicrous

The writer intended on him saving the city in a short amount of time. As the nuke hit the ground which was on panel. Something that could not have happened.

It isn't an absurd interpretation, your mind is just incapable of comprehending the math. Let me help you. I used multiplication and division to come up with the result, try it sometime. He rescued those people in that time. Stop picking and choosing and then calling others out on it. Call it PIS if you want.

It is good that the word of the author on panel AND the artwork show him rescuing a city in a short amount of time while the nuke hit.

you call into question the stated speed, but offer no evidence whatsoever for why the stated distance or time ellapsed were accurate. since you dont believe the narration, why should we accept the time and distance were correct?

oh it's all about action and numbers right? so what proves the island was that far away from the beach? what's there on those illustrations that proves it?

what proves flash rescued everyone in that millisecond or whatever it was? show me the proof in the images.

what proves there were those many people there? where are they all shown on panel? can we count them? I say the flash only saved 100 people how is that?

Why is the speed to be taken as true and all of the other evidence that made the feat to be taken as false? Because it is more convenient?

The caption gives the speed and distance traveled. Since the writer is god then in his world light speed= 2.5 quintillion miles per second.

It's obvious the writer made a miscalculation anyways.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Who do we take in that instance since the numbers contradict the writer? I choose the numbers, and so would anybody who isn't that lazy and can count.

If I pick up a 50 lb dumbell and tell you I'm lifting 10 lbs, what would be more valid?

^ 👆

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Well as I said, it would be ok to just disregard the feat or say it is "PIS" or something of the sort. Either way he has more powerful feats. But based on panel and feat vs "writer miscalc" I'll take the feats. People disregarding it because "the math is complex" is being over the top. If this were something simpler like Superman holding two thugs and saying he was holding one, this wouldn't be an issue.

From the plain presentation of the comic to a casual reader, that's almost assuredly the wrong one to eliminate.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I don't know why this debate is still going, assuming there are logical, rational persons on both sides.

[center]

We have the art depicting the nuclear bomb going off. We have it clearly depicting that none of its population had left the town, at that moment. We have the number of citizens in that town. We have the distance, at which they're carried by Flash.

At which point I ask you, considering there are half a million people - 532000 to be precise - transported after the bomb had gone off, 35 miles away from the town - these being facts - In what Universe is this not faster than light?

And that's where the debate ends.

It doesn't require calculations. [b]Time is relevant only in judging how many times above lightspeed this feat is performed but fact of the matter is - only a very dumb person would think that this is below lightspeed, I'm afraid to say.[/center] [/B]

Agreed.

I get the impression that something like speed-stealing is treated as an abstract or absolute. It's the impression I get from Wolverine's adamantium claws: they can 'virtually cut through anything'.

If this is how speed-stealing is treated (ie, nothing can resist), then Flash and Zoom win.

Now if this is not the case, and overall power levels matter -- eg, Thanos' "conventional" energy deployment is just simply too strong for Flash and Zoom to affect -- then I see Team 1 taking this.